Red "X" to close windows...

[johny5]

Originally a long time pc user etc etc, totally happy with all my Mac's (4 of em ) and did notice when I first using them - closing windows down.

Obviously M$ red x closes the application down, ok.

What I dont understand is that when I click the red x on OSX windows various things happen depending on what program/window you have open.

eg, point one: Mail, I double click the top bar, the mail app minimises itself genie style to the bottoms of the screen. But when I click the red X on Mail, it dissapears but as you can see in the dock by the small black indicator the program is still running.

point two, this isnt the same with "system prefs" you click the red X and it unloads the system prefs (ok this might not be an app and only a window)

point three, Firefox, you click the red X and it also wants to close the program down. Ok so its not an Apple app, but you can see where I am coming from, all of the windows don't appear to have the same actions when you click the red X and its only because Ive been using OSX for 8 months that I am used to it now and know the different results.

Any reason for this?

 

[swiftaw]

Single window applications, such as System Prefs and iPhoto, clicking the red button closes the window and therefore app.

Multi-window apps, which is most apps, clicking the red button closes the window but not the app.

 

[johny5]

Ahhh kind of makes sense...but "Mail" a multi window App?

 

[swiftaw]

Ahhh kind of makes sense...but "Mail" a multi window App?

Yes. double click on a message, it opens up another window. Compose a message it opens up another window. Hence, a multi-window app.

 

[Much Ado]

Ahhh kind of makes sense...but "Mail" a multi window App?

The idea is also that you can close mail's main window, but still have it running in the background, so it will buzz whenever you get a new email.

It's very nifty.

 

[phillipjfry]

That is something I can never get used to for using PCs for so long. X means "close" but not Window's version of "close"
But there is a plus to it all since having the window closed but not the app shut down, you can get things like todays date on iCal, or notifications through Mail

 

[Matek]

Azureus also seems to be a multi-window app, yet you can open up a couple windows (new torrent, etc.), click on the X button of the main window and it shuts down completely.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

That is something I can never get used to for using PCs for so long. X means "close" but not Window's version of "close"
But there is a plus to it all since having the window closed but not the app shut down, you can get things like todays date on iCal, or notifications through Mail

I looked at it this way: windows are just tools for applications for you to see what's going on. The actual application is just a process running in the background. In Windows, the application IS the window.

Keeping this in mind, I never had a problem with closing apps with Q, but now it's just second nature and I don't give it much thought any more.

 

[xUKHCx]

Azureus also seems to be a multi-window app, yet you can open up a couple windows (new torrent, etc.), click on the X button of the main window and it shuts down completely.

Azureus does seem to be the exception.

The way i think of it if the application is still useful without any windows open then the program will not close when you press the red button.

 

[notsofatjames]

Azureus also seems to be a multi-window app, yet you can open up a couple windows (new torrent, etc.), click on the X button of the main window and it shuts down completely.

thats no longer true. You can change the settings to allow azureus to continue running when you close the window. I cant remember exactly where it is, but it's called 'Close minimizes to menu bar or something like that. You have to have the menu bar icon on though.

EDIT: But if you press command+w it closes all the tabs then the window, so when you re-open the window its got no tabs open. That's a tad annoying.

 

[epicwelshman]

Give yourself a bit of practice with the keyboard shortcuts. Before too long you'll get the hang of W and Q to either close the window or shut down the application.

 

[darkcurse]

No, closing the windows via the red "x" does not shut the program down. At least mine doesn't and I think mine is the latest one. Not Vuze.

 

[AdeFowler]

Why would you ever close Mail's main window? Is it not just easier to hide Mail (Command-H).

For what it's worth it all makes perfect sense to me. I never quit InDesign, Photoshop or Illustrator, but I don't need an open window in order to keep them running - they're just there when I need them (not sure how this works on Windows).

 

[richard.mac]

i love the fact that the 'X' closes a window and not the app. allows me to close windows with many documents open in pages and preview without closing the app. it also allows me to leave my most used apps open all the time without a window on the screen and stored in RAM so they open quickly the second time. steve jobs does this all the time in keynote demos. its also very useful for mail, adium, toast, transmission etc which have little notifications on the dock icon.

i hate the way microsoft have implemented the 'X'. pc users become so accustomed to thinking that clicking the X will close the window and therefore the app. this approach also encourages windows users to use apps in "full screen mode" so when they have finished with the app they click to X to close it and then move onto the next app essentially ruining their workflow. also think about this:

say your on internet explorer or firefox in Windows and youve got two windows open. click the X of one of the windows... does the app close? no only the window closes. this is where Windows fails in window and app management and Mac OS X shines.

some developers for windows apps have noticed the usefulness of this idea. this can be seen in utorrent and limewire which minimises to the taskbar when closed. can anyone think of any others?
pfft even microsoft apps dont close when you click the X... such as outlook! HA!

 

[notsofatjames]

Why would you ever close Mail's main window? Is it not just easier to hide Mail (Command-H).
.

Close or Hide, does practically the same thing. Closing Mail's main window only closes the window not the app. I find command+h harder to press. It requires 2 hands as far as im concerned.

 

[AdeFowler]

Close or Hide, does practically the same thing

Well not really, because when you switch back to Mail having closed message viewer, there's no window, so you have to go to the Window menu and select Message Viewer, which to me seems like a lot more buggering about 30+ times a day When you hide the app, it's still there just as you left it.

I'm looking forward to Spaces, which should spell the end of window clutter.

 

[notsofatjames]

Well not really, because when you switch back to Mail having closed message viewer, there's no window, so you have to go to the Window menu and select Message Viewer, which to me seems like a lot more buggering about 30+ times a day When you hide the app, it's still there just as you left it.

I'm looking forward to Spaces, which should spell the end of window clutter.

I see your point, however I tend to use the mouse a tad more.

 

[RacerX]

Obviously M$ red x closes the application down, ok.

What I dont understand is that when I click the red x on OSX windows various things happen depending on what program/window you have open...

Any reason for this?

Actually it goes back to the history of where Windows originally came from compared to the other GUI based operating systems.

For Apple, NeXT, SGI and Sun (along with others), applications were not restricted to a root window. Microsoft (by contrast) started out with GUI apps in DOS that would run with a Windows shell, and the application instance became the parent window. This was carried forward for future versions of Windows even after DOS was replaced by Windows. The characteristics that Windows displays are actually the odd ones, not the rest of the computing world.

But to illustrate this point, try this on a Windows system if you have one... Open up Photoshop, Illustrator and Adobe Reader, and then work with all the individual documents within those apps at the same time. Because of the rooted application environment, apps like Photoshop open images in sub-windows to the root window... but this isn't the case with the Mac OS or other platforms.

And the best example of this is to show this on a non-Apple system, like my SGI Indy...

In that screen shot I have Photoshop 3.0.1, Illustrator 5.5 and Acrobat Reader 4.0 all displaying content at the same time with the different document windows interlaced (which is actually more than what happens in the Mac environment).

The Windows limitation seems normal to people because that is the only thing they have been exposed to, but seeing as Windows was actually a late arrival as far as GUIs are concerned (and was forced to be backwards compatible with the apps designed for the shell version of Windows), it really should be considered the one having the odd characteristics here.

 

[72930]

I'm looking forward to Spaces, which should spell the end of window clutter.

Are you familiar with Exposé? If not, try pressing F9 when you have multiple apps open

 

[johny5]

Actually it goes back to the history of where Windows originally came from compared to the other GUI based operating systems.

Thanks for the detailed description, very informative!

I do use cmd+q to close my apps down and now I know about cmd+w i will use that also.
After using windows for quite a long time I got it set in my mind that if i am not using an app for some time i need to shut it down and I guess i really dont need to anyway

 

[contoursvt]

Doesnt 'minimize' in windows land do the same thing? Application vanishes from sight but still running in the background? I also dont quite get the benefit of independant application vs window thing. I mean I understand the idea but in real world usage, I cant see the benefit

The idea is also that you can close mail's main window, but still have it running in the background, so it will buzz whenever you get a new email.

It's very nifty.