Question about VirtualBox (virtualization software)

[krayziekray]

I have read somewhere, can't remember the site, that installing Virtualization Software such as parallels or VirtualBox alters and messes with the Mac OS System files (Kernal etc). I just wanted to know how true this is.

Is there a performance decline on the Mac side when using/not using the virtaulization software?

Also, I currently have Windows using BootCamp on a partitioned drive. If i were to install VirtualBox, would i need to reinstall the windows copy and re-activate it? As I remember having to do something like this last time when i brought and installed Parallels.

Thanks.

KrayzieKray

 

[angelwatt]

Not sure if it messes with system files, but I don't hear too many issues from it.

While running any virtualization software, there will be a performance hit. I mean you will be running two whole operating system on one computer at the same time. It's only natural.

VirtualBox won't interfere with your Bootcamp partition and you won't have to reinstall it. Now if you want to the Windows install from Bootcamp to be moved into VirtualBox, then you'll need to reinstall it there.

 

[krayziekray]

Not sure if it messes with system files, but I don't hear too many issues from it.

While running any virtualization software, there will be a performance hit. I mean you will be running two whole operating system on one computer at the same time. It's only natural.

VirtualBox won't interfere with your Bootcamp partition and you won't have to reinstall it. Now if you want to the Windows install from Bootcamp to be moved into VirtualBox, then you'll need to reinstall it there.

I totally understand that there will be a impact on performance while the VM is running, but what about when it's not running? If indeed it is true that it messes with System files, there may be an impact on Mac side even when the VM is off??? No???

Now if you want to the Windows install from Bootcamp to be moved into VirtualBox, then you'll need to reinstall it there.

Not sure what you meant there, do you mean if i want VirtualBox to use my BootCamp partition i WILL need to reinstall on top of it (thus, removing BootCamp)?

KrayzieKray

 

[dukebound85]

I totally understand that there will be a impact on performance while the VM is running, but what about when it's not running? If indeed it is true that it messes with System files, there may be an impact on Mac side even when the VM is off??? No???



Not sure what you meant there, do you mean if i want VirtualBox to use my BootCamp partition i WILL need to reinstall on top of it (thus, removing BootCamp)?

KrayzieKray

i am unaware of any effects

personally i wouldnt even worry about it

 

[stewy]

I've been using virtualbox for a while, I haven't noticed any type of performance hit when it is not running.

I don't think that virtualbox can "see" your boot camp partition, i'm not sure of that, but I _thought_ that parallels was the only virtualization software that could do that... and yeah, you have to reactivate your windows install once you access it thru parallels.

I recently moved my boot camp partition to a virtualbox vm... the main reason i even use it at all is for autocad, and after experimenting with virtualbox found that autocad runs just fine on my xp virtualbox install.

I wrote a little guide detailing how i moved the boot camp install to a virtualbox vm if you're interested.
http://dubslinks.blogspot.com/2009/08/make-backup-of-your-entire-machine.html

 

[krayziekray]

I recently moved my boot camp partition to a virtualbox vm...

I wrote a little guide detailing how i moved the boot camp install to a virtualbox vm if you're interested.
http://dubslinks.blogspot.com/2009/08/make-backup-of-your-entire-machine.html

Thanks, guide is actually quite good, though its from parallels to VB, but I'm sure it works the same way with BootCamp

So in other words, I will have to re-activate windows ... DAMNNN ... It's such a pain in the a**e, I can never get it to start working over the net and always end up having to call up.

KrayzieKray

 

[angelwatt]

Thanks, guide is actually quite good, though its from parallels to VB, but I'm sure it works the same way with BootCamp

Except that Bootcamp isn't virtualization. It's dual booting. When Bootcamp is running, Leopard isn't. When you're using virtualization software, both OS are running at the same time. These are different technologies. Though, stewy's write-up looks like it should help you make the transition if that's the path you want.

Also, no, when virtualization software is not running, it does not have any more impact that any other application not running. Good luck.

 

[larkost]

The only two things that Virtualization software is really going to do to your computer:

1) They usually add another type of networking interface to allow the host OS's to communicate. This is probably the source of the "messing with the kernel" comment. I have seen really nasty problems with early versions of Parallels (enough to keep my shying away from that product), but have had consistant good luck with both VMWare and VirtualBox.

2) The program does use modes in the processor that are not otherwise used. This should not really affect things unless there are bugs in either/both the OS and the virtualization product. I am not aware of any at this point. But they are digging deeper, so it is possible that they could cause more crashes than other type of programs.

 

[krayziekray]

Except that Bootcamp isn't virtualization.

Ofcourse .... Guess my previous posts didnt really show that I knew that, guess thats what you get when you post at 2 in the morning

The only two things that Virtualization software is really going to do to your computer:

1) They usually add another type of networking interface to allow the host OS's to communicate. This is probably the source of the "messing with the kernel" comment. I have seen really nasty problems with early versions of Parallels (enough to keep my shying away from that product), but have had consistant good luck with both VMWare and VirtualBox.

2) The program does use modes in the processor that are not otherwise used. This should not really affect things unless there are bugs in either/both the OS and the virtualization product. I am not aware of any at this point. But they are digging deeper, so it is possible that they could cause more crashes than other type of programs.

Since I'm running Windows ... im sure there are plenty of bugs

On a serious note though, Thanks for the info

KrayzieKray

 

[stewy]

The method I used _should_ work independently of what kind of setup you are using... even if you want to move your win xp install from a different physical machine to a virtual machine on your mac.

The only problem... and I wrote about this in the guide... is that you might have to boot in safe mode to remove some drivers for hardware you are will no longer be using under the vm.

 

[krayziekray]

Is there a way to backup the VirtualBox Windows Installation (like an image point), so that if i ever need to restore the OS i don't need to activate Windows and install all my programs again?

KrayzieKray

 

[krayziekray]

No one???

KrayzieKray

 

[tooz]

you can take snapshots in VirtualBox, pretty sure thats what you need.

I use VB to hold a couple of XP sytems, One working, and the other one is used when I want to do a "free offer" to get a reward. Usually gets wiped after use. I decided to run a virus scan after I installed a toolbar to get some coins in a game, 250 VIRUSES! lol

 

[stewy]

I haven't really looked into this myself... good question.

I'm thinking that you could just backup the virtual machine file itself... i think it's a vdi file... then if something goes screwy just replace it. I'm not really sure though, I'm taking a guess.

I leave it to time machine to back up all of my data.

 

[krayziekray]

I haven't really looked into this myself... good question.

I'm thinking that you could just backup the virtual machine file itself... i think it's a vdi file... then if something goes screwy just replace it. I'm not really sure though, I'm taking a guess.

I leave it to time machine to back up all of my data.

Hmmm, thats what I was thinking myself, but just wanted to make sure.

It must be the .vdi file since that is the actual "Image Hard Drive" that VirtualBox uses to boot the OS, right? Well I'll do a backup of the file, install some random software and then replace the image and see if that software is still there, whenever I get a moment.

I'll let you guys know the outcome.

And I believe the snapshot section is creating a snapshot of the Virtual Machine and the current state and not the actual OS itself.

KrayzieKray

 

[stewy]

I've since read a little more about this since the last time i posted.

I don't think that backing up the vdi file will work, apparently when try to restart the machine after restoring the vdi it throws you some error about a virtual machine with the same UUID (i think it was UUID) is already registered with virtualbox.

Check out the help file, there's some useful information in there... I think to truly back it up you would want to use "Export Appliance".

 

[stewy]

Here's the link where I got the info (I just found it, again)
http://www.derekhildreth.com/blog/how-to-properly-backup-a-virtualbox-machine-vdi/

Reading the comments leads me to believe that backing up the vdi file would work just fine, as long as you delete the machine you previously backed up before trying to use the backup... that sounds confusing... but you probably know what i'm getting at... you can't have two vm's with the same uuid in virtualbox at the same time.

 

[krayziekray]

Here's the link where I got the info (I just found it, again)
http://www.derekhildreth.com/blog/how-to-properly-backup-a-virtualbox-machine-vdi/

Reading the comments leads me to believe that backing up the vdi file would work just fine, as long as you delete the machine you previously backed up before trying to use the backup... that sounds confusing... but you probably know what i'm getting at... you can't have two vm's with the same uuid in virtualbox at the same time.

Thanks Stewy ... yep, I think I know what your saying

I'll have a read through the site, thanks for the link.

KrayzieKray

 

[krayziekray]

Right I've had a read through the site, and looking at afew other websites, I have found (from my understanding) that clonevdi command is recommended when setting up a new Virtual Machine (in addition to the existing one) to use with the backup image ... hope that makes sense ... so in other words you have VM1 pointing to HDD.vdi and then create a VM2 pointing to HDD_Copy.vdi. Both being used simultaneously. Example of a guide can be found here

Thing is, I'm always going to have one Virtual Machine and would like to simply point that Virtual Machine to the backup if something should go wrong (discarding/deleting the one currently in use). In this case would i still be advised to use the clonevdi command, or would a simple copy and paste work?

What if i deleted the Virtual Machine and the HDD.vdi (so VirtualBox has no VM in its window), then created a fresh Virtual Machine and pointed that to the backup, would that still work?

I hope my post is clear, and i am making sense.

KrayzieKray

 

[stewy]

Yeah, sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on things... I would make the exact same assumptions you have made.

However, you won't really know if this will work until you try it... I don't suppose you have a second mac to try it on... or maybe a friends mac or something?

 

[krayziekray]

Yeah, sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on things... I would make the exact same assumptions you have made.

However, you won't really know if this will work until you try it... I don't suppose you have a second mac to try it on... or maybe a friends mac or something?

Totally agree, guess I'll have to give it a try. Well, I'm gunna make a two backups of the Virtual Machine HDD (one with copy & paste and one with the clonevdi command). Then once i have Snow Leopard up and running with a clean install, I'll check it out.

KrayzieKray

 

[stewy]

good call!

please report your findings, i'm interested to know the results

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

Is there a way to backup the VirtualBox Windows Installation (like an image point), so that if i ever need to restore the OS i don't need to activate Windows and install all my programs again?

KrayzieKray

You should really use the VirtualBox snapshot-function for this.
VirtualBox creates a snapshot file of your current configuration <vs.> the original installation and you can fall back to it later if you like.

I created a snapshot right after activation and a second one after installation of all current patches and necessary system software (after making sure it works).
If disaster strikes I can now revert back to these earlier snapshots, nice and easy from the startup screen (off course backing up the vdi files will also work, but is more prone to error...)
Just make sure to have a backup of your data. I mainly keep it on the OSX-side (mapped 'My Place' to an OSX directory...)

 

[krayziekray]

Well having installed Snow Leopard and Virtual Machine, I decided that i would first try the Copy & Paste file, since this was the one that everyone was not sure about. It works!!!

So I guess I was right, the clonevdi command is best used if you are going to be using the backup .vdi images simultaneously, but if you only want to back up the drive incase of a virus etc, copy and paste would work just fine.

Also, is anyones Seamless mode not working correctly on Snow Leopard? I'm getting the background wallpaper on my desktop, which was not there on Leopard???

KrayzieKray