Potential New Forum Rule

[surferfb]

Has MacRumors ever considered adding, for lack of a better term, a "don't be a d*ck" rule? Honestly, I'm probably guilty of violating such a rule in the past, but there are recently some posts that aren't apparently rule breaking, but don't exactly foster good discussion and community. For example, this recent post replying to someone who said they weren't interested in a foldable phone:

Understand that maybe such a rule is a little too nebulous or "in the eye of the beholder", or maybe violations are mostly covered by other rules, or would add too much mod workload, but thought it was worth raising.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I support this wholeheartedly
There are lots of good examples of various forums over the years having policies like this.

Here's one such thread from 19 years ago


The fundamental rule of engagement in human interaction is don't be a d***. But a lot of people have trouble applying this rule, so in this topic we list examples of how to be a d*** and how not to be a d***.

D*** says: "What the hell does this have to do with this topic?"

Jane says: "Moderator, Could you split these posts off into this other forum?"

If you feel you know D*** from Jane, feel free to suggest other examples.

 

[MBAir2010]

Nice idea!
there were many post i perviously launched without a reply
which was about a person experience with a 10 year old macbook
that should have ben moved to the scrap heap.
perhaps if one launches a post like that or one were they are promoting being a d*ck
they should not fester a day or an hour here.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Related to post #2 above, I'll give a more local example

Jane says: "I really wish Apple would have some sort of new small phone option in the lineup still"

D*** says: "Go buy an Android if you don't like it"

I would also agree with @surferfb above in saying that, I'm absolutely positive that every one of us has been guilty of such behavior on here.

Having a "don't be a d***" rule, however, would really help us all course correct.

Without such rules, inevitably, the behavior overall, on all sides of any issue, ends up degrading to the lowest point allowed by the rules.

 

[sman789]

It's always best to report a post if you think it could be violating the rules.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Just moments ago, we got a real world example posted here on MR

This is a great example of the tone and vibe of what a rule like "don't be a d***" would perhaps address

 

[surferfb]

It's always best to report a post if you think it could be violating the rules.

Yep, I did report that one and was told it wasn't in violation. And I get that it's probably borderline. Not trying to create extra work or anything, just was surprised that it was ok.

Appreciate everything the mods do!

 

[xJustxMegx]

I do agree, but "common sense" should be fine right? Not everything needs to be in the rules because people always find a loophole.

 

[I7guy]

Related to post #2 above, I'll give a more local example

Jane says: "I really wish Apple would have some sort of new small phone option in the lineup still"

D*** says: "Go buy an Android if you don't like it"

From what I’ve seen responses such at the above are usually suggested when the post is some over the top general negative criticism of Apple.

I would also agree with @surferfb above in saying that, I'm absolutely positive that every one of us has been guilty of such behavior on here.

Having a "don't be a d***" rule, however, would really help us all course correct.

Without such rules, inevitably, the behavior overall, on all sides of any issue, ends up degrading to the lowest point allowed by the rules.

There’s a chasm of difference between a response that may lack substance or be low quality to a response that is borderline trolling.

If there were a rule regarding low substance m, low quality and lack of quality most of Macrumors would be caught up in that rule.

 

[turbineseaplane]

From what I’ve seen responses such at the above are usually suggested when the post is some over the top general negative criticism of Apple.

That doesn't make the reply ok

That would be the point of such a rule -- to quell it on both sides of an issue

 

[turbineseaplane]

There’s a chasm of difference between a response that may lack substance or be low quality to a response that is borderline trolling.

Content aside, a "don't be a d***" rule is actually more about tone and respect for other people

There are myriad ways to phrase the exact same intended content ... that's the part that makes all the difference in having courteous dialogue that can show disagreement, while still maintaining respect for the other person

 

[Weaselboy]

Has MacRumors ever considered adding, for lack of a better term, a "don't be a d*ck" rule? Honestly, I'm probably guilty of violating such a rule in the past, but there are recently some posts that aren't apparently rule breaking, but don't exactly foster good discussion and community.

Without commenting on the specifics of examples quoted in this thread, we often apply the trolling or taunting rules to posts where the person is just being a jerk and trying to provoke others.

===
Trolling. Do not post in order to anger other members or intentionally cause negative reactions. For a given post, this can be a subjective call, but a pattern of such posting or an especially egregious case will get you banned.

Trolling. Posts that appear to be designed to cause argument or irritate rather than contribute to a constructive discussion are considered trolling and will be treated as such.

Taunting. Mocking or taunting another forum member is not acceptable. Posts that ridicule another member or obviously exaggerate or misstate their views (including purposely mis-quoting them) may be removed.

 

[I7guy]

That doesn't make the reply ok

That would be the point of such a rule -- to quell it on both sides of an issue

It doesn’t make the reply not ok. Nobody in this thread is holier than thou. There is no way to completely resolve all internet communication issues. There will always be low quality posts and low quality responses.

Cleaning up the tone, civility, etc would be a good first step.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It doesn’t make the reply not ok. Nobody in this thread is holier than thou. There is no way to completely resolve all internet communication issues. There will always be low quality posts and low quality responses.

Cleaning up the tone, civility, etc would be a good first step.

Let me just say this

If you see something you think shouldn't be on the forum, by rule or tone or feel -- report it

Seeing something of that nature posted, should not mean nor give permission to stoop to the same level with an equally inappropriate reply

Report the initial post and hopefully it gets cleaned up and the forum and the atmosphere here is better for everyone

👍

 

[chown33]

Without commenting on the specifics of examples quoted in this thread, we often apply the trolling or taunting rules to posts where the person is just being a jerk and trying to provoke others.

The rule against insults also contains a fair amount of "don't be a d***" verbiage:

Forum Rules

Jump to: Instantly Bannable Offenses | Advertising/Self-promotion | Things Not to Do | Minor Problems The following rules govern use of the forums. You are also responsible for observing the Regist...

macrumors.zendesk.com

Insults. Direct personal insult of other forum members (e.g., "You are an idiot.") and other name-calling. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. You may dispute somebody's opinion but not attack/flame the person who stated it. There are a lot of other non-direct-personal insults that won't necessary get you banned instantly, but depending on the context/nature may lead to post editing, post deletion, warnings, or time-outs. They include telling people to shut up, describing a member as ignorant or obtuse or as an apologist, and being extremely or repeatedly rude or sarcastic. It's not your place to tell other users they are not welcome; if they follow the rules, they are welcome. Also, do not tell users when you decide to add them to your ignore list. Bottom line -- don't try to tick off others and don't make discussions unnecessarily personal. If somebody else insults you, report their post; their post does not give you a license to break the rules by returning their insults. Although we do not read Private Messages sent between forum members, the rules for appropriate and inappropriate content apply to them as well. Note: Avoid the word ignorant, but it's acceptable to claim that another user is uninformed about or unaware of a particular set of facts.

If one were to edit the sentences into a bullet list, it would pretty much end up being a "don't be a dick" list of things not to do. Not everything would be a bright-line admonition, but that seems unavoidable to me, given what it's trying to circumscribe.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is what I was getting at above in posts #14, #11 and #10

"If somebody else insults you, report their post; their post does not give you a license to break the rules by returning their insults."

Simply adhering to "report the post and don't slap back" would probably do wonders

 

[I7guy]

Let me just say this

If you see something you think shouldn't be on the forum, by rule or tone or feel -- report it

Seeing something of that nature posted, should not mean nor give permission to stoop to the same level with an equally inappropriate reply

Report the initial post and hopefully it gets cleaned up and the forum and the atmosphere here is better for everyone

👍

I don’t know if we are discussing the same thing. I am referring to low quality posts eg:

- “Tim Crook is useless and apple doesn’t innovate anymore and their products are crap and overpriced”
- “Okay so if you dislike apple that much get a cheap android”

Both are low quality, but the first post doesn’t seem to break any rules except the rule of good debate or conversation. The second post doesn’t seemingly break any rules either.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I don’t know if we are discussing the same thing. I am referring to low quality posts eg:

- “Tim Crook is useless and apple doesn’t innovate anymore and their products are crap and overpriced”
- “Okay so if you dislike apple that much get a cheap android”

Both are low quality, but the first post doesn’t seem to break any rules except the rule of good debate or conversation. The second post doesn’t seemingly break any rules either.

Both not great, I agree --

Report the first and don't reply would be my guidance, if asked

#1 may not be in violation, to your point

There's nothing requiring a reply to it -- just slide on by if it goes unmoderated I guess?

I think we all can fall into the trap of interpreting something personally, or as attacking something we like ... and get ourselves worked into a reply when it is not compulsory

(very much using "we" here on purpose 👆 - I'm not exempt)

 

[ipaqrat]

MR forum moderation policies are spelled out as productively as possible. I never engage a thread with ill will, but sometimes I apply too much salt, because I consider dark sarcasm the highest form of humor. Sometimes, I too plainly surface the inseparable political influences over IT (such as the UK griefing IT services over end-to-end encryption, because zero-day-phishing is less reliable owing to improving trends in routine IT security).

Some folk complain about the Laugh Emoticon, as though it can mean only derogation. Some folks perceive rhetorical dope-slaps as mortal insult, despite the intrinsic anonymity of MR's forums. Mostly complaints are more about the complainers, themselves - i.e., egotistical projection.

MR's forum rules are fine. Folks who feel injured by compliant posts need to work on themselves. Perhaps start by reading Orwell's 1984

 

[turbineseaplane]

Some folk complain about the Laugh Emoticon, as though it can mean only derogation.

A lot of us don't like it because we don't know what it means when used

And, anecdotally, it gets used as a "laughing at you" (trolling) tool a lot, which can be observed over time with certain users one becomes accustomed to.

 

[ipaqrat]

A lot of us don't like it because we don't know what it means when used

And, anecdotally, it gets used as a "laughing at you" (trolling) tool a lot, which can be observed over time with certain users one becomes accustomed to.

Precisely my point, thank you. The anxiety and frustration of receiving a Laugh on one's post, might have more to do author mindset, rather than that of respondents. Heck, I feel injured when I DON'T get a Laugh. 😆 Whew, there, I feel better. I'm Laugh-Troll-Proof, because I don't put up no bricks.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Precisely my point, thank you. The anxiety and frustration of receiving a Laugh on one's post, might have more to do author mindset, rather than that of respondents. Heck, I feel injured when I DON'T get a Laugh. 😆 Whew, there, I feel better. I'm Laugh-Troll-Proof, because I don't put up no bricks.

So the person writing the post is the problem, not the person leaving the ambiguous reaction?

That's strange logic, at least to me

What about "angry faces"?

Is someone leaving an "angry face" because they are don't like the user?

Don't like what the user said?

Or, and I've seen this one, are they angry about what the person posting is discussing, but they AGREE with the poster saying it?


The answer to most all of this is: "use the keyboard and type text" -- it's a discussion forum

 

[I7guy]

So the person writing the post is the problem, not the person leaving the ambiguous reaction?

That's strange logic, at least to me

The person writing the post can clearly be the problem. If one yells fire in a live theater am I the problem for reacting as such?

What about "angry faces"?

Is someone leaving an "angry face" because they are don't like the user?

What about them? This is a form of social media and there are a range of reactions available to registered users. Don’t like a post, leave a reaction. (It’s the stalkers though that are a blight on the forum)

Don't like what the user said?

Or, and I've seen this one, are they angry about what the person posting is discussing, but they AGREE with the poster saying it?


The answer to most all of this is: "use the keyboard and type text" -- it's a discussion forum

Do what one wants to do. Respond or don’t respond, leave a reaction or not. Be yourself.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The person writing the post can clearly be the problem. If one yells fire in a live theater am I the problem for reacting as such?

What about them? This is a form of social media and there are a range of reactions available to registered users. Don’t like a post, leave a reaction. (It’s the stalkers though that are a blight on the forum)

Do what one wants to do. Respond or don’t respond, leave a reaction or not. Be yourself.

We're just going to end up going in circles here

Let's just agree to disagree
Cheers 👍

 

[I7guy]

We're just going to end up going in circles here

Let's just agree to disagree
Cheers 👍

We’ll never achieve “forum nirvana” where all are in agreement the way the forum is run and some are opposite opinions.

But it’s good hearing everybody’s opinions.