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Pro Tools, Reason, Rewire, and the current PB lineup

I

imaginaryponds@

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 8, 2004
11
0
NYC, FLA, VT, CA
Is there anybody out there regularly using Reason and Pro Tools through Rewire on either a 1.25 or 1.33 PB? How does it run? Do you get the error messages i get in PT, i.e, "-error, cpu too slow..."(paraphrase). Sometimes Reason literally gives me an error, saying that my computer is too slow to play they song. I'm using a 667 titanium with a gig of RAM...certainly not the fastest kid on the block, but not necessarily a slouch either.
I, like everyone else, am debating whether or not to buy now, or wait. If i knew for sure that I could do the kind of stuff i want to do on a 1.25 or 1.33, i'd buy one tomorrow. I'm usually running at least one "Rverb" and a few "RCompressors" in PT, and a bunch of "screams" and "verbs" in Reason. Pretty intensive stuff. Someone just give me a shout if you do comparable stuff...
 
hmm..

well i use dp4 and reason often on a 1.25 ghz powerbook and it runs very very smoothly

how many tracks do you want? i can get practically a full orchestra.

now i havn't been using it with pro tools that much. From friends who do use it with same/similar setups as me say that pro tools is a bit shaky as far as midi goes. not only in its interface but speed too.

now on whether to wait or not... i perosonally would wait till the next powerbook lines and get the newest and the best. thats me, but i like to get things new, and if i were you i would easily be able to wait a few months, though i doubt the wait will be more than a few weeks. but whatever is out at that time i'm sure will handle everything well... oh btw... bounce a few of the tracks to audio and print any effects you have on them, that should speed things up too
 
I use Reason 2.0, and cubase sx 2.0 on my 15" 1.25 ghz PowerBook. Reason runs great. Cubase runs well, but I have had occassional freeze ups, although I would say that they're 10.3 compatibility issues more than anything. I've had no rewire related freezing though. If you can wait, I'd probably suggest it, but I also wouldn't hesitate to tell you that this system is great. If you lots of extra cash, go for it, otherwise, I'm sure updates can't be too far off, although I told that to myself for about 8 months last year.
 
i run Reason and PTLE on an 800 MHz g3/ibook. they run fine, but i reserve any rewire-type work for my tower. for PTLE, it's a tracking machine only (i.e. no plugs).

are you running your audio tracks off an external drive?
 
Reason 2.5 and Protools LE 6.2.3 is like butter on an 867mhz 12" powerbook (Panther 10.3.3).
running about 16 channels of audio, alot of FX in Reason, and then Waves Linear Multiband enhancer and L2 in Protools. the Waves LinMB is the biggest processor hog of them all, when i can do without it i dont use it, or if i'm hitting the ceiling i just do it in post with Bias Peak 4

Reason is an EXTREMELY effecient program, especially in terms of its Altivec optimization. That said, the 1.25ghz should suit you just fine. but i'd expect powerbook updates before june, if you can wait it will be worth it - you could expect the 15" to go up to 1.33 - 1.4 ghz.

are you just running Protools for mixing and to add VST FX? if that is the case, might i recommend Ableton Live 3 via rewire. It can be less of a processor hog than Protools if you use it solely for rewire and VST FX, and better yet when Live 4 comes out this summer, it will have altivec optimization and should be even more effecient.
 
forgot to ask... which 667mhz TiBook do you have? the DVI? or the Gigabit Ethernet version? I ask because there was a sizable performance difference between the two. the Gigabit had a 256k L2 cache and no L3 (in audio apps it performed as well as the 400mhz TiBook), the DVI added 1MB L3 which helps alot in realtime audio work. either way you would see a gigantic increase in performance with the newer powerbooks, not only because of CPU frequency, but the ATA bus is 34MB/sec faster, 512k L2 cache, more front side bus speed, 2.5 times faster ram, twice the video ram. so every aspect of the machine is faster.
 
Thanks everbody for your replies. I have the 667 DVI version. Basically, i'm a song writer, and the way i use Reason and PT through Rewire is, i'll lay down some guitar, banjo, manolin, put some vocals on, then i i'm adding the "band" with Reason. I've been doing all this for about 2 years and a half, i've become pretty proficicent at it, but the more complicated the stuff i do gets, the less my computer wants to cooperate. Here's a few links:

A song using the reason vocoder (which tends to eat a lot of resources, believe it or not):
http://www.songfight.org/music/firebomb/novoxtherobot_fb.mp3
Here's one where i layed down the banjo/vox, then went back in Reason and added piano and vibes, drums (the important thing is that i did it in REAL time, through rewire. i used to simply make a backing track in reason, then export each track, import them in to PT, etc, but this way, i can get a certain "performance" feel):
http://www.songfight.org/music/crinkle_binkle/fortysecondsongs_crinkle.mp3

those are some examples of the sort of range of stuff i'm trying to do. On the first song, once it got pretty complicated, PT was giving me the "not enough CPU" message every other time i tried to work on it. Plus, bouncing becomes a problem, stopping half way through the bounce to say "not enough CPU". oy

It sounds as though you folks arn't really having the same problems with your faster computers...which is encouraging. I am very tempted to wait, i understand the whole "163 days:206 days" thing that's going on. I must admit though, i simply have a case of computer lust. The idea of being able to do more complicated stuff "today", is just as, if not more, tempting.
 
i'm not exactly sure what kind of sound you're looking for. i can identify the folk song sound and it's good, but i'm not sure you really need to throw all sorts of effects on top of it that would make the processor slow. it tends to take the focus off of the songwriting. i would be curious to hear the crinkle binkle song with only the banjo and vocals. while it would be tempting i'm sure to keep throwing stuff on top of it, you don't want to over-produce. plan things out, be picky, orchestrate meticulously.
 
Well, yes and no. I tend to want to do a wide variety of sounds, from the more electronic, to the stripped down acoustic as well. To really pop-rock, to string quartets. So yeah.
 
Thanks for posting the songs imaginaryponds. They sound exploratory. Why ifjake would suggest that you stiffle your creative flow, I'm not sure. If you don't try new sounds and combinations, you'll just sound like everyone else
 
imaginaryponds@ said:
A song using the reason vocoder (which tends to eat a lot of resources, believe it or not):
http://www.songfight.org/music/firebomb/novoxtherobot_fb.mp3
Click to expand...
yeah, i'm not a fan of the vocoder there. you've got a lot of cool stuff going on and it sounds like you've got a nice voice. wearing my producer hat, i say i'd like to hear that voice.

http://www.songfight.org/music/crinkle_binkle/fortysecondsongs_crinkle.mp3
Click to expand...
i was right, you do have a nice voice.

yes, it is cool you're trying to do interesting things (i.e. vocoder). for the robot song, i could see it being effective:
- on the vox coming out of the bridge
- on some backing tracks, lightly used

my two cents

regarding your mac, is a portable a requirement? your CPU-power bang-for-the-buck is better w/ a tower. i'm constantly running out of CPU-power when mixing on my tower. damn hungry plug-ins...
 
thanks for your comments. in terms of the music, you can hear more at www.jonathanmann.net. The vocoder stuff is part of a "concept" album of sorts, involving a robot...if you want to know the full stroy, feel free to e-mail me.

In terms of a tower, i've totally been struggling with whether to get the highest level PB, or the highest level tower. the PM ends up being way more expensive, because of the screen. What kind of towers do people have? how's a dual 2 ghz handle heavy audio stuff?

thanks again ;)
 
imaginaryponds@ said:
What kind of towers do people have? how's a dual 2 ghz handle heavy audio stuff?
Click to expand...
i'd love to have that g5; can't afford it now, though. am thinking about picking up a giga designs CPU upgrade...

i've got a dual g4x500 w/ 1 gig RAM. the bottleneck is the CPU. i can bring the machine to its knees by adding a couple PSP Vintage Warmers.

for reference, i'll list the track count and plugs of two songs i'm mixing w/ the CPU just below max. (i.e. i can't add any more plugs)

song 1
32 tracks
plugs:
BF la-2a
BF Fairchild 660
DVerb x2
BF Purple MC77
Compressor x2
4-band EQ
1-band EQ x2
PSP Vintage Warmer
POWr Dither

song 2
18 tracks
plugs:
PSP Vintage Warmer x3
BF la-2a x2
BF la-3a
BF Purple MC77 x2
DVerb
BF Pultec MEQ-5
POWr Dither

hope that helps

edit:
i use PTLE 6.2.3 on OSX 10.3.2 w/ a digi002r. 1 gig RAM.
 
A quick question. I just used Reason for the first time last night on my friend's Windows laptop. Now I'm this close to buying a Powerbook for next school year. How exactly did you guys get Reason for the Mac? Did you actually pay for it? How much does it run for on the Mac?
 
Gherkin said:
How exactly did you guys get Reason for the Mac? Did you actually pay for it? How much does it run for on the Mac?
Click to expand...
of course i paid for it. everyone should. it's a great program and propellorhead needs the money to make more great products.

i think it's in the $330 range
 
Gherkin said:
A quick question. I just used Reason for the first time last night on my friend's Windows laptop. Now I'm this close to buying a Powerbook for next school year. How exactly did you guys get Reason for the Mac? Did you actually pay for it? How much does it run for on the Mac?
Click to expand...

$350, the software comes as PC/MAC hybrid cds.
if you are a student, there is an ED discount and it costs $230 at audiomidi.com

worth every penny i would say. it has totally changed how i make music. where i used to be tied to hardware synthesizers and samplers, now i can use those same samples in reason with a cleaner output and my energy bill is much lower. Though now i am getting more into Reaktor, Reason is an extremely useful piece of software.

here's some of my music:
http://www.subterror.com/azurerecords/music/AdamJayFeb03Track3.mp3
http://www.subterror.com/azurerecords/music/AdamJayApr03Track4.mp3
 
Bit late in here, but I run Reason 2.5 and ProTools 6.2.3 on a 1Ghz 17" PB, plus ProTools HD3 on a 2Ghz G5 with a pair of 23" Cinemas in the studio, I find that as long as I run the stereo out from Reason into the PT mixer and not individual tracks whilst I'm composing then it all runs very well, I usually import the Reason tracks individually into PT prior to bouncing the lot into the HD for audio tracking and mixing.

The PB handles an altiverb for general reverb, and I use TC or Bomb Factory plugs for dynamics and EQ, in the HD we have pretty much everything, quad Altiverb, Sony EQ, all the Focusrites, some GML, Logic's suite (that Space Designer is excellent).

The DP G5 runs with the new axcel cards and is the best audio computer I've ever used, running into a Dynaudio Air 5.1 rig, it's a real treat, I have yet to run it close to processor capacity, mind those axcel cards are the mutts nuts.

I think the Reason/PTLE combination on a G4 PB is very cool as long as you don't expect it to be limitless, you use your aux's for a reverb or two and your happy to bounce a lot of stuff to audio rather than leave tons of plugs active.
 
I know my way around Pro Tools, but what are the other industry leading programs out there for Macs?

If I were trying to collect all the kick-ass editing programs out there, what would be on the list besides Pro Tools and Logic. I've never used Reason, but it seems to get a lot of hype.
 
Soire said:
I know my way around Pro Tools, but what are the other industry leading programs out there for Macs?

If I were trying to collect all the kick-ass editing programs out there, what would be on the list besides Pro Tools and Logic. I've never used Reason, but it seems to get a lot of hype.
Click to expand...
editing or DAW? kickass or popular?

from what i hear, the most kickass editing and sounding HD-based recording system is the iZ Radar. but it's not a DAW. (1)

others rave about Samplitude and Paris. (2)

popular are DP, Cubase/Nuendo, Ableton Live.

(1) runs on its own hardware
(2) not for mac
 
Does anyone know of any good online manuals or tutorials for using Reason with Protools. I got Reason with my Mbox, and I'd like to use it to do things I used to do with Fruityloops on the PC. However the Reason interface is just too complicated (i.e. full featured) for me to screw around with and figure stuff out on my own. Thanks!
 
http://www.mtlc.net

mtlc is a legit company and I got reason 2.0 from them last january for 199. I also got cubase sx 2.0 for 388. Both of those are really good prices if you've ever priced this junk out. I don't know what they charge for 2.5 but it should be the same. I suggest that anyone who is in the market check them out.
 
i have the 1.25GHz powerbook running protools/reason/live/peak very nicely. reason and live are not so cpu hungry even via rewire, and one just simply cannot kill this cpu with peak (2ch audio), but with protools i could use some more power.

with the powerbook i can easily do a live FOH mixing with 16 audio inputs and 8 outputs (stereo main mix plus stereo monitor mix [wireless] plus four mono monitor mixes), having external reverb via spdif i/o. i can also add eq/dynamics for each channel and some additional plugs in the aux submixes, but as a live situation i need to spare such a cpu reserve there will never be any nasty surprises. meaning, i only hit 75% when doing live.

usually i don't try to record the stuff when i do FOH, but it should be possible anyway. i've used to record live gigs only when i take the signal from analog console's direct outs [meaning if protools should crash, nobody in the crowd knows about it].

so yes, powerbook is a powerful beast even without G5; however one gigabyte of ram and 7200rpm internal hard drive will help a lot.
 
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