Question about page outs and ram?

[Irock619]

Ok guys I've done some research and I read that the more page outs, the more ram you may need. Since my last re-start, which was a few days ago, I am showing on iStat that my page out is 270 kb/s (4.92 GB). Should I be going by whats in the parenthesis?

I have a 2011 15" MBP with 4GB of ram. I am thinking about getting 8GB because my computer has been a bit sluggish while uploading videos to youtube, surfing the web, MS Word, and iPhoto at the same time. I have been getting the beach ball a lot lately. I know ram is really cheap and it wouldn't hurt getting more. However I don't want to spend $50 if I don't need to. Any info would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[-aggie-]

It's the GB number. Restart your Mac and report back.

 

[Irock619]

It's the GB number. Restart your Mac and report back.

Should I restart and report back right away? Or should I wait a day or so?

 

[-aggie-]

Should I restart and report back right away? Or should I wait a day or so?

Wait a day. If it runs back up, then you need more RAM. I suspect you probably do anyway.

 

[Irock619]

Wait a day. If it runs back up, then you need more RAM. I suspect you probably do anyway.

Ok I'll wait a day and see what it says. So, how can it say over 4GB when all I have is 4GB? Also right now it says 6.37GB.

 

[Astroboy907]

Ok I'll wait a day and see what it says. So, how can it say over 4GB when all I have is 4GB? Also right now it says 6.37GB.

The page outs is the size of files that the RAM moved out for new programs.

You can run a whole laptop and have zero pageouts, it just depends how many programs you are running and how much RAM they use. The RAM can only hold 4 gb of files, so when your programs ask more than that they have to move around files to the hard disk. Upgrade to 8gb, and you should see some performance increase, maybe not in uploading stuff (probably your internet), but in general browsing and editing apps.

 

[Irock619]

The page outs is the size of files that the RAM moved out for new programs.

You can run a whole laptop and have zero pageouts, it just depends how many programs you are running and how much RAM they use. The RAM can only hold 4 gb of files, so when your programs ask more than that they have to move around files to the hard disk. Upgrade to 8gb, and you should see some performance increase, maybe not in uploading stuff (probably your internet), but in general browsing and editing apps.

Yeah I should just upgrade and forget about it. Also it'll improve the resale value of the computer. I'll post a screen shot tomorrow regardless and see what you guys think. Thanks for the replies

 

[Irock619]

This is what I'm currently using.....




It took a while just to upload this screen shot. I have not yet restarted my computer because I am currently uploading a video to youtube, which I do not do often.

 

[throAU]

The number in brackets is more accurate as to whether or not you need more ram. if it is often not zero (i.e., your machine is actively paging) then you need more ram.

Next time you think your machine is running slow, look in activity monitor and check the page out numbers in brackets. if it is high, then it means your mac is actively having to swap RAM out to disk because it has run out.

Paging is very slow compared to running from RAM.

If you had more ram, at that point it would not need to do so.


Some page outs are not bad if the bracketed number is not constantly non-zero. Inactive programs SHOULD be paged out to disk by a modern OS if the active application needs more RAM.

 

[Lance-AR]

It's safe to say go ahead and upgrade the RAM. Think of it as insurance towards Mountain Lion.

 

[Irock619]

The number in brackets is more accurate as to whether or not you need more ram. if it is often not zero (i.e., your machine is actively paging) then you need more ram.

Next time you think your machine is running slow, look in activity monitor and check the page out numbers in brackets. if it is high, then it means your mac is actively having to swap RAM out to disk because it has run out.

Paging is very slow compared to running from RAM.

If you had more ram, at that point it would not need to do so.


Some page outs are not bad if the bracketed number is not constantly non-zero. Inactive programs SHOULD be paged out to disk by a modern OS if the active application needs more RAM.

So in activity monitor it says (0 bytes/sec), but in iStat it says (6.37), do you think I need ram?

 

[thekev]

So in activity monitor it says (0 bytes/sec), but in iStat it says (6.37), do you think I need ram?

OSX has become more ram hungry with each revision, and going to at least 8GB is the absolute cheapest performance upgrade you could do to you computer, as you won't spend over $50 on a computer that was probably at least $2k. It won't speed everything up. You won't notice it all the time. It'll help keep it from slowing down at times, even if it doesn't fully solve the pageout issue. It's frequent to see suggestions of ssds on here, but I don't know how full your current drive is getting with photos and stuff. Even with ssds you do need some free space, and full drives tend to run into more issues.

OSX's file system is a little quirky. Sometimes you'll see a beach ball due to seeking, but ram is still much cheaper especially if you don't want to give up space, and even if someone suggests an ssd, I'd say ram is still superior when it comes to running more things at once.

 

[Astroboy907]

So in activity monitor it says (0 bytes/sec), but in iStat it says (6.37), do you think I need ram?

The bytes/sec is how much the system is CURRENTLY paging out. Run a heavy program, and the page outs should go up. iStat is displaying total RAM output, and the values should be similar after a restart, maybe not, I dont use iStat that much

 

[Irock619]

It's safe to say go ahead and upgrade the RAM. Think of it as insurance towards Mountain Lion.

That is true and a very good point. I wish these new programs didn't require so much computing power.

OSX has become more ram hungry with each revision, and going to at least 8GB is the absolute cheapest performance upgrade you could do to you computer, as you won't spend over $50 on a computer that was probably at least $2k. It won't speed everything up. You won't notice it all the time. It'll help keep it from slowing down at times, even if it doesn't fully solve the pageout issue. It's frequent to see suggestions of ssds on here, but I don't know how full your current drive is getting with photos and stuff. Even with ssds you do need some free space, and full drives tend to run into more issues.

OSX's file system is a little quirky. Sometimes you'll see a beach ball due to seeking, but ram is still much cheaper especially if you don't want to give up space, and even if someone suggests an ssd, I'd say ram is still superior when it comes to running more things at once.

I have a 500GB drive and I am only using 50GB lol, I have plenty of space left. I agree that ram is cheap and that even if I don't need it I should upgrade anyways, because why not?

The bytes/sec is how much the system is CURRENTLY paging out. Run a heavy program, and the page outs should go up. iStat is displaying total RAM output, and the values should be similar after a restart, maybe not, I dont use iStat that much

I restarted the computer and page out is back to 0's across the board. Activity monitor says 0 and iStat says 0KB/s (1MB). I am not sure which is more accurate. If I had to guess I'd say activity monitor.

 

[Astroboy907]

That is true and a very good point. I wish these new programs didn't require so much computing power.



I have a 500GB drive and I am only using 50GB lol, I have plenty of space left. I agree that ram is cheap and that even if I don't need it I should upgrade anyways, because why not?



I restarted the computer and page out is back to 0's across the board. Activity monitor says 0 and iStat says 0KB/s (1MB). I am not sure which is more accurate. If I had to guess I'd say activity monitor.

Probably not, Activity monitor (and OSX in general), is built so the user doesnt really see this info, iStat I believe is designed so that it uses the system counters and is very accurate.


If you are looking for RAM branding or prices, you can get some cheaper ram for about $35-40, on ebay, amazon, or whatever you use but I recommend Crucials ram (crucial.com), and an 8gb upgrade is around $50 for most laptops, they have a scanner app, and pretty dang fast shipping. I also have heard nothing but good about Other World Computing's ram (usually rebranded, macsales.com). Check your giftcards too, I am getting an 8gb upgrade for free because I have a B and H giftcard, apparently they sell RAM!

 

[Irock619]

Probably not, Activity monitor (and OSX in general), is built so the user doesnt really see this info, iStat I believe is designed so that it uses the system counters and is very accurate.

Ha, didn't think of that. Yeah, I was looking at the RAM on Amazon from Crucial. I am an Amazon freak lol! I love ordering from them and they have awesome customer service. I will probably end up ordering 2x4GB sticks from Amazon. Right now it shows $40 plus free shipping with my student prime account.

 

[throAU]

One other thing. re-starting your machine will reset things to 0 as you have found, until you start running low on ram.

You're typically not interested in what the numbers are after a restart, what they are while you are doing what you do is more relevant.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

This is what I'm currently using.....

View attachment 340555

It took a while just to upload this screen shot.

This screenshot is useless, because it does not show which applications use the RAM.

I see that you download torrents. In that case, a new IP address helps. Your ISP should give you a new IP address, if you make a new internet connection.

 

[dusk007]

Does nobody notice that in that screenshot it is 45MB of swap. That is nothing absolutely no need to change anything. If that is not soon after a restart I wouldn't worry about any more RAM.
Seeing what apps are running and actively using ram won't change the picture.
He is also not currently running any torrents thus it didn't impact his upload performance. It probably is just a slow internet connection.

 

[Irock619]

Does nobody notice that in that screenshot it is 45MB of swap. That is nothing absolutely no need to change anything. If that is not soon after a restart I wouldn't worry about any more RAM.
Seeing what apps are running and actively using ram won't change the picture.
He is also not currently running any torrents thus it didn't impact his upload performance. It probably is just a slow internet connection.

Where are you seeing torrents? Anyways, I was currently uploading a video to YouTube, do you think that would have an affect on computer performance?

 

[theSeb]

Where are you seeing torrents? Anyways, I was currently uploading a video to YouTube, do you think that would have an affect on computer performance?

He said "NOT" so he obviously didn't see any. The point that he was making is that there was nothing obvious that couldn't be making your internet connection slower, such as torrents. Uploading a video will make your internet connection slower, but it won't make your computer slower. It requires very little CPU cycles and hard drive reads.

 

[Irock619]

He said "NOT" so he obviously didn't see any. The point that he was making is that there was nothing obvious that couldn't be making your internet connection slower, such as torrents. Uploading a video will make your internet connection slower, but it won't make your computer slower. It requires very little CPU cycles and hard drive reads.

I understand that downloading torrents would slow my internet down, I was just wondering how torrents got brought up because I don't have a torrent client, I did at one point but not anymore. Maybe I need to look at my apps again.

 

[Astroboy907]

I understand that downloading torrents would slow my internet down, I was just wondering how torrents got brought up because I don't have a torrent client, I did at one point but not anymore. Maybe I need to look at my apps again.

Its in the downloads window. Maybe you should hide that
Because it also hasa an exe called... well, I cant post that here

 

[theSeb]

Its in the downloads window. Maybe you should hide that
Because it also hasa an exe called... well, I cant post that here

That's nearly as bad as the post your desktop thread on a huge forum that I cannot remember the name of. One guy forgot to hide/rename his shemale porn folder that was on the desktop. Much hilarity ensued.

OP, you have your surname, questionable downloads and torrents proudly displayed in the downloads window. I would suggest doing something about that screenshot.

 

[-aggie-]

Its in the downloads window. Maybe you should hide that
Because it also hasa an exe called... well, I cant post that here

What a fail.

----------

That's nearly as bad as the post your desktop thread on a huge forum that I cannot remember the name of. One guy forgot to hide/rename his shemale porn folder that was on the desktop. Much hilarity ensued.

OP, you have your surname, questionable downloads and torrents proudly displayed in the downloads window. I would suggest doing something about that screenshot.

Oh, hai!