Recent thread locks

[tobefirst ⚽️]

Two recent Site and Forum Feedback threads have been locked to replies. I'm curious as to why. Typically, when a thread has been locked, the last post has been from a moderator stating specifically why, but in the two instances, the last posts are from @annk, without really a direct, specific reason. Most, if not all, posters were abiding by the rules.

 

[annk]

Two recent Site and Forum Feedback threads have been locked to replies. I'm curious as to why. Typically, when a thread has been locked, the last post has been from a moderator stating specifically why, but in the two instances, the last posts are from @annk, without really a direct, specific reason. Most, if not all, posters were abiding by the rules.

I was quite clear in my post in the Cyberbullying thread:

"Referring to specific moderation in threads is not allowed. Since there are references to specific moderation in this thread, I've closed it for further comments."

Speaking generally: We strive to allow Site and Forum Feedback threads to remain open. When we do close them, it's usually because of violations, but there can be other reasons such as a discussion going on and on with no new information, or where the same issues are raised multiple times. The goal however is to keep them open.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

I was quite clear in my post in the Cyberbullying thread:

"Referring to specific moderation in threads is not allowed. Since there are references to specific moderation in this thread, I've closed it for further comments."

Speaking generally: We strive to allow Site and Forum Feedback threads to remain open. When we do close them, it's usually because of violations, but there can be other reasons such as a discussion going on and on with no new information, or where the same issues are raised multiple times. The goal however is to keep them open.

My apologies. I missed that.

 

[annk]

My apologies. I missed that.

No worries.

 

[chown33]

I was quite clear in my post in the Cyberbullying thread:

"Referring to specific moderation in threads is not allowed. Since there are references to specific moderation in this thread, I've closed it for further comments."

Speaking generally: We strive to allow Site and Forum Feedback threads to remain open. When we do close them, it's usually because of violations, but there can be other reasons such as a discussion going on and on with no new information, or where the same issues are raised multiple times. The goal however is to keep them open.

I have a question about the underlined.

If a member wishes to discuss a specific instance of moderation, and waives their right to privacy of moderation, is it permissible to discuss the specific moderation?

I ask because I distinctly recall a couple threads in the SFF forum in the past year where a member waived their right to privacy, and the admins then presented some specifics of the posts that were moderated. In one case I can recall, the presented evidence was pretty clearly against the moderated member. I can look for the threads, which I haven't done yet.

If the privacy waiver is a mechanism that allows for public (i.e. thread-based as distinct from Conversation (PM) based) discussion, then I think it would be useful information for members to have, if they wish to discuss their own moderation publicly.

Obviously, if there's more than one member involved in a moderation incident, you can't disclose the other member's info without a waiver, but sometimes it may be enough to see one side in all it's, uh, glory.

EDIT

I went back through this forum's available threads from 2019 and 2018.

One thread where a member waives privacy and gets a reply from an admin about the specific moderation was this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/permission-for-public-moderation.2140886/

I thought there was a second one, but I couldn't find it. I may be misremembering, or it may no longer be available, or it may have been earlier than 2018.


Another thread that seems relevant both here and in the now-locked Cyberbullying thread is this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-feel-like-a-particular-mod-picks-on-them.2105138/

The entire thread is an interesting read, not least because it helps establish some context. I picked a few posts that seem to have some relevance to the Cyberbullying thread and waiving of privacy:

.. Why there's a rule against discussing specific moderation
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-2#post-25873586

.. On waiving privacy
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-3#post-25881813

.. On using Contact Us to discuss specific moderation
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-9#post-25903992

 

[apolloa]

Two recent Site and Forum Feedback threads have been locked to replies. I'm curious as to why. Typically, when a thread has been locked, the last post has been from a moderator stating specifically why, but in the two instances, the last posts are from @annk, without really a direct, specific reason. Most, if not all, posters were abiding by the rules.

Yeah, I noticed what I considered to be a slightly condescending reply to my thread before locking it... a nice way to get your mouth in and stop any reply back to you.
I was going to talk about American attitude being perhaps a bit harsh and not really considerate and a bit ignorant of the different cultures and attitudes of other nationalities that post on here, It causes differences of opinions not understood or appreciated properly on BOTH sides, but I digress.. This is Mac Rumors.

I tried to steer from any specific mentions, and I did not name a single person or instance of moderation, yet my thread was closed, I tried to use only examples to back up my claim in the OP.

But so be it, it is your site, but please remember, you have to abide by the LAWS in the countries you operate, the same as Facebook and YouTube.

 

[ericgtr12]

I'll just say that the mod having the last word before closing a thread is one of the few things they can get a bit of satisfaction from, not that they're out for it, but it's one of the benefits. Would love to see more "this thread has turned into a turd, locking" way easier than having to weed out the offenders from the trenches.

On another note, is it just me or is the lock missing from the locked threads?

 

[I7guy]

I have a question about the underlined.

If a member wishes to discuss a specific instance of moderation, and waives their right to privacy of moderation, is it permissible to discuss the specific moderation?

I ask because I distinctly recall a couple threads in the SFF forum in the past year where a member waived their right to privacy, and the admins then presented some specifics of the posts that were moderated. In one case I can recall, the presented evidence was pretty clearly against the moderated member. I can look for the threads, which I haven't done yet.

If the privacy waiver is a mechanism that allows for public (i.e. thread-based as distinct from Conversation (PM) based) discussion, then I think it would be useful information for members to have, if they wish to discuss their own moderation publicly.

Obviously, if there's more than one member involved in a moderation incident, you can't disclose the other member's info without a waiver, but sometimes it may be enough to see one side in all it's, uh, glory.

EDIT

I went back through this forum's available threads from 2019 and 2018.

One thread where a member waives privacy and gets a reply from an admin about the specific moderation was this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/permission-for-public-moderation.2140886/

I thought there was a second one, but I couldn't find it. I may be misremembering, or it may no longer be available, or it may have been earlier than 2018.


Another thread that seems relevant both here and in the now-locked Cyberbullying thread is this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-else-feel-like-a-particular-mod-picks-on-them.2105138/

The entire thread is an interesting read, not least because it helps establish some context. I picked a few posts that seem to have some relevance to the Cyberbullying thread and waiving of privacy:

.. Why there's a rule against discussing specific moderation
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-2#post-25873586

.. On waiving privacy
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-3#post-25881813

.. On using Contact Us to discuss specific moderation
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...od-picks-on-them.2105138/page-9#post-25903992

Within the last year or so a few threads (three instances), which I can remember on waiving the moderation privacy. And yes, all of those threads were painful to read...imo people don't own up to their end of what was posted.

 

[annk]

I have a question about the underlined.

If a member wishes to discuss a specific instance of moderation, and waives their right to privacy of moderation, is it permissible to discuss the specific moderation?

[...]

If the privacy waiver is a mechanism that allows for public (i.e. thread-based as distinct from Conversation (PM) based) discussion, then I think it would be useful information for members to have, if they wish to discuss their own moderation publicly.

Yes, this is the case (except that moderation discussions don't go via PM, but rather the Contact Us form which all staff members see). Users do have this information - it's in the Moderation FAQ.

The order of events is important here. A user can waive the right to privacy, then ask his or her question related to specific moderation publicly. It's not okay however to first break the rule by posting about specific moderation, then waive privacy. This is just common sense, but I thought I'd mention it.

In my personal opinion, users are much better served by sending the first question or complaint in privately. Many issues are resolved through a polite exchange, and that way the user doesn't get his/her entire moderation history laid out for everyone to see and comment on.

The privacy policy is in place to protect users, not to protect the staff. Once a user's moderation history is out there for all to see, you can't unring the bell so to speak.

That said, I'm certainly not trying to discourage users who want to waive their privacy, I'm just stating my opinion.

But so be it, it is your site, but please remember, you have to abide by the LAWS in the countries you operate, the same as Facebook and YouTube.

Not sure what you mean here in the context of this particular discussion - are you implying that we haven't followed the law? If you feel something illegal is going on, either let us know in a contact message so we can document it and send it on to the site owner, or contact the site owner directly.

Keep in mind that the laws of a country and the forum rules are two different things. You might for example have a very broad right to free speech in a country, whereas you have to follow the rules of a group you yourself choose to sign up for. In the case of MacRumors, you agree to the rules as part of the registration procedure. If you feel a rule breaks a law, I encourage you to let us know.

I'll just say that the mod having the last word before closing a thread is one of the few things they can get a bit of satisfaction from, not that they're out for it, but it's one of the benefits...

Believe me, there's no satisfaction in having to close a thread. I find it very discouraging.

Within the last year or so a few threads (three instances), which I can remember on waiving the moderation privacy. And yes, all of those threads were painful to read...imo people don't own up to their end of what was posted.

Yeah, I personally don't think much good comes of it. But it is a possibility, for those who want to do it that way.

 

[ericgtr12]

Believe me, there's no satisfaction in having to close a thread. I find it very discouraging.

More discouraging than spending all that time picking through a thread to clean it up and reprimand offenders who have already ruined the discussion? In many cases, a couple of people who are arguing back and forth will effectively hijack the thread and can go on for page after page while everyone else has given up on the conversation and moved on.

Moderators have the unique advantage to use the last word to publicly say enough is enough and warn the offender(s) lout loud that enough is enough. This way if they continue to offend at least the community will get why they've been suspended, etc.

 

[annk]

More discouraging than spending all that time picking through a thread to clean it up and reprimand offenders who have already ruined the discussion? In many cases, a couple of people who are arguing back and forth will effectively hijack the thread and can go on for page after page while everyone else has given up on the conversation and moved on.

I would yes, at least most of the time. I don't think any of us enjoy picking through a thread to clean it up and do all the moderation that entails, but at least that's the way we can keep a discussion open.

Closing a thread feels like throwing in the towel, even when I know it's what needs to be done, and it pains me to have to stop the rule-abiding users from continuing the convo.

But I do see your point.

Moderators have the unique advantage to use the last word to publicly say enough is enough and warn the offender(s) lout loud that enough is enough.

This is true, and we do very occasionally use that tool

This way if they continue to offend at least the community will get why they've been suspended, etc.

But that presents its own problems, because moderation is supposed to be private.

The goal is no moderation necessary, as unrealistic as that sounds!

 

[samiwas]

I'll just say that the mod having the last word before closing a thread is one of the few things they can get a bit of satisfaction from, not that they're out for it, but it's one of the benefits. Would love to see more "this thread has turned into a turd, locking" way easier than having to weed out the offenders from the trenches.

On another note, is it just me or is the lock missing from the locked threads?

Moderation on this forum is far better than the other forum I spend my time on. The moderator there is simply horrible. She locks threads if anything even remotely not on topic is mentioned. If you even think about mentioning a moderation action, your post is deleted and your ability to post is taken away for a week. If you write a ten paragraph post full of information, but one sentence is off topic or breaks a rule, the entire post is deleted. It really brings the forum down. When I wrote the site moderator a long letter about her actions, his response was simply "don't say bad things".

 

[I7guy]

Moderation on this forum is far better than the other forum I spend my time on. The moderator there is simply horrible. She locks threads if anything even remotely not on topic is mentioned. If you even think about mentioning a moderation action, your post is deleted and your ability to post is taken away for a week. If you write a ten paragraph post full of information, but one sentence is off topic or breaks a rule, the entire post is deleted. It really brings the forum down. When I wrote the site moderator a long letter about her actions, his response was simply "don't say bad things".

At least here one can have a discussion with the admin/staff/moderators and they are open to listening to feedback, should one want to join that conversation.

I think that is one big plus for this site. (Other than the breadth and depth of coverage of the mobile world)