Recent iPod Mini's HAVE 5GB drives limited to 4?

[azdude]

Here's a plausible story and some technical evidence (see the HDD ID codes as ST = Seagate 5GB "ST1" drive, and HM = Hitachi Microdrive) that recent iPod mini's may already have the Seagate 5GB drive, and are simply limited via firmware to the advertised 4GB.

http://www.ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65447&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

[crazzyeddie]

Very very interesting... Too bad no one with a Seagate drive in their mini has been able to weigh/crack open the case yet.

 

[rendezvouscp]

This makes sense. Now they can just change the firmware and have instant availability of the updated iPod minis when they are announced. However, I think that it's surprising that in one year, Apple is only going to make a 1GB update. Then again, I'm not expecting huge changes to the iPod or iPod mini lines. They have to stop somewhere.
-Chase

 

[MacNut]

Don;t forget that the OS takes up space as well is the drive itself is never as big as advertised, 80 gigs is really 74 ect ect.

 

[MacNut]

My 20 gig iPod only had 18 gigs. so don't expect as advertised. Apple forgets to tell these things.

 

[mcmav37]

However, I think that it's surprising that in one year, Apple is only going to make a 1GB update.

This isn't an Apple limitation, but a drive manufacturer limitation. No one makes hard drives that small that are bigger than 5 GB. See this site for the rumors that up to 10 GB drives might be out this year, but right now 5 GB is it.

I would like to see them make some additional change to the mini such as improved battery life. I would expect the price to stay at $250 though, so it maintains a distance from the new iPod flash.

 

[mcmav37]

Apple forgets to tell these things.

That is not something limited to Apple. Every electronics manufacturer does this. A Palm with advertised 64 MB of storage might only have 50 or so MB for user files. Etc.

 

[psycho bob]

Sorry but this smells of complete bull, people saying that mini's released just before xmas have a firmware block limiting capacity. If that is the case the firmware must be different so all some one needs to do is get an earlier iPod updater and click the restore button. Any new firmware will be removed. The legal ramifications would be so severe there is no way even if it was true that apple could allow users to unlock it and besides there seem to be so many conflicting reports; people buy a pod on the same day yet the drive shows up with a different ID.

 

[Daveway]

Rumors about this have been circulating for about two weeks now. It seems believable but I just don't see Apple doing this because they would spend more money on the drive but selling it as a smaller drive, it doesn't make sense.

 

[azdude]

Rumors about this have been circulating for about two weeks now. It seems believable but I just don't see Apple doing this because they would spend more money on the drive but selling it as a smaller drive, it doesn't make sense.

It actually really does make sense... If Hitachi was giving them major supply problems in the insanely lucrative timeframe nearing the Christmas season, it seems entirely likely that they'd do this.

This IS reasonable.

Regardless, those with "ST" drive ID's won't ever see their extra GB if it exists... the notion in the iPodlounge thread that it would be enabled by a firmware update...

... is NOT reasonable.

 

[OutThere]

My 20 gig iPod only had 18 gigs. so don't expect as advertised. Apple forgets to tell these things.

This is because of the interpretation of bytes. In reality, 1 kilobyte is 1024 bytes, 1 megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, and 1 gigabyte is 1024 megabytes - but for advertising purposes, the numbers are rounded to 1000, which makes a 74 gig hard drive 80, a 112 ->120, 18 ->20 and so on. Some "proffessional" grade hard drive companies that manufacture extremely expensive drives have started to use the actual size of the hard drive as used by the computer in advertising, so as not to deceive the customer more.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Apple and their TiBooks had the same thing going with the optical drive. There was some webpage that had the "right" firmware, so that you could burn faster. There are many theories on that, like heat.

I say, who cares?

My 20 gig iPod only had 18 gigs. so don't expect as advertised. Apple forgets to tell these things.

And because of formatting. Like, the HFS+ file system that allows your iPod to run? That takes up space. (FAT32 file systems take up space too... they all do....)

 

[mrgreen4242]

Sorry but this smells of complete bull, people saying that mini's released just before xmas have a firmware block limiting capacity. If that is the case the firmware must be different so all some one needs to do is get an earlier iPod updater and click the restore button. Any new firmware will be removed. The legal ramifications would be so severe there is no way even if it was true that apple could allow users to unlock it and besides there seem to be so many conflicting reports; people buy a pod on the same day yet the drive shows up with a different ID.

First off, what would using the old firmware have to do anything. The most likely "change" would just be that the HD was manually set with the number of cylinders/heads/tracks/sectors to give it 4 gigs... the same information that is likely to be present in the 4 gig devices.

Second, what "legal ramifications" would be "severe" and to whom? If Apple chose to put in a 5 gig drive and advertise it (and utilize) it as a 4 gig, that's their prerogative. If they do this and the end user choses to void their warranty by hacing the firmware, that's their's. There's nothing illegal about any of it. Apple doesn't make any claims that their devices can be used in any other way that advertised and there is no EULA that says you can't do whatever the hell you want with it after you buy it. (They do make some statement that you shouldn't use it to listen to illegally attained materials, but even if they didn't it would only be the end users problem, not Apples).

Rob

 

[realityisterror]

i remember some article on macbidoulle (sp) awhile ago about there being dual-layer SuperDrives in some Dual G5's... apparently, they were flashed with a different model's firmware to disable dual-layer and limit it to 8x...

i just can't see apple doing this though... if this did happen, apple is spending more money than they need to, or they're going to announce someday "happy birthday! your superdrive is now magically dual-layer!"... if i was rich enough to buy a G5, i'd get it with a Combo drive and get an external DL DVD burner... i'd be pretty disappointed if apple did that to me...

it just doesn't seem plausible...

reality

 

[Diatribe]

If Apple was getting the 5GB Seagates before xmas already for the production of the 5GB minis then it is plausible that they took these in order to meet demand. Makes perfect sense since they don't lose any money on that.
Now Apple giving that extra GB free is not plausible.

 

[JeDiBoYTJ]

If Apple was getting the 5GB Seagates before xmas already for the production of the 5GB minis then it is plausible that they took these in order to meet demand. Makes perfect sense since they don't lose any money on that.
Now Apple giving that extra GB free is not plausible.

I think that makes sense...

I highly doubt they will make that extra GB available, because there is probably a mixture of the 4GB Hitachi's, and the 5GB Seagates out there. And if they do make it available, there will be a lot of pissed off customers who bought an iPod during the holiday season, who DONT have the new 5GB drive... know what im saying?

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Nah... don't seem reasonable... if Apple has started putting 5 GB disks in the mini they would advertise it as a minor updated product (not a new generation). They would just sell out the old ones and then start delivering the 5 GB when empty (at first as a nice surprice to the last 4 GB buyers).

I guess new minis with 5 GB disks will be announced on MWSF Tuesday, and to those complaining: It's a 25% upgrade in under a year, not too shabby... later this year they may release a 10 GB version, but I think those disks are too expencive at the moment...

 

[northen]

This is because of the interpretation of bytes. In reality, 1 kilobyte is 1024 bytes, 1 megabyte is 1024 kilobytes, and 1 gigabyte is 1024 megabytes - but for advertising purposes, the numbers are rounded to 1000, which makes a 74 gig hard drive 80, a 112 ->120, 18 ->20 and so on. Some "proffessional" grade hard drive companies that manufacture extremely expensive drives have started to use the actual size of the hard drive as used by the computer in advertising, so as not to deceive the customer more.

Actually, that is a very common misconception. The kilo/mega/giga/tera/peta/exa/yotta prefixes are SI prefixes, meaning 10^3 = 1000 bytes etc, and are thus decimal, because they are 10-centric.

If you want the 8-byte standard, you have to use the *Bi-prefixes - Kibibyte, which is 2^10 = 1024, or what we associate with a `kilobyte`. Kibi stands for Kilo Binary.

I would recommend you check out the IEC's (International Electrotechnical Commision) standards about the binary prefix.

Kibi, Mebi, Gibi, Tibi, Pebi, Exbi, Zibi, Yobi

 

[solvs]

My 20 gig iPod only had 18 gigs. so don't expect as advertised. Apple forgets to tell these things.

Actually they don't. If you look on Apple site, it says at the bottom of anything that has a hard drive (even the iPod) 1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.

Rumors about this have been circulating for about two weeks now.

Rumors about this have been around since the 5GB model from Seagate was first announced.

Nah... don't seem reasonable... if Apple has started putting 5 GB disks in the mini they would advertise it as a minor updated product.

Exactly. They may cripple some things due to heat or to distinguish it from higher end models, but why would they do this without just selling out the 4gig model and doing a minor bump. Plus, there are people who reformat their iPods and even some who crack them open. We probably would have heard about it by now.

There would be no reason for them to do this. No reason.

 

[JeDiBoYTJ]

OR, maybe Seagate made a few 4GB drives

 

[psycho bob]

First off, what would using the old firmware have to do anything. The most likely "change" would just be that the HD was manually set with the number of cylinders/heads/tracks/sectors to give it 4 gigs... the same information that is likely to be present in the 4 gig devices.

Second, what "legal ramifications" would be "severe" and to whom? If Apple chose to put in a 5 gig drive and advertise it (and utilize) it as a 4 gig, that's their prerogative. If they do this and the end user choses to void their warranty by hacing the firmware, that's their's. There's nothing illegal about any of it. Apple doesn't make any claims that their devices can be used in any other way that advertised and there is no EULA that says you can't do whatever the hell you want with it after you buy it. (They do make some statement that you shouldn't use it to listen to illegally attained materials, but even if they didn't it would only be the end users problem, not Apples).

Rob

There are no manual settings as such with microdrives and to my knowledge they have no firmware either (least not of a type that can be flashed) so you would be talking a physical setting on the PCB in the drive which would require a modification to the complete line just for a few thousand to give to apple. The other alternative is to physically limit the amount of data the Pod sees within its own firmware. Some people have suggested that apple could magically release an update to unlock the extra 1Gb but as all mini's have the same firmware versions this ain't going to happen.
Apple have sold the mini as a 4Gb player and people have bought it as such, if during the same time frame apple have sold Hitachi fitted units as well as modified Seagate ones and then choose to unlock these then people who ended up with an unchangeable HM model have the right to ask for a replacement. Such an act would cause confusion and distrust within the customer base it will not happen certainly not through official channels. Now as for the end user doing a modification I quite agree that has nothing to do with apple but where and in what form would this mod take? It won't be a Pod modification and I doubt anyone knows enough about Microdrives to go changing one of those and is it really worth it for an extra Gb. Besides as you said yourself if the drive was physically modified then there is no going back. All it takes is for some brave soul to take there ST designated microdrive out of the mini and try reformatting it on a computer or in a camera and see if anything turns up if it doesn't I doubt there is a way to unlock it at least not one that the average Joe could do.

 

[Counterfit]

OR, maybe Seagate made a few 4GB drives

I'm going with that

 

[Rincewind42]

Actually, that is a very common misconception. The kilo/mega/giga/tera/peta/exa/yotta prefixes are SI prefixes, meaning 10^3 = 1000 bytes etc, and are thus decimal, because they are 10-centric.

Unless you've been around from before these prefixes ever came to light. Originally kilo/mega/etc when dealing with computers always meant multiples of 1024. There were no exceptions to this, including HD manufacturers. Back before the half gig mark however, someone in marketing had the bright idea of "formatted capacity" and 1K=1000 bytes which magically increased the capacity of their hard drives. At the time, it actually was plausible that you could lose a couple of megabytes to formatting on a hard disk that was a few hundred megabytes in size. But by the time you get to the multi gigabyte sizes, your losing hundreds of megabytes to "formatting" and people just don't buy it anymore.

Just like any other computer equipment, hard disks internally use 1K=1024 for their operation (sector sizes on HDs are natively 512 bytes). If you go back a dozen years or so and find an old <100MB HD, you will find it's size is measured such that 1K=1024 bytes.