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Pre Browswer: Total iPhone Ripoff

B

BoulderBum

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 3, 2008
513
0
So I have been checking out the Pre videos to see why Apple is so pissed about Palm stealing IP. For the most part, I thought the Pre interface and feature set was sufficiently different than the iPhone. I think the Pre even has some very cool innovations!

I saw a video of the browser, however, and it's a 100% total iPhone ripoff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izebx0YHvQU

You pinch to zoom, or double tap to zoom to a section. The accelerometer switches orientation of page depending on how you're holding the phone, etc.

Like, I think you could put a video of the browsers side by side and not be able to easily tell them apart.

I think Apple really has a case with Palm ripping off the browser.
 
WOW. Total Mobile Safari and iPhone OS rip off.
Although, I do like the idea of being able to "minimize" applications.
 
And Apple's springboard with the main icons on the bottom of the screen is a total Palm ripoff from the first Palm Pilots 10 years ago. No one cared to bring that up.

Look around, they all copy off of each other and have done so for years. Thankfully Palm didn't copy their OS too and made one that truly multitasks.
 
Pattycerts said:
And Apple's springboard with the main icons on the bottom of the screen is a total Palm ripoff from the first Palm Pilots 10 years ago. No one cared to bring that up.

Look around, they all copy off of each other and have done so for years. Thankfully Palm didn't copy their OS too and made one that truly multitasks.
Click to expand...

I don't know there Patty; The Palm Pilot interface doesn't remind me of the iPhone much at all. I mean, look at it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEx_qhu1_GU

I think there's a difference, however, between building off an idea in a unique way, and totally ripping something off. Case in point, I think some of the Pre's gestures, like flicking an application up off the screen to close it for example, use an Apple-like "gesture" concept, but are unique enough to the Pre to not make me raise my eyebrows.

The Pre browser, however, is a total and complete rip off of Apple. Virtually every bit of the interface is exactly idential to Apple's innovative, unique mobile browser.

Apple did a great job inventing Mobile Safari and perfecting a web browser for a handheld device. I, for one, would be furious if I came up with a revolutionary application just to see an exact clone pop up elsewhere.

The Pre needs its own browser, IMO, not Apple's.
 
Pattycerts said:
And Apple's springboard with the main icons on the bottom of the screen is a total Palm ripoff from the first Palm Pilots 10 years ago. No one cared to bring that up.
Click to expand...

Probably because it would make people like me point to the Newton OS from 1993 as prior art. :D
 
BoulderBum said:
I don't know there Patty; The Palm Pilot interface doesn't remind me of the iPhone much at all. I mean, look at it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEx_qhu1_GU

I think there's a difference, however, between building off an idea in a unique way, and totally ripping something off. Case in point, I think some of the Pre's gestures, like flicking an application up off the screen to close it for example, use an Apple-like "gesture" concept, but are unique enough to the Pre to not make me raise my eyebrows.

The Pre browser, however, is a total and complete rip off of Apple. Virtually every bit of the interface is exactly idential to Apple's innovative, unique mobile browser.

Apple did a great job inventing Mobile Safari and perfecting a web browser for a handheld device. I, for one, would be furious if I came up with a revolutionary application just to see an exact clone pop up elsewhere.

The Pre needs its own browser, IMO, not Apple's.
Click to expand...

are you kidding me? why does everyone think apple practically came up with everything? apple made multitouch/pinching popular but they definitely did not invent it. they're not innovating anything they're just extremely good at marketing. stop being such brainless apple fanboys.
 
I think the Pre is great. I don't look at it as stealing , but rather following in apples footsteps. I look forward to more phones adopting the high level of standards set by the iphone. If you look at it that way, the consumer wins. More variety of phones = healthy competition and continued technological growth. Why would anyone want to limit this type of interface to just one phone or company.
 
Well if you're pointing fingers. Apple ripped off the Palm OS's icon based home screen, ringer/silent toggle switch, threaded SMS messaging, the concept of a home button etc

Also ripped off the double space insert period feature from BlackBerry

Companies borrow ideas from each other, its the way the industry works. Apple is not some kind of outstanding innovator. They innovate alright but most of the time the just 're-adapt' existing concepts into their products
 
branjosef said:
I think the Pre is great. I don't look at it as stealing , but rather following in apples footsteps. I look forward to more phones adopting the high level of standards set by the iphone. If you look at it that way, the consumer wins. More variety of phones = healthy competition and continued technological growth. Why would anyone want to limit this type of interface to just one phone or company.
Click to expand...

What bothers me is the money and time spent for R&D/Patents, from Apple's part, what's the sense of that if a couple of years later everyone implements all of that having spent probably a 10th..Same goes for Computers/iPods, IMO. The whole concept of Web OS, and it's been said a thousand times on this forum is what Apple tried with the original iPhone, a system based on widgets, kind of...and now everyone is praising Palm. Btw, I still think the real innovator was the Newton, I really doubt it copied that much of others', like Palms', UI, and not vice-versa. The iPhone is simply a bit of a stripped down evolution departing from the Newton, and many competitors seem to me like taking many things from the iPhone.
 
I guess my thoughts were that it benefits the consumer to have multiple products offering features that the mass desire as opposed to just one. Not sure if that came across in my previous post- apologize for that. :)
 
deadsouls said:
are you kidding me? why does everyone think apple practically came up with everything? apple made multitouch/pinching popular but they definitely did not invent it. they're not innovating anything they're just extremely good at marketing. stop being such brainless apple fanboys.
Click to expand...

Well I do agree that it's ridiculous to claim that Apple invented it, you can't deny the fact that they hold the patents for it. They're also extremely good at realizing when an idea is worth spending the time and money to protect, even if it's not theirs

Pattycerts said:
And Apple's springboard with the main icons on the bottom of the screen is a total Palm ripoff from the first Palm Pilots 10 years ago. No one cared to bring that up.

Look around, they all copy off of each other and have done so for years. Thankfully Palm didn't copy their OS too and made one that truly multitasks.
Click to expand...

I think what Apple is going for with their interface is less of a Palm Pilot and more of a OS X type thing. Those icons across the bottom are called the dock. Something Apple also owns a patent for. You have to realize that the iPhone is running Mac OS X. So when they used the "icons across the bottom like Palm" I think they were confident in the fact that doing so was perfectly legal/
However, I do agree with you on the multitasking.
 
Well I do agree that it's ridiculous to claim that Apple invented it, you can't deny the fact that they hold the patents for it.
Click to expand...

Of course we can deny that "fact", because it's not true. Apple has no patent on multitouch or pinch.

Moreover, the recent limited patent cites previous inventions that Apple themselves took and combined together.

For instance, one of those patents is from 2002 for a mobile browser that shows an entire web page at once, on which you tap your area of interest, and it zooms into that part of the page.
 
I think several of you are missing the point. I mentioned before that I think it's perfectly acceptable to use concepts like gestures and multi-touch to create something unique.

What's completely unacceptable in my mind, however, is creating carbon copies of entire applications and interfaces. Most of the Pre is unique and innovative. The browswer, however, is certainly not!

Palm isn't "using an idea" for the browser to build something great of their own, they're stealing the entire package.

Inventors need the right to have their innovations protected. This isn't China; IP (rightly) matters here.
 
BoulderBum said:
What's completely unacceptable in my mind, however, is creating carbon copies of entire applications and interfaces.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a carbon copy. The menus are very different, for one thing. I didn't see the same tab paradigm either.

Apple combined pieces from others, and that's okay. It's also okay to take Apple's collection and go forward from there.

Companies pick the best features from each other and use them. I LIKE when that happens. Gives me more choice of devices. And each one starts from a better place.
 
kdarling said:
I don't think it's a carbon copy. The menus are very different, for one thing. I didn't see the same tab paradigm either.
Click to expand...

I'm refering to the browser, not the whole Palm OS. Most of Pre is pretty unique, but see the video of the browser I linked to in the original post.

The browser is pretty much a carbon copy of Apple's Mobile Safari.
 
A browser is a browser, there isn't a lot of innovation to be found in that sector. Hell, Opera Mobile is available for nearly every j2me enabled phone, and that does page view, click to zoom, and screen rotation too. And its been around longer than the iPhone.
 
drichards said:
A browser is a browser, there isn't a lot of innovation to be found in that sector. Hell, Opera Mobile is available for nearly every j2me enabled phone, and that does page view, click to zoom, and screen rotation too. And its been around longer than the iPhone.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the iphone browser is way better than opera mobile..although opera mobile is way better than PIE. It's a vicious cycle:cool:
 
drichards said:
A browser is a browser, there isn't a lot of innovation to be found in that sector.
Click to expand...

Strongly disagree there. After being a Windows Mobile user for years, trying Nokia and Blackberry browsers, and giving each a fair evaluation, I switched to the iPhone partly because of the powerful browser. The competition couldn't treat the web like the web, either the pages were garbled to try to fit a small space, the sites were reduced to weak mobile versions, Javascript and AJAX weren't support and/or scrolling and zooming suffered from usability problems.

Mobile Safari is one of the strongest selling points of the iPhone (and the feature I most show off).

Apple nearly perfected the mobile browser with accelerometer reorientation, gestures to scroll, tapping to enlarge sections, and (most importantly) pinch to zoom. The Pre copied all of these features with a nearly identical implmentation of each.
 
My buddy's WinMo HTC touch has most of the same properties for the browser, nothing to get antsy about.
 
These discussions always go stupid about a post or two in because nobody knows the difference between using another idea and copyright/patent infringement. I don't know what patents who holds, but Apple's pinching and flicking to zoom are more likely to be copyrighted than just plain touch screen technology.

Putting buttons at the bottom of a phone is definitely something that isn't copyrightable because it's too generic. But inner workings of phone software that most of us don't see or even notice are probably copyrighted/patented.

One other thing people need to learn is there are millions of things in tech that are used under a license from the patent-holder. I think Toshiba holds the patent on DVD, which means everybody who uses DVD tech pays them. Same with Blu-ray and Sony. The iPhone uses Bluetooth and WiFi, which are both patented.
 
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