Question for POTD Users: How Do You Access the DP Forum?

[Designer Dale]

Hi, folks.

I have noticed that some of the more recent visitors to the POTD thread miss the info in the first post. There are still questions about how to post and users who quote full size images in the thread.

Before I do too much thinking, I'm interested in how you reach the Digital Photography forum or POTD thread.

Do you use the sidebar on the MR main news page and click into DP/POTD from there?
Do you click the Forums tab and go to the full list of forums?
I have a shortcut on my Dock that takes me directly to the DP forum.

Do you think users would be more apt to see the Welcome to POTD post if it was a Sticky instead of the first post?

Dale

 

[compuwar]

Hi, folks.

I have noticed that some of the more recent visitors to the POTD thread miss the info in the first post. There are still questions about how to post and users who quote full size images in the thread.

Before I do too much thinking, I'm interested in how you reach the Digital Photography forum or POTD thread.

Do you use the sidebar on the MR main news page and click into DP/POTD from there?
Do you click the Forums tab and go to the full list of forums?
I have a shortcut on my Dock that takes me directly to the DP forum.

Do you think users would be more apt to see the Welcome to POTD post if it was a Sticky instead of the first post?

Dale

It's a long thread, folks are likely to hit the end and then go backwards- but I don't think stickying the topic will help much-- I don't understand why MR doesn't just change the code so that all replies with images automatically make things a timg. That's the best/easiest solution IMO.

Paul

 

[Designer Dale]

That's how I see it, too. The only way to make sure all replies are tagged as thumbnails is to make it automatic. But on the other hand, we don't want MR to institute automatic TIMG for all uploaded photos, even if we could edit the T out.

Dale

 

[fcortese]

I hit the forums tab, then usually click on Digital photography, then I'll look at the topics and then select the little arrow by the most recent submitter to go straight into the sight. Once done, back to Dig Photo and do the same thing all over again.

 

[Designer Dale]

^^^ Do you ever pay any attention to the Stickies at the top of the DP forum thread list? Did the tutorials in the Welcome post help you at all?

I'm mainly wondering out loud if a Sticky would be more accessible than what we do now.

Dale

 

[compuwar]

That's how I see it, too. The only way to make sure all replies are tagged as thumbnails is to make it automatic. But on the other hand, we don't want MR to institute automatic TIMG for all uploaded photos, even if we could edit the T out.

Dale

I'm pretty sure the reply code path is different than the submit code path- but I generally run SMF forums, so I don't know the VBulletin code- but I'd be surprised if it wasn't fixable in a few minutes by someone who knew the code.

Paul

 

[fcortese]

^^^ Do you ever pay any attention to the Stickies at the top of the DP forum thread list? Did the tutorials in the Welcome post help you at all?

I'm mainly wondering out loud if a Sticky would be more accessible than what we do now.

Dale

Dale, I read your instructions but I can not remember where-either the sticky or the first page of the POTD. It was probably the first page of the POTD. That's where I got my info to try to attempt to start posting. I remember I initially had a little trouble with Image Shack and you helped me out. And I remember another member gently reminding me to use "T" with "IMG" when using another picture in a reply. It was then that I went back and re-reviewed the rules once again. Hope this helps.

 

[Designer Dale]

Dale, I read your instructions but I can not remember where-either the sticky or the first page of the POTD. It was probably the first page of the POTD. That's where I got my info to try to attempt to start posting. I remember I initially had a little trouble with Image Shack and you helped me out. And I remember another member gently reminding me to use "T" with "IMG" when using another picture in a reply. It was then that I went back and re-reviewed the rules once again. Hope this helps.

You are a true model citizen of Digital Photo. The tutorials have been in the first post since we finalized them around a year ago. I don't mind reminding new users to refer back to the first post, but sometimes people just don't seem to bother. This has been the minority case, tho. All in all I think the DP forum has been one of the more sane on the Net.

Dale

 

[fcortese]

You are a true model citizen of Digital Photo. The tutorials have been in the first post since we finalized them around a year ago. I don't mind reminding new users to refer back to the first post, but sometimes people just don't seem to bother. This has been the minority case, tho. All in all I think the DP forum has been one of the more sane on the Net.

Dale

+1. Plus DP between the POTD, fortnight and weekly challenges you get to see a lot of talented people put their imaginations and skills/craft to work and you get to learn a lot as well.

 

[Ish]

I have it in the bookmarks bar. To be honest, my eyes skip over the stickies and go straight to the threads with unread posts. Sorry to be not much help but I'm not certain how you can do it other than keep reminding people. Many will probably just look at a few pages and decide to comment on something they like.

I've not been very active over the last few months and I've missed interacting with you guys. I notice the standard has become quite impressive, exceedingly so at times.

 

[kallisti]

Would be nice if it could be made automatic. I'd like to think that making it a sticky would change things, but the reality is that most people don't read the stickies before they post. I learned about timg after I got *spanked* for not using it. Lesson learned. Without it being automated, I think the reality is that new posters won't "get it" until they get called out. Similar with multi-quoting. Not sure that any amount of verbiage will make it idiot-proof.

Having said that, a sticky with instructions on posting would probably do considerably more than prefacing each POTD thread with posting instructions. A specific sticky titled something like "How to post in this forum" or "Instructions for posting in this forum--please read" or "How to post images in this forum and rules for quoting other images" might be useful. While the site has general posting instructions, this forum is a bit different from everywhere else on the site.

A general sticky on how to get images from your Mac to a hosting site to here (including the rules for posting in this particular forum) might increase the use of timg and multi-quote. Might also get more people to post their images who may be struggling with the technical barriers of getting the "image on the computer" to an "image visible to others on the internet."

While there are links to tutorials in the initial post of the POTD thread, having this stickied might increase visibility for newer members. I know when I first started posting here I looked for a sticky explaining the nitty-gritty of posting an image. I wouldn't have thought to look for this info in the POTD thread.

You put quite a bit of effort into creating the tutorials Dale. They really deserve a sticky. Might not solve all the problems, but I think having a separate sticky outlining the nuts-and-bolts of posting in this forum would be useful for many. Certainly would have been helpful for me.

 

[Designer Dale]

Would be nice if it could be made automatic. I'd like to think that making it a sticky would change things, but the reality is that most people don't read the stickies before they post. I learned about timg after I got *spanked* for not using it. Lesson learned. Without it being automated, I think the reality is that new posters won't "get it" until they get called out. Similar with multi-quoting. Not sure that any amount of verbiage will make it idiot-proof.

Having said that, a sticky with instructions on posting would probably do considerably more than prefacing each POTD thread with posting instructions. A specific sticky titled something like "How to post in this forum" or "Instructions for posting in this forum--please read" or "How to post images in this forum and rules for quoting other images" might be useful. While the site has general posting instructions, this forum is a bit different from everywhere else on the site.

A general sticky on how to get images from your Mac to a hosting site to here (including the rules for posting in this particular forum) might increase the use of timg and multi-quote. Might also get more people to post their images who may be struggling with the technical barriers of getting the "image on the computer" to an "image visible to others on the internet."

While there are links to tutorials in the initial post of the POTD thread, having this stickied might increase visibility for newer members. I know when I first started posting here I looked for a sticky explaining the nitty-gritty of posting an image. I wouldn't have thought to look for this info in the POTD thread.

You put quite a bit of effort into creating the tutorials Dale. They really deserve a sticky. Might not solve all the problems, but I think having a separate sticky outlining the nuts-and-bolts of posting in this forum would be useful for many. Certainly would have been helpful for me.

Along with all the other goo in my brain I have a thought that it doesn't have to be either post #1 or a Sticky; why not both? The opening post could be edited down to just How To stuff like you mentioned. There is a general sticky for the photo forums, but all it provides are lists of past POTD threads and other major threads like the Contest.

Thanks for all the input, and please continue to add your thoughts. Special thanks to Doc, he got all this started with a PM around a year ago.

My intent in this thread is to improve user access to information.

Dale

 

[TheReef]

Hi Dale,

I'll usually type the DP url, see all the threads and jump to the page on POTD I was last up to.
Once past the first page, I'll usually never see the first post again.

A sticky up the top titled "Read before posting in POTD" or similar would probably grab attention of most before they post.

 

[NathanCH]

I for one ignore all sticky threads.

Sometimes I think it's just natural to do. I remember when I ran my forum, if I stickied a thread it basically killed it.

 

[John.B]

That's how I see it, too. The only way to make sure all replies are tagged as thumbnails is to make it automatic. But on the other hand, we don't want MR to institute automatic TIMG for all uploaded photos, even if we could edit the T out.

I gotta be honest with you Dale, this is the first I've heard of needing to use the TIMG tag for images in quoted replies. (I have had my hand slapped over the multi-quote thing, so I know about that now... )

Maybe I'm not understanding the question being asked, but why isn't there a TIMG button next to the

IMG button? Better yet, why not automatically change the IMG tag to a TIMG tag just for quoted replies? Leaving original image posts alone, of course!

No matter, now that I understand what's being asked of me I'll be far more likely to get it right in the future.

Back to the original question, I access MR via the control panel to follow up on my active threads (threads that I've posted to or subscribed to that have new activity), then I go to the forum and look through the new posts. If you had a "Please Read Before Posting To This Forum" message at the top, I might have been more inclined to read it. HTH

 

[Cliff3]

Maybe I'm not understanding the question being asked, but why isn't there a TIMG button next to the

IMG button? Better yet, why not automatically change the IMG tag to a TIMG tag just for quoted replies? Leaving original image posts alone, of course!

The timg tag is implemented via custom bbcode, a customization that is very simple to create and maintain in vBulletin. Modifying the user interface or posting behavior is a far more intrusive customization, one that would make software version upgrades more than a bit of a PITA. I administer a vBulletin site, and I wouldn't touch that sort of customization with a 10 foot pole. It's just not worth the hassle.

 

[John.B]

The timg tag is implemented via custom bbcode, a customization that is very simple to create and maintain in vBulletin. Modifying the user interface or posting behavior is a far more intrusive customization, one that would make software version upgrades more than a bit of a PITA.

OK, fair enough, then why isn't the ability to easily modify the posting behavior a standard vBulletin feature? What good is a feature with no way to cleanly implement it?

Don't get me wrong, mad props to Dale for doing what he does, but it's going to continue to be an uphill battle with every new person who posts on on one of this forum's picture threads. If it's a standard that arn wants everyone to adhere to, automating this is the only foolproof approach.

(For that matter, why isn't the feature to graphically include/exclude forums from the "New Posts" link also a standard feature? Manually typing in the forum numbers of the forums to exclude is a kludge, at best.)

I administer a vBulletin site, and I wouldn't touch that sort of customization with a 10 foot pole. It's just not worth the hassle.

As an IT guy, I understand perfectly the issues that customization can bring to system upgrades. OTOH, I also understand that implementing the hard stuff is where IT can be seen as a value-add vs. just being a cost center. YMMV.

Great discussion!

 

[Cliff3]

OK, fair enough, then why isn't the ability to easily modify the posting behavior a standard vBulletin feature? What good is a feature with no way to cleanly implement it?

I didn't say it couldn't be done. I haven't tried it, but I would guess that one or more of the style templates would need to be modified to implement the change. Templates are affected by version upgrades, so that customization becomes something that must be documented, added to new templates, then tested prior to going live with a version upgrade.

I used to support a PeopleSoft financials application for a former employer. Before my time, the implementation team made substantial customizations to the application and those customizations weren't documented adequately. When it came time to upgrade (by that point I had moved on to other areas in the company but was still in IT) most of the customizations were abandoned as the implementation effort exceeded the anticipated benefit.

Personally, I would definitely put this sort of change in that category.

 

[Designer Dale]

MR seems to have an unwritten rule regarding the size of posted images. There isn't anything in the rules for the site that specifically states what to do, so that leaves the question "To TIMG or not to TIMG". The reason we promote it for quoting is to save space in the thread. We have occasional visits from Moderators and even a well known Administrator in which they spend an hour going through the posts changing the image tags to TIMG for everything. That pisses photographers off. We are trying to avoid that while still promoting the posting of large images.

Making software changes to vBB to automate this has it's weaknesses. If it's implemented as a user option (button) it will be passed over by a lot of new folks. If it was put in place as a global change where all posted and linked images were thumb-nailed, we would lose the "photo magazine" feel to the POTD thread.

As one who only reads manuals as a last resort, I'm not one to criticize new users who need to learn who to present and manage photos for a picky audience.

Dale

 

[compuwar]

Making software changes to vBB to automate this has it's weaknesses. If it's implemented as a user option (button) it will be passed over by a lot of new folks. If it was put in place as a global change where all posted and linked images were thumb-nailed, we would lose the "photo magazine" feel to the POTD thread.

You are assuming that "Post an image" follows the same code path as "reply to a post with images." I'd bet not, but I haven't seen the VB code in years and years. If you can change the reply code path, then making it automatic wouldn't "break" anything other than replying with full-sized images- seems like it'd at least be worth looking at.

Paul

 

[Designer Dale]

You are assuming that "Post an image" follows the same code path as "reply to a post with images." I'd bet not, but I haven't seen the VB code in years and years. If you can change the reply code path, then making it automatic wouldn't "break" anything other than replying with full-sized images- seems like it'd at least be worth looking at.

Paul

Please don't mistake me for a software guy. I am thinking only in terms of concepts when I refer to changing codes. I defer to people like you to correct me.

Thanks, Dale

 

[compuwar]

Please don't mistake me for a software guy. I am thinking only in terms of concepts when I refer to changing codes. I defer to people like you to correct me.

Thanks, Dale

"Reply" follows a code path that includes "Quote the old post," and unless VBulletin was coded by folks who flunked out of Microsoft or more recently the m0r0n who wrote the alarm clock application in iOS, that should be an independent code path that's only used in replies- so I'm betting that it's either a two minute fix, or a day at the most-- I just can't see how it would be coded otherwise.

Of course, I can't see how you'd logically code an alarm clock application that would be buggy for just the first three days of the year either...

Paul

 

[gnd]

Of course, I can't see how you'd logically code an alarm clock application that would be buggy for just the first three days of the year either...

It takes a lot of talent