More rumors about the G5

[Veldek]

MacBidouille posts the following:

Here are some informations we have just received concerning the G5 :

- Keyboard and mouse will not be ones from eMac, they will be specially dedicated for G5
- Displays will have a slight change, there will no longer be horizontal stripes (as shown on Mac4ever)
- Mono-Processor G5 will be ready for the 1st week of August and the 3rd for the Dual-Processors
- Superdrive will be a Sony, and shall not be bridled

 

[adamfilip]

sounds good.. i cant wait till i get to see one in store

really hope they release a new keyboard..

i want backlit keys like on the 17" pb also how bout a built in finger print reader for secure login's

 

[Veldek]

Originally posted by adamfilip
i want backlit keys like on the 17" pb also how bout a built in finger print reader for secure login's

Wow, this would be amazingly cool, indeed! I still hope they introduce Bluetooth peripherals, but I don't think that they will ship them with the G5, but make them available as an extra buy for those who want them.

 

[Schiffi]

ugh, I've had problems with Sony DVD burners under Windows. Let's hope installing them under a Mac fixes it.

 

[XnavxeMiyyep]

Originally posted by Schiffi
ugh, I've had problems with Sony DVD burners under Windows. Let's hope installing them under a Mac fixes it.

The keyword here is Windows.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Re: More rumors about the G5

Originally posted by Veldek
3rd for the Dual-Processors
- Superdrive will be a Sony, and shall not be bridled

What is bridled?

 

[tpjunkie]

firmware not allowing the recording of both DVD-R/W and DVD+R/W...i sure hope its unbridled!

 

[WM.]

Re: Re: More rumors about the G5

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
What is bridled?

Good question.

My guess is they mean that DVD-RW and DVD+R[W] won't be disabled like they are on the Sony drives in some new iMacs. (I don't have a Mac with a SuperDrive, so don't crawl up my ass if DVD-RW is supported already ; I know you can force iDVD to burn to one, but I'm not sure about the Finder.)

But I don't know how likely this is, considering that DVD+R[W] would probably require support in the OS, and there haven't been any indications that Panther has any changes in this department.

FWIW
WM

edit: Looks like tpjunkie beat me to the punch!

 

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by tpjunkie
firmware not allowing the recording of both DVD-R/W and DVD+R/W...i sure hope its unbridled!

I like everything of mine unbridled.....

This all seems to be good for Apple.

 

[bikertwin]

re: Unbridled

A thread on the Power Mac G5 forum on Apple's site (see the "Pioneer dvr-106" thread on the "G5 Comments & Questions" forum) suggests that the drive is the Pioneer A06/106 (the G5 specs supposedly match the A06/106 specs better than the Sony specs). And an Apple Helper there suggests that it will in fact be bridled (e.g., DVD+R/RW disabled in ROM).

***BEGIN QUOTE***

Dave Sawyer
(Helper)
RE: Pioneer dvr-106
(msg # 1.: Posted Jul 8, 03 3:42 pm)

Posts: 12555

The SuperDrive in the G5 will remain a DVD-R drive, not a combination DVD-R/DVD+R as the DVD-106 is. Whether the mechanism will be based on the DVR-106 or not we probably won't know until the units start shipping.

=======

Krishna Kant
RE(1): RE: Pioneer dvr-106
(msg # 1.1: Posted Jul 8, 03 4:13 pm)

Posts: 39

Dave:

If the mechanism is the Pioneer 106, how would +R recording be disabled?

From the specs listed in the developer doc, it would appear that the superdrive in the G5 is indeed the 106. Neither the Pioneer 105 nor any of the Sony drives match the listed specs, while the 106 matches those specs spot-on.

***END QUOTE***

I sure hope MacBidoulle is correct.

 

[Nebrie]

Re: Re: More rumors about the G5

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
What is bridled?

restrained, restricted

 

[Squire]

Originally posted by Schiffi
ugh, I've had problems with Sony DVD burners under Windows. Let's hope installing them under a Mac fixes it.

My iMac has a Sony Superdrive and (knock on wood) I haven't experienced any problems with it.

Squire

 

[Kermit]

Bridled?

Could someone please explain to me why, oh why, Apple would do such a thing as disable the DVD+RW function of its Superdrives?

 

[MisterMe]

Re: Bridled?

Originally posted by Kermit
Could someone please explain to me why, oh why, Apple would do such a thing as disable the DVD+RW function of its Superdrives?

Apple supports only DVD-R[W]. By disabling DVD+R[W] on drives with dual format capability (DVD-R[W]/DVD-R[W]), Apple can transparently intermingle various model drives in its product lines.

 

[bosskxx1]

Re: Bridled?

The DVD-R competes with DVD+R. They are virtually identical, with the only notable exception that DVD+R has a special transfer mode for future versions of Windows (Longhorn?). Plus Microsoft supports DVD+R, and the standard according to the DVD forum is the DVD-R. So it is logical that Apple goes with standards and supports only the DVD-R. If you really want to burn a DVD+R disk, I think you can do it with Toast 5.

Really this only competition format is just confusing for consumers.

While I would really like my Power Mac G5 on the first week of August, I think that is a premature guess. According to Apple, it says it won't be available until or before 9/2/03. So I am guessing more or less the last week of August.

However I hope that I am wrong and do get it on the first week of August.

 

[pyrotoaster]

"Will be ready..."
People with pre-orders have confirmed that Apple's pushed back the shipping dates into early September. I don't see how the machines could be "Ready" in the first week of August, then.
Of course, what's MacBidouille definition of the word "Ready"?

 

[Sayhey]

I will make a trip over to Emeryville to see one of these close up. Glad to hear that those rumors of delays into September probably aren't true. Now if I could get a firm release date on Panther and iTMS for windows I'd be happy. The combination should help Apple's sales tremendously.

 

[Kermit]

Standards for life

Originally posted by bosskxx1
The DVD-R competes with DVD+R. They are vertically identical, with the only notable exception that DVD+R has a special transfer mode for future versions of Windows (Longhorn?). Plus Microsoft supports DVD+R, and the standard according to the DVD forum is the DVD-R. So it is logical that Apple goes with standards and supports only the DVD-R. If you really want to burn DVD+R disk, I think you can with Toast 5.

Hearing it that way I agree with your conclusion. Staying with standards is a good thing. But then why does not Apple officially support the full DVD-RW specification? It only support DVD-R when, as you say, there is DVD-RW and DVD-RAM also. I know you can burn DVD-RW with Toast but why no official support from Apple?

[Edit: CD/DVD mixup]

 

[WM.]

Couple things:

There are no "rumors" of G5 shipping dates being pushed back to September. To my knowledge, people who have ordered G5s have been told that their orders will ship on or before September 2nd. Please note that this does not rule out an earlier ship date! Both MacBidouille and the conventional wisdom (early September) can simultaneously be right. There are *possible* delays into September, but they are *not* rumors.

Also, I'm curious how Apple doesn't support CD-RW. I personally haven't tried burning one yet (only CD-Rs), and I guess I haven't paid attention to discussions of incompatibility/lack of support. So I'd appreciate if anyone could shed any light on that situation.

Or did Kermit make a typo/brain fart and mean DVD-RW instead?

WM

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by WM.
Also, I'm curious how Apple doesn't support CD-RW. I personally haven't tried burning one yet (only CD-Rs), and I guess I haven't paid attention to discussions of incompatibility/lack of support. So I'd appreciate if anyone could shed any light on that situation.

Or did Kermit make a typo/brain fart and mean DVD-RW instead?

Doesn't matter. In either case, the answer is "no." Or "yes," depending on which way you look at it.

Both CD-RW and DVD-RW are supported in current-generation SuperDrive Macs. (I don't know about previous generations firsthand, but I think it's the same.) Insert a blank CD-RW or DVD-RW, and you can burn it with the Finder or iTunes or iPhoto or whatever. Insert a written CD-RW or DVD-RW and it comes up as a read-only volume, but pop open Disk Utility and behold as the "Erase" button lights up. Erase the CD-RW/DVD-RW, and you're ready to roll.

I do all of these operations on a daily basis on my MDD G4 with SuperDrive and 10.2.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Doesn't matter. In either case, the answer is "no." Or "yes," depending on which way you look at it.

Both CD-RW and DVD-RW are supported in current-generation SuperDrive Macs. (I don't know about previous generations firsthand, but I think it's the same.) Insert a blank CD-RW or DVD-RW, and you can burn it with the Finder or iTunes or iPhoto or whatever. Insert a written CD-RW or DVD-RW and it comes up as a read-only volume, but pop open Disk Utility and behold as the "Erase" button lights up. Erase the CD-RW/DVD-RW, and you're ready to roll.

OK, thanks for clearing that up. So I think we could all agree that there should be support for erasing already-written -RWs in the Finder.

As for Apple support of +R[W], I guess I'm of two minds about it--on the one hand, it's bad for the DVD Forum to be circumvented. Official standards are good. On the other hand, if something's relatively unproprietary and a lot of people use it, it might as well be an official standard anyway, plus the consumer can only benefit from a drive that reads and writes all the formats seamlessly--and an OS that fully supports that drive.

WM

 

[bikertwin]

Apple DOES NOT support ANY external CD-R/RW drive, using the Backup app that comes with .Mac. Apple DOES NOT support any internal CD-R/RW that it did not factory install--even if that CD-R/RW says "fully supported" in System Profiler.

Likewise, it looks like they're only going to support Apple-installed, internal, original SuperDrives.

This in spite of the fact that the entire industry is moving to dual-format drives. So there's no excuse that they need to disable +R/RW in order to source the drives from multiple OEMs. That simply isn't true. Sony, Pioneer, TDK, Iomega ... *everybody* is moving to dual format.

Everybody beats up on Microsoft for the whole Palladium thing, and yet no one in the Mac community cares that Apple is forcing users to use only original, Apple-installed hardware in order to use its software.

I may de-switch.

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Apple DOES NOT support ANY external CD-R/RW drive, using the Backup app that comes with .Mac. Apple DOES NOT support any internal CD-R/RW that it did not factory install--even if that CD-R/RW says "fully supported" in System Profiler.

Define "support." Do you mean, it won't work? Wrong. I have a QPS CD-RW that I back up to with Backup regularly. I had it on the FireWire bus for a while, then I removed it from its case and moved it to the second slot in my G4.

On the other hand, will Apple promise that it will work, and provide technical support if it doesn't? Of course not. That's what "third-party" means.

So there's no excuse that they need to disable +R/RW in order to source the drives from multiple OEMs.

Excuse? Who said anything about making an excuse? Apple's selling a product. If you don't like it, buy somebody else's.

Everybody beats up on Microsoft for the whole Palladium thing, and yet no one in the Mac community cares that Apple is forcing users to use only original, Apple-installed hardware in order to use its software.

First of all, I personally couldn't care less about Palladium. Microsoft sees a demand in the marketplace for a secure computing platform. This is certainly the case. How often are we seeing new security-related warnings come from the major vendors? Once a week? Twice? It's completely out of hand.

So there's this demand, and Microsoft is working to meet it. Good for them. I wish them success.

But here's the thing. What do Microsoft's plan to develop a secure computing platform and Apple's decision to fully support only factory-installed peripherals have in common?

That's not a rhetorical question. I really want to know. 'Cause I'm drawing a blank here.

 

[simX]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Apple DOES NOT support ANY external CD-R/RW drive, using the Backup app that comes with .Mac. Apple DOES NOT support any internal CD-R/RW that it did not factory install--even if that CD-R/RW says "fully supported" in System Profiler.

Likewise, it looks like they're only going to support Apple-installed, internal, original SuperDrives.

This in spite of the fact that the entire industry is moving to dual-format drives. So there's no excuse that they need to disable +R/RW in order to source the drives from multiple OEMs. That simply isn't true. Sony, Pioneer, TDK, Iomega ... *everybody* is moving to dual format.

Everybody beats up on Microsoft for the whole Palladium thing, and yet no one in the Mac community cares that Apple is forcing users to use only original, Apple-installed hardware in order to use its software.

I may de-switch.

Actually, Backup supports third-party CD-RW drives. The latest versions (1.2.2 and 1.2.3) have a problem with them that disable the functioning of third-party drives, from what I've heard, but it seems to be just a PROBLEM, not an intentional disabling, since 1.2.1 and before supported third-party drives (as pointed out by Jeff Harrell).

Also -- how is Apple was forcing you to use Apple-installed hardware? The only restriction I know of is iDVD. Backup supports (see caveat above) third-party CD-RW drives, the Finder supports third-party CD-RW drives, iTunes support third-party CD-RW drives. What's this lack of third-party support of which you speak?

... this is not to mention all the built-in support for things like FireWire drives, printers, scanners, etc., etc.

It seems to me like Apple, more often than not, is going out of its way to support any third-party peripherals in order to make the Mac a plug-and-play platform in every single case. That's much more than I can say for Windows.

If you want to "de-switch" and get Palladium forced down your throat, then be my guest. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

 

[bikertwin]

Define "support." Do you mean, it won't work? Wrong.

Then don't upgrade to Backup 1.2.2 or 1.2.3, because it won't work. See Apple's .Mac support forums for more details. I don't make this stuff up.

The latest versions (1.2.2 and 1.2.3) have a problem with them that disable the functioning of third-party drives, from what I've heard, but it seems to be just a PROBLEM, not an intentional disabling

If it was a "problem" and not "intentional" why wasn't it fixed in 1.2.3? I suggest you re-read Moderator-Mark's postings in Apple's .Mac support forum. When people complain about it, he doesn't say "it's a known problem and their working on it," he says, "Apple has never officially supported ..." blah blah blah.

Excuse? Who said anything about making an excuse?

"MisterMe", actually. I was responding to this comment of his/hers:

Apple supports only DVD-R[W]. By disabling DVD+R[W] on drives with dual format capability (DVD-R[W]/DVD-R[W]), Apple can transparently intermingle various model drives in its product lines.

But here's the thing. What do Microsoft's plan to develop a secure computing platform and Apple's decision to fully support only factory-installed peripherals have in common?

That's not a rhetorical question. I really want to know. 'Cause I'm drawing a blank here.

Technology is neither good nor bad. It's the application of the technology that is good or bad. My comment has to do with control. After I buy something, what can I do with it? I paid for it; I want control over what I can do with it (well, OK, short of killing or robbing people

Palladium is all about "security" and that sounds good. It locks down your machine. But the question is, who has control? Can a software company lock down your PC or an application if you fail to pay annual support fees, if you don't want support (you just want to continue using the product)? It's a real possibility. Others have discussed this at length better than I can.

It's the same thing with Apple's optical drive policy. It's one thing for Apple to say "other brands may or may not work, we don't guarantee it". It's something completely different to say, "we are rewriting the ROM so it is physically impossible to write to a particular format even though the hardware manufacturer fully supports it." Or, like in Backup, to remove all non-Apple CD and DVD writers from the list of available writers to, again, make it physically impossible to write to them.

The worst Windows will do is to pop up a dialog that states that a particular product is not certified, and ask if you want to install or use it. I am not aware of Windows or PC manufacturers disabling access to competitors products.

Does Windows only write to HP-brand CD's or CD drives if you have an HP PC? No, there's no limitation like that that I am aware of. If you call HP Support, they might say it's not an HP product so they don't guarantee compatiblity; but they never physically disable access to competing products.

And that's exactly what Apple is doing with the DVD-R-only SuperDrive and now again with the Apple-only CD/DVD-writers in Apple (.Mac) Backup.

See the difference? It's all about control.

And people are worried that Apple is killing off software developers by copying and improving their products (Watson/Sherlock, and Premiere/FinalCutPro). Are they now doing the same thing with hardware? If you were LaCie or TDK or Memorex, would you bother with Mac OS X support if Apple didn't allow your products to be used?

Think about it.