Reassurance on MBP16 2019 buying choice?

[burni]

I'm about to upgrade my late 2013 15" MBP i7 2.3. Its battery is shot (1160 cycles and counting!) and the fans spin up a lot more often. It's been a great machine, apart from a slight bit of delamination (which Apple replaced waaaaay out of warranty) it's never had any issues.

I spend at 90% of my time hooked up to an external display with my internal screen as a secondary monitor off to the side, on a stand. This was a two different locations, where I had very similar setups, but now that's likely to be one location for the foreseeable future.

So it's time to upgrade. I've been through a few thought experiments, get an iMac and a MBA, get and iMac and a MBP 13, get a MBP 13 hi-spec and use the external monitor... But the favourite has always been replace the 15 with a 16 and upgrade my home 27" Dell Ultrasharp (U2713HM) to an LG 5K. The one cable lifestyle seems like a dream! I wouldn't even have to buy a new Tom Bihn bag or laptop sleeve and I'm used to the screen size and weight of a 15" laptop.

So I began my research and have been reading the various reports from you fine folks of the MacRumours forums...

Let's just say I'm now a bit scared of spending all this money!

I see the reports of coil whine (hopefully that would be above the frequency my old ears can hear lol), speaker crackle, fan noise and heat while running a second monitor and open (which is how I'll use it). People having headaches using the internal screen, issues with quality on the 5K, sleep kernel panics... Yeesh!

Now I realise that issues like these, that are reported on forums, tend to be condensed together and amplified and have an echo chamber-ness to them (no offence to anyone!) I feel I'm not a hypercritical user. I often see the issues other talk about but they don't stick out to me and I usually forget about them while I'm getting on with work, but my last new Apple product experience was a bad one (I bought AirPods Pro and the ANC made me feel dizzy and stuffed up, and set my ears ringing for a few days).

So I'm definitely apprehensive about buying this model, especially as I'll likely be keeping it 5 years or more and am going to spec it out with that in mind (i9 model with 32GB, 8GB GPU & likely 2TB - still undecided on that).

So what I'm rambling towards is, to ask for positive experiences with the 16" especially from those users with external monitors (like the 5K). Would you recommend buying this machine? Or would you wait for a revision? I can keep on my current 15 for a bit longer, but I do need to look at a replacement this year.

(If I've read the rumours right, a revision around the online WWDC event seems unlikely right? More likely it would come in Sept/Oct/Nov yes? And the difference in 9th gen to 10th gen isn't very big?)

Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

[Alex W.]

Im currently trying to find the best unit for the price of the mbp 16, and honestly I think this is the best laptop currently.

The screen is my only complaint and the crappy drivers in windows that force dedicated gpu usage, so osx is where you live for battery life.

I like it, honestly the track pad is massive, screen is okay for.... static stuff... any motion its kinda **** tbh - that's my only gripe with this is they chose bad panel tech for this unit.

Second to this, the Asus g15 / g14 are great units best bang for buck but ALOT of engineering issues like 30% have issues on reddit.

I can't find something better so its a trade off with this, if only apple got a good screen it would be perfect.


However I have debated getting the XPS 15 with a 1920 x 1080 screen for the 20hrs battery life, then Hackintosh it to have an acceptable experience.

 

[marmiteturkey]

I have an mbp 16 (i9 1tb 16gb) and an LG 5k; maybe I can help.
no coil whine
no headaches from the screen (and I have TERRIBLE eyes for screens - dry, short-sighted, astigmatic)
speaker crackle was fixed ages ago (I never experienced it tbh)
Fans spin up under load but only for games and heavy video encoding
had the sleep restart issue which has been fixed in a recent OS update (i run the beta)


The 5k is a fabulous monitor too - and this coming from a 5k iMac too.

I may have been very lucky with my 16 - bought in the first week of launch.
My favourite laptop ever, and I’ve had every major generation since the Powerbook G4.

I do have one issue, which is that the power button seems to be coming apart - it cracks and crinkles. Once apple stores reopen here in the UK, I’m confident that Apple will repair it under warranty, and then it’ll be business as usual.

You might get a refresh at wwdc but I don’t think it’ll be more than a spec bump?

 

[MrGimper]

The other thing to bear in mind is that, in my opinion, the Apple refurb store is the way to go for massive savings. However, refurbs don't appear for 4-6 months after a product release. So, even if something was launched soon, a refurb wouldn't be around until sometime later. This is what made me decide to upgrade from my 2014 13" now, rather than wait (and the subsequent £730 saving with a refurb!)

 

[calliex]

I have an mbp 16 (i9 1tb 16gb) and an LG 5k; maybe I can help.
no coil whine
no headaches from the screen (and I have TERRIBLE eyes for screens - dry, short-sighted, astigmatic)
speaker crackle was fixed ages ago (I never experienced it tbh)
Fans spin up under load but only for games and heavy video encoding
had the sleep restart issue which has been fixed in a recent OS update (i run the beta)


The 5k is a fabulous monitor too - and this coming from a 5k iMac too.

I may have been very lucky with my 16 - bought in the first week of launch.
My favourite laptop ever, and I’ve had every major generation since the Powerbook G4.

I do have one issue, which is that the power button seems to be coming apart - it cracks and crinkles. Once apple stores reopen here in the UK, I’m confident that Apple will repair it under warranty, and then it’ll be business as usual.

You might get a refresh at wwdc but I don’t think it’ll be more than a spec bump?

So you do not have a heat issue when using your external monitor? That is the one issue I was worrying about.

 

[The_Joker13]

I’ve had a 16 for a couple months now. I love it. Don’t hesitate, it’s a beast.

 

[MrGimper]

So you do not have a heat issue when using your external monitor? That is the one issue I was worrying about.

Depends what you consider an issue. Lots of people talking about it getting hot and the fans spinning higher, but is that an issue? That's for you to decide

 

[jerryk]

Even with my old ears I can hear coil whine, IF I REALLY TRY. And by really try I mean get my ear within 1 inch of the unit over the keyboard AND I am running some sort of disk benchmark. Under normal operations I cannot hear it, so I don't worry about it. The screen works fine for me, but I do not try to read text while scrolling.

As for keeping a unit for 3-5 years, I doubt I will. IMHO it is likely within that time frame Apple will have abandon the x86 architecture and gone to their own ARM or other architecture based chipset. I will likely replace my 16" when they do because the new chipset will eclipse the performance of the x86 architecture. And other features like the webcam and displays will be updated to match the specs of found in the latest iPhone and iPad Pros.

 

[calliex]

Depends what you consider an issue. Lots of people talking about it getting hot and the fans spinning higher, but is that an issue? That's for you to decide

Thanks you are right like other issues discussed on this forum issue is in eye of the beholder. There are a lot of discussions pro and con on here almost too much info. The last laptop I bought back in 2012 I didn't go looking for reviews and opinions I just bought it. It turned out be best laptop I have owned. Appreciate you reply.

 

[MrGimper]

Thanks you are right like other issues discussed on this forum issue is in eye of the beholder. There are a lot of discussions pro and con on here almost too much info. The last laptop I bought back in 2012 I didn't go looking for reviews and opinions I just bought it. It turned out be best laptop I have owned. Appreciate you reply.

My previous machine was a 2014 13" and I too didn't go looking for issues. The problem with forums like this is that machines are examined with a fine tooth comb and I agree some issues are legitimate, but some are where unless you look you'd never notice. As an example, with the apple watch, if you set the screen to a dark grey and set the brightness to one tick above total darkness, while standing in a pitch black room, you may notice one side of the screen is slightliy brighter than the other. But is that a bit deal in daily use? Then there's the issue with "ghosting", but if I'm honest my screen acts no differently to my 2014, apart from looking much better!

 

[burni]

Thanks for the replies and experiences all, I'm definitely feeling more reassured. I'm going to pull the tigger very soon I think. Just need to find a 5K in stock in the UK from a reputable seller. And I'm keeping a watch on the refurbs although the specs around what I want are often the highest 2.4 CPU version. Is there a battery hit on that over the 2.3?

 

[MrGimper]

Thanks for the replies and experiences all, I'm definitely feeling more reassured. I'm going to pull the tigger very soon I think. Just need to find a 5K in stock in the UK from a reputable seller. And I'm keeping a watch on the refurbs although the specs around what I want are often the highest 2.4 CPU version. Is there a battery hit on that over the 2.3?

I dropped from the 2.4 to the 2.3 in favour of more RAM (for my use case 64GB over 32GB). The refurb price difference of the 2.4 and 2.3 is about £130-140. If you were considering the 16GB model I'd invest that difference in the 32GB, or the GPU upgrade if that wasn't already a consideration. We in the UK have a great selection of refurbs, which is where I got mine and saved £730

 

[burni]

I dropped from the 2.4 to the 2.3 in favour of more RAM (for m use case 64GB over 32GB). The refurb price difference of the 2.4 and 2.3 is about £130-140. If you were considering the 16GB model I'd invest that difference in the 32GB, or the GPU upgrade if that wasn't already a consideration. We in the UK have a great selection of refurbs, which is where I got mine and saved £730

Yeah, that would be my preference, I've just noticed that the ones with the larger SSD's are often (but not always!) the 2.4. Obviously stock changes all the time on refurb, but was just seeing if the 2.4 was a battery hog to weigh up my options.

 

[MrGimper]

Yeah, that would be my preference, I've just noticed that the ones with the larger SSD's are often (but not always!) the 2.4. Obviously stock changes all the time on refurb, but was just seeing if the 2.4 was a battery hog to weigh up my options.

This is useful....

https://refurb-tracker.com/

 

[chengengaun]

My experience so far is fine:

• Coil whine: Tried very hard but could not hear anything.
• Speaker crackle: No crackle for me so far.
• Fan noise and heat while running a second monitor and open: It can run warm, but seems no worse than the 2016 MBP 15
• People having headaches using the internal screen: No problem for me so far.
• Issues with quality on the 5K: Used the 5K with 2016 15" and 2019 16", no problem so far (though I wish it had more ports)
• Sleep kernel panics: I experienced this a few times a day back in March, with the 5K and other generic monitors. It seemed to happen when the MBP went to sleep with the external monitor plugged in. I prevented this from happening by unplugging the monitor before letting the MBP go to sleep. After the macOS update I no longer experienced this issue.

I am happy with it.

The i9-10980HK is out, but Intel seems to squeeze performance by increasing power consumption - and 'only' goes to 5.3GHz from 5.0GHz. Still on 14nm++++++. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1245617565910482945

 

[burni]

Amazing @MrGimper - my hero!

@chengengaun - ah thanks, good to know! I did look up if AMD had a replacement for the 5500M and there's nothing in the same energy class at the moment. So there's just no chips that look worth waiting for in the next couple of months.

 

[marmiteturkey]

So you do not have a heat issue when using your external monitor? That is the one issue I was worrying about.

No - I run it all day every day, dual monitor, and the fans are off most of the time - unless I’m really stressing it with video encoding in iMovie, which I rarely do.

A big Onedrive sync seems to sometimes trigger the fans too occasionally - but I put that down to a software issue rather than a hardware one.

This is the first Mac I’ve ever had that’s a viable gaming machine; it’s so capable, the keyboard is GREAT, the panel is lovely too. I honestly don’t have any issues with ghosting/smearing - if my panel has them, I don’t notice them.

We watched a movie (Onward) on it in bed this morning - the speakers are remarkable, and the panel was more than good enough. I really do love this laptop (feel sad that the power button is not quite right at the moment and am itching to get it fixed).

 

[bill-p]

Yeah, to chime in...

1. Most of the issues reported... I don't see at all, or they don't bother me. Posted extensively in the external monitor thread about this. If you use a USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 monitor and keep the computer in clamshell mode (i.e.: it's turned into a glorified desktop computer), then it's fine.

2. Screen is fine. I scroll through thousands of lines of texts a day and I don't experience more ghosting than my last MacBook. Obviously, it's worse than my external LG screen and my OLED phones, but for what it is, it's... decent.

3. Weight is noticeably more than my 13" MacBook. Size? Not so much, to be honest. It's actually still smaller and lighter than the 2015 15". Portability is not a concern for me. I carry the computer around the house with one hand usage (one hand to hold the MacBook and the other to use the keyboard and trackpad) with ease. And no, I'm not a Gym person, but I think concerns about portability don't apply to everyone.

4. Performance is solid. I don't experience sudden fan noise even considering current San Jose weather has been pretty toasty. While doing general web browsing and watching spurts of Youtube videos, or going through some episodes of Altered Carbon on Netflix, the computer is dead quiet.

Now, my negatives... more like pet peeves, but:

1. Software and UI issues galore. Display drivers for both the integrated and dedicated GPU are... not up to par. Display driver for the dedicated GPU is actually what's causing the external monitor issue.

2. On battery, max screen brightness is only attainable when auto-brightness is off. Not a big problem but it's a departure from previous MacBook. Likely linked to the display driver issues again.

3. Thunderbolt 3 eGPU usage under Bootcamp is... let's just say not worth the effort. Not that I'd need it but this is worth mentioning. It's exactly the same case for the 13" MacBook.

4. Overall Bootcamp experience is sub par. Touch bar is not fully supported and the trackpad receives only very basic drivers that don't even integrate into Windows 10. In a pinch, it works well, but I wouldn't want to use this machine primarily for Bootcamp.

 

[marmiteturkey]

Overall Bootcamp experience is sub par. Touch bar is not fully supported and the trackpad receives only very basic drivers that don't even integrate into Windows 10. In a pinch, it works well, but I wouldn't want to use this machine primarily for Bootcamp.

Totally agree with this - occasional windows usage is fine (with an external keyboard and mouse) but if I were a windows-first user I’d be looking at something from Dell or MS.

 

[jaduffy007]

I can only share my experience. I’m about to sell my 16” MBP which I bought ($3400) in early Dec 2019 due to the insane fan noise when connected to an external monitor. If it were bad only when running heavy lift tasks, I could live with that. But this is when simply surfing the web and other basic tasks. Repeat same tasks without external monitor, quiet as a mouse. How bad are the fans? I’m talking 4500-5000rpms! Judging from posts here and reddit, I’m not alone in this experience or frustration. It does seem to happen to varying degrees across owners of the machine.

I installed TG Pro and Turbo Boost Switcher Pro to attempt to tame the fans and heat. I tried clamshell mode. Nope, nope and nope…same issues. Almost seems random sometimes. Well, it's a bit better in clamshell mode, but nothing significant. I tried usb-c to usb-c, usb-c to hdmi, usb-c to displayport. Tried going through adaptors...and own a TB3 dock from OWC.

I’m to receive feedback to my computer logs and notes from Apple Support *engineers* on Monday or Tuesday…and will update if appropriate. But since many on reddit have already gone through the same process without receiving a solution, my hopes are low.

The lesson I’m taking from this? If you plan to run Pro desktop apps with an external monitor, buy an iMac or Mac Pro instead. With the keyboard debacle and now this, I will never buy another high end MBP again. Never. I love the lower end models for general computing, but I’m moving to an iMac for my professional work + 13” MBP combo.

And if anyone has a remedy...I'm all ears !!!!

 

[Wolfgang Aston]

MBP 16 is winning on every aspect comparing to my old MacBook Pro, expect display respond time, it makes some users' eyes feel uncomfortable(including me). That's my only complaint.

 

[PhallicPhillip]

I bought one earlier this year, got spooked by rumors here about miniLED + 10th gen Intel chips refresh this year and didn't want to miss out, so decided to go iPad Pro only until then. I didn't make it, and am now typing this on a 16"! I have not yet had any of the issues with my external display, and I think the screen is beautiful. I intend on doing 4k video editing with the base model (I did my research and even the base model will meet my needs here). I would not hesitate to pull the trigger, I love this computer!

 

[chengengaun]

Totally agree with this - occasional windows usage is fine (with an external keyboard and mouse) but if I were a windows-first user I’d be looking at something from Dell or MS.

Agree that Windows support via Bootcamp is perfunctory - almost like just for Apple to be able to say "Hey, MBP runs Windows". Power management is bad - the battery drains slowly whenever the processor is at full load, and 3-4 hours of battery life is the norm (when not at full load). Oftentimes the FaceTime camera cannot be used (but thankfully the 5K one works). The Touch Bar is pretty useless and adjusting display brightness, etc. is a pain. So is the process of upgrading drivers. But it does run Windows and gaming performance is pretty good.

Also agree that the speakers are wonderful. I am using the speakers exclusively, even when I plugged in to the 5K. Listening to classical music is more than passable, indeed delightful - but I am no audiophile though.

 

[b.kind]

I have had my refurbished MBP16 base model for 1 week. It was $2039 + tax.
I have not experienced the list of issues which other people have.
The unit shipped with 10.15.3, I have chosen not to upgrade to 10.15.4 yet, may wait for 10.15.5.

It definitely gets warmer with an external monitor, but not enough to push the fans.
No coil whine, but I have Tinitis, so would I notice it?
Speakers are great, no issues.

I am pleased with the laptop.

 

[jaduffy007]

I can only share my experience. I’m about to sell my 16” MBP which I bought ($3400) in early Dec 2019 due to the insane fan noise when connected to an external monitor. If it were bad only when running heavy lift tasks, I could live with that. But this is when simply surfing the web and other basic tasks. Repeat same tasks without external monitor, quiet as a mouse. How bad are the fans? I’m talking 4500-5000rpms! Judging from posts here and reddit, I’m not alone in this experience or frustration. It does seem to happen to varying degrees across owners of the machine.

I installed TG Pro and Turbo Boost Switcher Pro to attempt to tame the fans and heat. I tried clamshell mode. Nope, nope and nope…same issues. Almost seems random sometimes. Well, it's a bit better in clamshell mode, but nothing significant. I tried usb-c to usb-c, usb-c to hdmi, usb-c to displayport. Tried going through adaptors...and own a TB3 dock from OWC.

I’m to receive feedback to my computer logs and notes from Apple Support *engineers* on Monday or Tuesday…and will update if appropriate. But since many on reddit have already gone through the same process without receiving a solution, my hopes are low.

The lesson I’m taking from this? If you plan to run Pro desktop apps with an external monitor, buy an iMac or Mac Pro instead. With the keyboard debacle and now this, I will never buy another high end MBP again. Never. I love the lower end models for general computing, but I’m moving to an iMac for my professional work + 13” MBP combo.

And if anyone has a remedy...I'm all ears !!!!

Update: After changing a setting in Turbo Boost Switcher and using clam shellmode, the fan noise with external monitor connected is acceptable. Re-evaluating