Prohibitory sign when attempting to install Leopard from USB on iBook G4 1.33 12"

[DarkerJ]

Hello, I recently installed a new 128 GB SSD on my iBook G4, and the DVD drive doesn't appear to be working. So I used the Open Firmware trick to get it to go via USB, by putting the stick with Leopard on it I made with TransMac in the USB port next the FireWire port and typing in boot /pci@f2000000/usb@1b/disk@1:,\\:tbxi. Then it does its thing, shows the apple logo like its gonna boot up and then the prohibitory sign. What am I doing wrong? I tried resetting the NVRAM on it, no go, so what I'm gonna try to do is try to put Debian on a USB stick and try to use that to format the volume with HFS and perhaps install it as well.

I don't have any other Macs except an iBook G3/500 with Mac OS 9 and 10.2.8 on it. If that can help me, let me know.

 

[eyoungren]

The prohibitory sign means the Mac cannot find a boot device.

How did you make the Leopard boot disk?

 

[DarkerJ]

The prohibitory sign means the Mac cannot find a boot device.

How did you make the Leopard boot disk?

Using TransMac on Windows to restore the leopard DMG to the flash drive.

 

[eyoungren]

How did you partition the flash drive?
APM, GUID or MBR?

The flash drive needs to be APM on a PowerPC Mac. GUID is Intel Mac and MBR is Windows.

 

[DeltaMac]

The prohibitory sign means the Mac cannot find a boot device.

How did you make the Leopard boot disk?

Eh, not exactly. The prohibitory sign means that there is something wrong with the bootable system, either a missing file, or attempting to boot to an incorrect version, or incorrect boot files. I think the most likely is that transmac is not making a Mac-bootable device, probably because the iBook G4 needs to boot to APM, not MBR, and definitely not GUID.

 

[eyoungren]

Eh, not exactly. The prohibitory sign means that there is something wrong with the bootable system, either a missing file, or attempting to boot to an incorrect version, or incorrect boot files.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[MacCubed]

Also try boot ud:,\\:tbxi

 

[DarkerJ]

Eh, not exactly. The prohibitory sign means that there is something wrong with the bootable system, either a missing file, or attempting to boot to an incorrect version, or incorrect boot files. I think the most likely is that transmac is not making a Mac-bootable device, probably because the iBook G4 needs to boot to APM, not MBR, and definitely not GUID.

I'm not sure if TransMac will format to APM. Should I use Disk Utility in Jaguar to reformat the drive?

 

[DeltaMac]

That would work. Be sure to do that using the Partition tab in Disk Utility, the Options button will make sure that you use Apple Partition format.

 

[DarkerJ]

That would work. Be sure to do that using the Partition tab in Disk Utility, the Options button will make sure that you use Apple Partition format.

When I copy back the DMG, will TransMac respect the APM already on the disk?

 

[DeltaMac]

Yes, as long as you don't let Windows format the disk - Windows will likely ask to format, because it's not a readable format in Windows. Just stay within Transmac. Restore the disk image to the USB drive, and you should be good to install.

 

[DarkerJ]

That would work. Be sure to do that using the Partition tab in Disk Utility, the Options button will make sure that you use Apple Partition format.

The only thing under options in Disk Utility in 10.2.8 is Install Mac OS 9 Disk Drivers. Will this make absolutely sure APM is on the disk?

 

[DeltaMac]

Eh, yes, that's likely OK. Certainly you don't need the OS 9 drivers, but won't interfere with booting to the iBook either.
Don't have Jaguar around any more, but try:
Disk Utility, then the Partition tab. You have to select the device line, and not a partition to see the tab. Click the partition layout dropdown that allows you to do multiple partitions, then select 1 Partition. Now, the Options button should show you choice for PC-DOS or Fat32 format. If the only option is OS 9 drivers, then just leave it blank.
Click OK, then name your partition, if you like, and make sure it is set for Mac OS Extended (journaled), then click the Apply button. In a few seconds, should be done, and should be ready to use for the disk image through TransMac. Again, Windows will complain about the disk format, but just ignore that, and let Transmac do its work.

 

[chrfr]

The only thing under options in Disk Utility in 10.2.8 is Install Mac OS 9 Disk Drivers. Will this make absolutely sure APM is on the disk?

GUID wasn't in OS X when 10.2.8 was current, so APM was all it did.

 

[redhatcode29]

GUID wasn't in OS X when 10.2.8 was current, so APM was all it did.

Yeah... I remember myself wondering y the Guid option was not there....

On another note.... An ibook or powerbook g4 can boot from an usb ? I assumed that since i cant install osx on an external hdd via usb, the same applied gor the install source..

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I'm not sure if TransMac will format to APM. Should I use Disk Utility in Jaguar to reformat the drive?

You've got Jaguar on your iBook? I've found USB booting on pre-G5 Macs to be a pain in the ass, you should try writing the DMG directly to your hard drive and then boot from there.

 

[DarkerJ]

Eh, yes, that's likely OK. Certainly you don't need the OS 9 drivers, but won't interfere with booting to the iBook either.
Don't have Jaguar around any more, but try:
Disk Utility, then the Partition tab. You have to select the device line, and not a partition to see the tab. Click the partition layout dropdown that allows you to do multiple partitions, then select 1 Partition. Now, the Options button should show you choice for PC-DOS or Fat32 format. If the only option is OS 9 drivers, then just leave it blank.
Click OK, then name your partition, if you like, and make sure it is set for Mac OS Extended (journaled), then click the Apply button. In a few seconds, should be done, and should be ready to use for the disk image through TransMac. Again, Windows will complain about the disk format, but just ignore that, and let Transmac do its work.

So I tried that, didn't work. Strangely though, my iBook G3, while holding down the option button, saw the USB drive as a bootable volume, without any openfirmware hacks. So I selected it, and it began starting up, spinning Apple logo and everything! Of course it stayed on that screen, Leopard doesn't work on a G3, but how come my G3 sees it as valid but not my G4? Is there something going wrong here?

If its any help to you, theres a DVD stuck in the drive, from my previous attempt to install OS X from DVD. Open Firmware says "eject cd cant OPEN the EJECT device" but it still spins up. Could this be the culprit of the problem? If so, how do I manually remove the disc out of there?

 

[DeltaMac]

You can eject the DVD by restarting your iBook while holding the trackpad button down. The DVD will eject shortly after the screen lights up.
Note - the trackpad button to eject the DVD during boot might not work, I have seen it to be unreliable on some iBooks.
So, plug in a USB mouse, and hold the left button down while you boot up. It will sometimes work better if you shut the iBook completely off first (press and hold the power button for 5 seconds, and it will go off. Or, hold Control-Option-Shift, then press the power button, and your iBook will shut off instantly (it's a reset, and shuts it off)
Then, press and release the power button, then hold the trackpad, or left-mouse button.

 

[DarkerJ]

Eh, yes, that's likely OK. Certainly you don't need the OS 9 drivers, but won't interfere with booting to the iBook either.
Don't have Jaguar around any more, but try:
Disk Utility, then the Partition tab. You have to select the device line, and not a partition to see the tab. Click the partition layout dropdown that allows you to do multiple partitions, then select 1 Partition. Now, the Options button should show you choice for PC-DOS or Fat32 format. If the only option is OS 9 drivers, then just leave it blank.
Click OK, then name your partition, if you like, and make sure it is set for Mac OS Extended (journaled), then click the Apply button. In a few seconds, should be done, and should be ready to use for the disk image through TransMac. Again, Windows will complain about the disk format, but just ignore that, and let Transmac do its work.

You can eject the DVD by restarting your iBook while holding the trackpad button down. The DVD will eject shortly after the screen lights up.
Note - the trackpad button to eject the DVD during boot might not work, I have seen it to be unreliable on some iBooks.
So, plug in a USB mouse, and hold the left button down while you boot up. It will sometimes work better if you shut the iBook completely off first (press and hold the power button for 5 seconds, and it will go off. Or, hold Control-Option-Shift, then press the power button, and your iBook will shut off instantly (it's a reset, and shuts it off)
Then, press and release the power button, then hold the trackpad, or left-mouse button.

Got it out, its not the problem. But how come my G3 recognized it but my G4 wont recognize it from the option boot menu?

 

[chrfr]

Got it out, its not the problem. But how come my G3 recognized it but my G4 wont recognize it from the option boot menu?

It's not uncommon for optical drives to have the DVD reading functionality fail while the drive will continue to be able to read CDs. They use different lasers, or at least used to.

 

[DeltaMac]

Got it out, its not the problem. But how come my G3 recognized it but my G4 wont recognize it from the option boot menu?

You will have to get your answer to THAT from someone with knowledge of the technical challenges of booting to USB.
Generally speaking, PPC Macs can boot to USB, and those that can boot natively to MacOS 9 can also usually boot to the OS X installer on USB. That would include your iBook G3! The later PPC Macs that dropped OS 9 booting are less easy to boot through USB, too. I think it is related to the addition of USB 2.0
It varies between Mac models. But, the Open Firmware command is what you need to boot from USB.
This page has most everything to do that.

(The ideal method is to boot through the Firewire bus.)

 

[DarkerJ]

You will have to get your answer to THAT from someone with knowledge of the technical challenges of booting to USB.
Generally speaking, PPC Macs can boot to USB, and those that can boot natively to MacOS 9 can also usually boot to the OS X installer on USB. That would include your iBook G3! The later PPC Macs that dropped OS 9 booting are less easy to boot through USB, too. I think it is related to the addition of USB 2.0
It varies between Mac models. But, the Open Firmware command is what you need to boot from USB.
This page has most everything to do that.

(The ideal method is to boot through the Firewire bus.)

But is there any reason why I'd get the prohibitory sign through it? I don't want to try anything else unless I know what the problem might be. Should I try to make a Linux USB to format the SSD? Maybe it won't boot because it can't find any disks to install to?

 

[DeltaMac]

No.
It would still boot to the installer, even if you have no hard drive installed at all.

I suspect that your USB installer is simply incorrectly built, and might not boot anything in its present condition.

I suggest redoing your USB stick (again)...
Here's what works for me:
Erase the USB stick.
Boot to the Leopard installer DVD.
Use the Disk Utility/Restore tab to Restore the DVD to the flash drive.
You can do this most easily on a somewhat-newer Intel Mac, where you can make sure the USB stick is APM, and NOT GUID format. The Leopard USB installer will boot an Intel Mac, and is universal - also booting any PPC Mac that supports Leopard. Plus, you don't even need a Mac that boots Leopard to do the restore on the flash drive. I have done that from a Mac running Lion.
One problem that I expect you have - The Leopard installer DVD is really sensitive to optical drive condition, and DVD surface condition, and can be challenging to get ANY Mac to boot to the DVD. But - creating (restoring) the DVD to a flash drive, or to a partition on an external hard drive, will give you a reliable booting installer, where the original DVD might fail to boot completely, often with the prohibited symbol that you get.

Not to repeat myself, but I feel this is important. Try to remake the USB stick. I think that is your "key" .
It's possible that a stick that you have used for other storage might be an issue, too, so I suggest you purchase a new 8GB flash drive just for this purpose, and erase that new stick to be sure about the APM format before you start the restore task.

 

[DarkerJ]

No.
It would still boot to the installer, even if you have no hard drive installed at all.

I suspect that your USB installer is simply incorrectly built, and might not boot anything in its present condition.

I suggest redoing your USB stick (again)...
Here's what works for me:
Erase the USB stick.
Boot to the Leopard installer DVD.
Use the Disk Utility/Restore tab to Restore the DVD to the flash drive.
You can do this most easily on a somewhat-newer Intel Mac, where you can make sure the USB stick is APM, and NOT GUID format. The Leopard USB installer will boot an Intel Mac, and is universal - also booting any PPC Mac that supports Leopard. Plus, you don't even need a Mac that boots Leopard to do the restore on the flash drive. I have done that from a Mac running Lion.
One problem that I expect you have - The Leopard installer DVD is really sensitive to optical drive condition, and DVD surface condition, and can be challenging to get ANY Mac to boot to the DVD. But - creating (restoring) the DVD to a flash drive, or to a partition on an external hard drive, will give you a reliable booting installer, where the original DVD might fail to boot completely, often with the prohibited symbol that you get.

Not to repeat myself, but I feel this is important. Try to remake the USB stick. I think that is your "key" .
It's possible that a stick that you have used for other storage might be an issue, too, so I suggest you purchase a new 8GB flash drive just for this purpose, and erase that new stick to be sure about the APM format before you start the restore task.

Should I just nab a new Leopard DVD and use an external DVD drive? I don't have access to any Intel Macs at all. (my school has Intel Macs, but they might think I'm doing something dubious on their computers) Now another thing I can do after I get the Leopard disc, is use my G3 (it has a DVD drive, that works of course) to copy that DVD over to a flash drive (at blazing USB 1.1 speeds, but I guess that will have to do), and since Jaguar only does APM

But, if my G3 can start booting from it, and not the G4, I think there's something else wrong here. If there was a problem with the stick I was using, wouldn't my G3 also throw out the prohibitory sign? Also, I've been using 16 GB drives. I have an 8 GB drive, should I use that?

What I'm gonna do tonight is 1. Use TransMac to copy the disc image itself over to an HFS formatted flash drive 2. Use Disk Utility in Jaguar to copy that DMG over to another flash drive. This will take a long time, but I'd rather waste time than money. (plus I can sleep on it)

 

[DeltaMac]

The G3 can't boot from Leopard, but may start to boot. It's likely just another difference with the boot rom on older Macs, compared to (slightly) newer Macs. I'm not sure if the firmware will show the "prohibited sign" icon, or it just shows a kernel panic, or maybe just stops booting, and does nothing visible. I don't have one now to see what response it would normally show.
The 16GB sticks shouldn't make any difference, but 8GB is a better 'fit'. Any OS X will fit within 8GB (so far)
I THINK you could use the G3 iBook to make the flash drive installer, but I never tried building a Leopard installer, using a G3 running Jaguar. As you say, it will take quite a long time to do it with USB 1.1, but if all else fails, it would be worth the try, I suppose.