Problem with images displaying differently on other devices

[Astrohunter]

Hi,

I'm using a Mac with LG OLED TV, my colour profile is set to "LG TV SSCR2".

I'm doing astrophotography using Pixinsight and normal daily photos, and the issue is that they won't display in the same way on for example my iPhone 13 Pro Max.

Especially when it comes to brightness, they look sometimes way brighter on iPhone.

I've tried changing my colour profile in settings to Adobe RGB 1998 or Display P3, but it makes everything look a bit washed, like not enough saturated and perhaps lack of contrast when I look at my Mac dock icons etc.

So, any tips how do I get my images to look almost 1:1 on my TV and iPhone?



Thanks

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Personally I tweak my computer display so that it is as close of a match as possible to the prints I receive from a calibrated printer.

Only share with a secondary computer and I don't really worry if there is a bit of a mismatch as I have deliberately biased the secondary computer a shade yellow and dark to make it easier on the eyes.

 

[Astrohunter]

Personally I tweak my computer display so that it is as close of a match as possible to the prints I receive from a calibrated printer.

Only share with a secondary computer and I don't really worry if there is a bit of a mismatch as I have deliberately biased the secondary computer a shade yellow and dark to make it easier on the eyes.

Well I don't do prints, I mostly keep photos/images for myself, and it's annoying that the result differs on my Mac and iPhone. Not sure how to fix that.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Computer should be easy to calibrate either in system settings or on the monitor. Here's a link for your iPhone, hopefully not too old. TV should also be easily calibrated, but you'll have to do your own search for that.

Use This Well-Hidden IOS Feature To Correct Your Apple Screens' Colors

Ever look at images on your phone or tablet and think the colors don't look quite right? Quickly and easily calibrate your screen with this lesser-known IOS feature. After replacing a smashed screen on my antique iPhone 5s, I noticed the colors didn't look quite right. A quick search in the...

fstoppers.com

 

[Apple fanboy]

I work for Europe’s leading colour management company and I can assure you what you are trying to do is not easy. You need to buy a couple of different tools to get different types of display to look closer.
What’s the end goal?

 

[Astrohunter]

The biggest issue for me is that when I edit astro photos in Pixinsight and export them, they look brighter in preview, Apple Photos on Mac/iOS, Pixelmator etc., which is frustrating.

The developer of Pixinsight said:

If the image looks slightly different outside PixInsight (brighter in this case), the most probable cause is the different monitor profiles used in PixInsight and the other applications. In PixInsight, under macOS and Windows, the monitor profile is set automatically to the system monitor profile by default, but you can force the use of a specific monitor profile using the ColorManagementSetup process, System Settings section (read the different tooltips to get complete information on the available options).

Another possible cause is the different color management engines used by different applications, as well as the different rendering intents applied to generate screen representations. PixInsight uses the LittleCMS engine, which is an industry-standard, open-source engine. LittleCMS is a high-performance, platform-independent color management engine, fully compliant with ICC standards. We always ensure that successive PixInsight builds use the latest LCMS versions. For screen renditions, we use perceptual rendering intents by default. This can also be changed using ColorManagementSetup. Maybe other applications are using saturation rendering intents, which tend to generate brighter and more saturated (and less accurate) screen renditions.

Here are my PI settings and Mac OS settings:




Perhaps anyone has any idea what I could try? As I'm totally lost.

 

[r.harris1]

What gamut range does your TV support? Does it actually support Adobe RGB or Display P3 to any meaningful percentage? Also, what’s the TV’s baseline luminance? If it’s too bright/too dim this could play a role in what you’re seeing. Is the TV calibrated for color? What happens when you try editing on another monitor, even if it’s a smaller but (perhaps) more color-correct laptop or, if available, a proper photography monitor that supports Adobe RGB/Display P3 profiles?

 

[Astrohunter]

What gamut range does your TV support? Does it actually support Adobe RGB or Display P3 to any meaningful percentage? Also, what’s the TV’s baseline luminance? If it’s too bright/too dim this could play a role in what you’re seeing. Is the TV calibrated for color? What happens when you try editing on another monitor, even if it’s a smaller but (perhaps) more color-correct laptop or, if available, a proper photography monitor that supports Adobe RGB/Display P3 profiles?

I don't really know, my TV is LG OLED55CX5LB.

According to GPT (so not to be fully trusted)

• 55-inch OLED panel with 4K Ultra HD resolution (3840 x 2160 pixels)
• Supports HDR formats: HDR10, Dolby Vision, and HLG
• Perfect black levels and infinite contrast ratio

The baseline luminance (also referred to as the typical SDR brightness) of the LG OLED55CX5LB is around 150–180 nits for standard SDR content.

For HDR content, peak brightness can reach approximately 700–800 nits in small highlight areas, but full-screen brightness remains lower compared to LED/LCD TVs.

I don't own any other displays, other than my iPhone 13 Pro Max. 😁

 

[r.harris1]

I don't really know, my TV is LG OLED55CX5LB.

According to GPT (so not to be fully trusted)

• 55-inch OLED panel with 4K Ultra HD resolution (3840 x 2160 pixels)
• Supports HDR formats: HDR10, Dolby Vision, and HLG
• Perfect black levels and infinite contrast ratio

I don't own any other displays, other than my iPhone 13 Pro Max. 😁

While I would never say "never," it will be challenging to get things to match, at the very least. You could potentially get a device to calibrate the TV, but it's not clear what color space you'd be going after or if it's even calibratable.

EDIT: I guess that TV has some level of support for DCI-P3 so consider doing things like adjusting brightness/luminance to see if that makes a difference. Also consider that TVs are built for watching, well, TV , so it could be true that saturation and contrast settings are affecting things too. Lots of variables here.

 

[Astrohunter]

While I would never say "never," it will be challenging to get things to match, at the very least. You could potentially get a device to calibrate the TV, but it's not clear what color space you'd be going after or if it's even calibratable.

EDIT: I guess that TV has some level of support for DCI-P3 so consider doing things like adjusting brightness/luminance to see if that makes a difference. Also consider that TVs are built for watching, well, TV , so it could be true that saturation and contrast settings are affecting things too. Lots of variables here.

So should I choose different colour profile and then play with TV settings?

What I don’t understand is why when I export an image from Pixinsight other programs display it brighter.
When exporting I select the ICC profile include option.

If Pixinsight is using my current profile to display stuff, then other programs do too (whole system does?), this is what confuses me.

 

[r.harris1]

So should I choose different colour profile and then play with TV settings?

What I don’t understand is why when I export an image from Pixinsight other programs display it brighter.
When exporting I select the ICC profile include option.

If Pixinsight is using my current profile to display stuff, then other programs do too (whole system does?), this is what confuses me.

The challenge is that you're going from something that is an unknown quantity (the TV) to something that's calibrated to a color space and a luminance (the iPhones, etc). If you edit on something that's too bright or too dim and in a different color space, it's going to look different. If you can calibrate yourTV to something known, you'll have a better chance of getting consistency. Dunno if those TVs are calibrateable however.

 

[Astrohunter]

The challenge is that you're going from something that is an unknown quantity (the TV) to something that's calibrated to a color space and a luminance (the iPhones, etc). If you edit on something that's too bright or too dim and in a different color space, it's going to look different. If you can calibrate yourTV to something known, you'll have a better chance of getting consistency. Dunno if those TVs are calibrateable however.

Yes but what I don't understand is, I have LG colour profile in settings, so it's applied system wide.
If I edit an image in Pixinsight and export it and watch it in any other software on Mac, it seems brighter than in Pixinsight.

PI developer said:

If the image looks slightly different outside PixInsight (brighter in this case), the most probable cause is the different monitor profiles used in PixInsight and the other applications. In PixInsight, under macOS and Windows, the monitor profile is set automatically to the system monitor profile by default, but you can force the use of a specific monitor profile using the ColorManagementSetup process, System Settings section (read the different tooltips to get complete information on the available options).

But I don't think that Preview on Mac, Pixelmator or Apple Photos are using different profile right?

It's really confusing.

 

[r.harris1]

Yes but what I don't understand is, I have LG colour profile in settings, so it's applied system wide.
If I edit an image in Pixinsight and export it and watch it in any other software on Mac, it seems brighter than in Pixinsight.

PI developer said:

But I don't think that Preview on Mac, Pixelmator or Apple Photos are using different profile right?

It's really confusing.

Somewhere, whatever profile you think is being applied isn’t being applied. Look at the exif data of an example exported JPEG to make sure your profile is referenced. Brighter/dimmer tells me there’s a calibration issue in your imaging path and this can happen on the same machine with different apps. I am not familiar with Pixinsight so I can’t help there as far as troubleshooting it specifically.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes but what I don't understand is, I have LG colour profile in settings, so it's applied system wide.
If I edit an image in Pixinsight and export it and watch it in any other software on Mac, it seems brighter than in Pixinsight.

PI developer said:

But I don't think that Preview on Mac, Pixelmator or Apple Photos are using different profile right?

It's really confusing.

Many different programs use different colour spaces.
As we have said the only way to do what you are after is to calibrate each device with a measuring tool, a colorimeter and set them to the same white point, brightness and colour settings whilst working in the same colourspace.

Without that it’s guess work. iPhones are not consistent when it comes to colour (just read the threads in here!).
So basically you have two devices that are incorrect, using different settings and different programs.

Your best bet is to just cycle through the settings and pick the one that is closest.

If you want accurate colour use a reference monitor like an Eizo or BenQ. That’s why those things cost more. They are designed for the job.

 

[Astrohunter]

Many different programs use different colour spaces.
As we have said the only way to do what you are after is to calibrate each device with a measuring tool, a colorimeter and set them to the same white point, brightness and colour settings whilst working in the same colourspace.

Without that it’s guess work. iPhones are not consistent when it comes to colour (just read the threads in here!).
So basically you have two devices that are incorrect, using different settings and different programs.

Your best bet is to just cycle through the settings and pick the one that is closest.

If you want accurate colour use a reference monitor like an Eizo or BenQ. That’s why those things cost more. They are designed for the job.

It’s not even about iPhone, if i export it it looks brighter on same device.
The file contains ICC profile data.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s not even about iPhone, if i export it it looks brighter on same device.
The file contains ICC profile data.

So you export what file type to what file type?

 

[Astrohunter]

So you export what file type to what file type?

I shoot RAW 16bit files with 2600MC Pro camera, then integrate/stack them in Pixinsight, after editing I export it to TIFF 16/32bit with ICC profile included.

The stacking process debayers all the frames.

From ChatGPT:

What Happens in PixInsight?


• RAW images from your ZWO ASI2600MC Pro do not have a predefined color profile like sRGB or Adobe RGB.


• PixInsight processes images in linear RGB space, typically in floating-point precision (32-bit or 16-bit).


• The internal color space is not directly tied to a standard display profile like sRGB, Adobe RGB, or P3, but rather a wide-gamut, high-bit-depth color space designed for astrophotography.


• When applying color calibration and stretching, you are still in this wide-gamut space.





Before Exporting: What Profile Does It Have?


• Inside PixInsight, your working image doesn’t technically have a standard display profile.


• If you use PixInsight’s ICC Profile Transformation process, you can assign a profile before exporting.