PowerBook Incoming..?

[Santabean2000]

Just wondering about Apple's next move to re-establish themselves in the Pro scene; PowerBook to make a comeback?

I think they may go all in and build a laptop with 32GB+ RAM and a halfway decent graphics chips. It will be called the PowerBook and recycle the old MBP shell, keyboard and ports (+ USB C in the space of the magsafe).

Thoughts?

Would you buy it?

 

[The Mercurian]

Just wondering about Apple's next move to re-establish themselves in the Pro scene; PowerBook to make a comeback?

I think they may go all in and build a laptop with 32GB+ RAM and a halfway decent graphics chips. It will be called the PowerBook and recycle the old MBP shell, keyboard and ports (+ USB C in the space of the magsafe).

Thoughts?

Would you buy it?

I don't think my bank manager would give me the necessary remortage to buy such a beast....

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Just wondering about Apple's next move to re-establish themselves in the Pro scene; PowerBook to make a comeback?

I think they may go all in and build a laptop with 32GB+ RAM and a halfway decent graphics chips. It will be called the PowerBook and recycle the old MBP shell, keyboard and ports (+ USB C in the space of the magsafe).

Thoughts?

Would you buy it?

It won't happen apple have always made machines that were a good balance of size /weight, performance and battery life, they have never made anything portable that did not follow this mantra and they never will. Give it up when LPDDR4 is available and they have the chipsets to take 32gb of RAM without destroying battery life they will do it and not before. When mobile dGPU's with better performance are available that fit within their TDP design they will use them. Apple used the optimum components for their vision of a performance notebook if this is not what you want or need then you will have to look somewhere else because apple will not change on this that simple.

 

[leman]

I am sceptical about this. Apple's laptops (yes, PowerBooks too), have always been about mobility and balance of features. The current MBP is just an extreme evolution of the PowerBook DNA — compact, extremely powerful, best-in-class connectivity, top-end display. Furthermore, I don't think that making a gaming laptop or a desktop replacement workstation is something that Apple is interested in. Not to mention that the market is too niche to make any decent profits. Of course, it might generate some positive publicity from the spec nerds, but Apple is not really known for doing these kinds of publicity stunts.

Personally, I hope that it won't happen. Why? Very simple. I have no interest in a heavy laptop with subpar battery life, no matter how powerful its GPU would be. But if Apple would decide to release this kind of beast, the current thin-and-light 15" will most definitely suffer performance cuts. And I don't want that. Apple currently produces the fastest ultra-portable laptop on the market that doesn't sacrifice battery or connectivity and any deviation from this would be a huge negative impact on my work.

 

[EnesM]

It won't happen apple have always made machines that were a good balance of size /weight, performance and battery life, they have never made anything portable that did not follow this mantra and they never will. Give it up when LPDDR4 is available and they have the chipsets to take 32gb of RAM without destroying battery life they will do it and not before. When mobile dGPU's with better performance are available that fit within their TDP design they will use them. Apple used the optimum components for their vision of a performance notebook if this is not what you want or need then you will have to look somewhere else because apple will not change on this that simple.

Are those chipsets available now with Kaby Lake? There is a persistent rumor that the next 15" will support up to 32gb.

 

[leman]

Are those chipsets available now with Kaby Lake?

AFAIK, they are not.

There is a persistent rumor that the next 15" will support up to 32gb.

There are two ways I see for the MBP to support 32GB — either it goes for DDR4 RAM (and takes a neat hit to battery life), or Apple engineers try to cramp twice as much LPDDR3 RAM modules into the laptop (there will still be a battery life drop though).

 

[EnesM]

AFAIK, they are not.



There are two ways I see for the MBP to support 32GB — either it goes for DDR4 RAM (and takes a neat hit to battery life), or Apple engineers try to cramp twice as much LPDDR3 RAM modules into the laptop (there will still be a battery life drop though).

I just read that LPDDR3 16GB modules are now available, so they could in fact go with option 2.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

It's looking fairly likely LPDDR4 will be available in 32gb in the next MBP 15 inch, when that will be is anyones guess though.

 

[robvas]

If they come out with 32GB people are going to want 64GB...

 

[The Mercurian]

If they come out with 32GB people are going to want 64GB...

Yeah but the competitors like Dell don't sell 64GB XPS's - they do sell 32GB XPS's

 

[robvas]

Yea, but you can get 64GB in the Lenovo and HP workstation laptops. So someone will complain

 

[redheeler]

It will be called the PowerBook and recycle the old MBP shell, keyboard and ports (+ USB C in the space of the magsafe).

I can't see them recycling the PowerBook name for a couple reasons. First is that the "Power" stood for the PowerPC architecture, which Apple was using at the time; hence why the first Intel laptops made the name switch. Second is the name continuity Apple tries to maintain with the product lines, such as making sure the word "Mac" is in every product name, and differentiating consumer and high-end/professional products with the word "Pro" at the end of the latter.

As for MagSafe, that is a standard I feel Apple really needs to bring back. Only, in the form of a MagSafe USB-C port which is also compatible with standard USB-C devices.

 

[leman]

As for MagSafe, that is a standard I feel Apple really needs to bring back. Only, in the form of a MagSafe USB-C port which is also compatible with standard USB-C devices.

I don't think that this can ever work, for a variety of reasons. Rather, I believe that the next step will involve high-performance near field communication that will also be able to transmit enough current to charge the laptop.

 

[The Mercurian]

Yea, but you can get 64GB in the Lenovo and HP workstation laptops. So someone will complain

A workstation laptop is a different class of device, and Apple don't compete with that.

 

[jerryk]

If they come out with 32GB people are going to want 64GB...

Nothing wrong with that. How many would be happy with the 1-2 GB that was standard less than a decade ago? And memory needs are going to continue to grow.

 

[boy-better-know]

Wasn't there an article a few months ago suggesting the next MBP will have a 32GB option, no need for a rebrand.

 

[Santabean2000]

It won't happen apple have always made machines that were a good balance of size /weight, performance and battery life, they have never made anything portable that did not follow this mantra and they never will. Give it up when LPDDR4 is available and they have the chipsets to take 32gb of RAM without destroying battery life they will do it and not before. When mobile dGPU's with better performance are available that fit within their TDP design they will use them. Apple used the optimum components for their vision of a performance notebook if this is not what you want or need then you will have to look somewhere else because apple will not change on this that simple.

I agree, but... the pros reaction to the new MBP was far from positive. In fact, there was a massive rush on the old refurbished models.

It was this reaction, that pushed Apple into having their recent meeting with the 5 media crew to discuss the Pro space.

They basically admitted they bet wrong.

I'm picking a new nMBP/PowerBook will be available this year, or by March next year at the latest.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I agree, but... the pros reaction to the new MBP was far from positive. In fact, there was a massive rush on the old refurbished models.

It was this reaction, that pushed Apple into having their recent meeting with the 5 media crew to discuss the Pro space.

They basically admitted they bet wrong.

I'm picking a new nMBP/PowerBook will be available this year, or by March next year at the latest.

I agree a new one will be available I just don't think it will be the behemoth a small minority of people want, it will be the same as now with 32gb of RAM available and possibly a vega GPU, kabylake or canonlake will make little difference performance wise but may well provide a battery boost.

If you noticed when they had the meeting about the Pro space they concentrated on the desktops, because they consider that heavy lifting should be performed by a desktop not a laptop that has to compromise for size weight and the subsequent TDP constraints. Yes a nice fairly powerful portable machine is a great for on the road but they already make that, and we are still a long way off portable machines able to remain sensibly portable and provide desktop performance and good battery life.

 

[The Mercurian]

I agree a new one will be available I just don't think it will be the behemoth a small minority of people want, it will be the same as now with 32gb of RAM available and possibly a vega GPU, kabylake or canonlake will make little difference performance wise but may well provide a battery boost.

If you noticed when they had the meeting about the Pro space they concentrated on the desktops, because they consider that heavy lifting should be performed by a desktop not a laptop that has to compromise for size weight and the subsequent TDP constraints. Yes a nice fairly powerful portable machine is a great for on the road but they already make that, and we are still a long way off portable machines able to remain sensibly portable and provide desktop performance and good battery life.

But you are missing the point. Competitors sell 32GB slim portable laptops. That matters. It matters when folks like myself who have bought Apple for well over a decade are seriously considering jumping ship. As I said above - no need for 64GB - there isn't a slim-line competitor for that. Yes there are volcanoe proof desktop replacements - but thats never been an Apple target market. The kind of folks who buy Dell XPS's ARE Apples target market

 

[Santabean2000]

I agree a new one will be available I just don't think it will be the behemoth a small minority of people want, it will be the same as now with 32gb of RAM available and possibly a vega GPU, kabylake or canonlake will make little difference performance wise but may well provide a battery boost.

If you noticed when they had the meeting about the Pro space they concentrated on the desktops, because they consider that heavy lifting should be performed by a desktop not a laptop that has to compromise for size weight and the subsequent TDP constraints. Yes a nice fairly powerful portable machine is a great for on the road but they already make that, and we are still a long way off portable machines able to remain sensibly portable and provide desktop performance and good battery life.

It doesn't need to be a behemoth; I'm picking the old 15" model with USB C instead of Magsafe.

Pros bemoaned the lack of ports, redundant touch bar and crappy keyboard as much as they did the lack of a higher RAM ceiling.

Moving back to the old casing with new internals is an easy jump to make.

 

[leman]

Pros bemoaned the lack of ports, redundant touch bar and crappy keyboard as much as they did the lack of a higher RAM ceiling.

Do you have any sources to back this up? Sure, some people were not happy with the new design. But the sales on the new machine are very strong and I don't see any evidence that "pros" (whoever that might be) are leaving en masse.

Personally, I consider the new design to be a significant improvement over the old one (especially the ports and the keyboard). We have bought a dozen of new MBP models over the last few months and all the users are happy with them so far.

But you are missing the point. Competitors sell 32GB slim portable laptops.

How much battery life does the Dell XPS with 32GB gets? I guess south of four hours? It already struggles to get more then 6 hours with 16GB.... Additional 16GB = additional 6 watt always-on power!

What many people seem to have difficulty getting is that there is no such thing as "free" stuff. Every decision has consequences. Want a great screen like the XPS 15? Prepare to pay with significant hit to battery as well as reduced brightness. Want a lot of RAM? The same. Apple made a difficult choice, and their choice was to prioritise the general usability for the majority of use cases instead of crippling major features of the laptop so that it would appeal to a very small group of extreme users. The funny things is that those extreme users are capable of generating a lot of negative publicity simply because they are LOUD.

 

[Santabean2000]

Do you have any sources to back this up? Sure, some people were not happy with the new design. But the sales on the new machine are very strong and I don't see any evidence that "pros" (whoever that might be) are leaving en masse.

I was listening to 'The Next ten Words' podcast featuring Rene Ritchie from iMore. He seems to have plenty of contacts and his finger on the pulse.

On a personal level, I'm not tempted by the new models, as much by the price as anything. To trick one out to my spec, I'd be up for approx $5K (local currency).

Currently I'm running a 2012 15" with 2xSSDs and 16GB RAM. It's a weighty beast, but not too far off in real-world performance as compared to the new MBPs.

Not sure what my next computer will be... Quite possible it won't be a Mac.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I don't think Apple has ever really gone backwards in their mobile devices in terms of size and weight without increasing the screen size at the same time except to create a budget model like the iPhone SE and non-retina 13" MBP. Because of that it's pretty unlikely that they'd re-use the shell for an older model to create some kind of "super pro" model.

Even at that, the new MBP has a small, but clearly very vocal, group has been bemoaning it, but it has so far sold better than any previous MBP so I'd say it's pretty clear that the actual financial numbers tell Apple that this is the way to go. Try to remember that Steve Jobs originally hired Tim Cook to handle supply chain, logistics and manufacturing, all of which are very numbers and results driven aspects of the business so you can be pretty sure sales figures affect his judgement pretty heavily.

 

[The Mercurian]

How much battery life does the Dell XPS with 32GB gets? I guess south of four hours? It already struggles to get more then 6 hours with 16GB.... Additional 16GB = additional 6 watt always-on power!

You've made this point many times before. It is a straw man argument however since the people asking for 32Gb are not expressing any concerns about battery life. They are separate issues.

And as I have said before - as someone who does want 32GB option I don't care if ther eis a bttery life hit. I'm a grown up let me make my own choice about it instead of deciding for me. Like Dell do.

Nobody will force you or anyone else to buy a 32GB option if they don't want to.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

You've made this point many times before. It is a straw man argument however since the people asking for 32Gb are not expressing any concerns about battery life. They are separate issues.

And as I have said before - as someone who does want 32GB option I don't care if ther eis a bttery life hit. I'm a grown up let me make my own choice about it instead of deciding for me. Like Dell do.

Nobody will force you or anyone else to buy a 32GB option if they don't want to.

Firstly there is nop separate issue every laptop is a series of trade offs simple as that. Secondly we understand what you want, we aren't stupid, what you don't seem to understand is that apple don't want to make a computer with bad battery life, its just asking for a complete hammering in the press with reviewers and from the many millions of idiots that will buy a 32gb one with no thought to battery life just because they can and then whinge and moan when the battery life is ****. They certainly won't make a separate design to include a DDR4 controller with all the development testing etc costs that will impact their bottom line, for a machine that isn't what they want to make.

Apple made the options and configurations that suit not only the majority of their customers but also their own needs in supply chain, time and resources spent on development, complexity of manufacturing and their legal obligations to maximise profits for their shareholders, more importantly they prioritised for the majority, not the minority and stuck to their vision of what a 15 inch slim light performance laptop should provide and configured it with the trade-offs that most closely matched that vision. All this added up to a difficult decision, one they made the almost unprecedented decision to explain to the public.

You like to make your own decisions?? Well then do so and buy something else!! Why should apple or anyone else care I know I couldn't care less which computer you use or why and why you buy what you do. You may not want what apple make at the moment and that's fine, but that doesn't make their decisions any less logical or sensible for them and the majority of people who buy their computers.