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Relatively affordable way to film in 96FPS 1080p?

T

twiggy0

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 8, 2009
352
0
I've been doing music videos for a while now and I'm looking to get that slow-mo effect in some cuts. I film with a 5DII, but hate that it doesn't have any slow-mo capabilities at 1080p, and I don't want to reduce my quality just to get 60fps. Any advice on what route I should take? Do any DSLR's have 96fps 1080p?

Thanks in advance!
 
twiggy0 said:
I've been doing music videos for a while now and I'm looking to get that slow-mo effect in some cuts. I film with a 5DII, but hate that it doesn't have any slow-mo capabilities at 1080p, and I don't want to reduce my quality just to get 60fps. Any advice on what route I should take? Do any DSLR's have 96fps 1080p?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Simple answer is no. You're not going to find any prosumer cameras that will shoot that high fps at 1080p.

Your best best is to use a plugin like twixtor (I believe that's what it's called) or something similar in your NLE or compositor in addition to the highest frame rate you can shoot. However this will probably not result in the quality you're seeking. It I feel as though the quality you're seeking is out of your budget.
 
twiggy0 said:
I've been doing music videos for a while now and I'm looking to get that slow-mo effect in some cuts. I film with a 5DII, but hate that it doesn't have any slow-mo capabilities at 1080p, and I don't want to reduce my quality just to get 60fps. Any advice on what route I should take? Do any DSLR's have 96fps 1080p?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Look at renting an FS700 when it comes out. That's the only way to really get what your asking in a hardware based solution.
 
jetjaguar said:
Can only do 240fps at full hd .. 960fps is in a super low res and looks crappy
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OP was asking for 96fps. Not 960fps. That would only be possible on something like a phantom which is well out of the DSLR budget.
 
handsome pete said:
Simple answer is no. You're not going to find any prosumer cameras that will shoot that high fps at 1080p.

Your best best is to use a plugin like twixtor (I believe that's what it's called) or something similar in your NLE or compositor in addition to the highest frame rate you can shoot. However this will probably not result in the quality you're seeking. It I feel as though the quality you're seeking is out of your budget.
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i'd try this as the cheaper option to start. it's pretty good.
 
720p is low quality? I know people showing their feature films in IMAX with 720p60 footage uprez'd. If you're asking this question I assume the difference between 720 and 1080 has ZERO difference for your delivery method or end quality.
 
What is the price of an FS700? Or rather, what is it estimated to cost? I would consider investing in a camera that shoots in the specifications I stated if it's not overwhelmingly more expensive then a 5DII, maybe $4000 at most. I just feel that in music videos today, having slow motion scenes brings so much more to the end result.
 
twiggy0 said:
I would consider investing in a camera that shoots in the specifications I stated if it's not overwhelmingly more expensive then a 5DII, maybe $4000 at most.
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FS700 is going to be somewhere around $10,000. I don't really think you should buy a camera like this, just rent it when you need it. Digital cinema is in such a state of flux right now that I don't think it's wise to heavily invest in anything right now at that level unless you're going to be using that stuff to its full potential every day.

There are several newer DSLRs out there that will shoot 60fps at the full 1080p for significantly less than $4000 to own. It's not 96, but perhaps it's a good compromise?
 
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ppc_michael said:
There are several newer DSLRs out there that will shoot 60fps at the full 1080p for significantly less than $4000 to own. It's not 96, but perhaps it's a good compromise?
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What DSLRs do 60fps at 1080p? Maybe that with twixtor could do the trick for now.
 
Several of the Sony DSLRs will shoot in 1080p/60fps. I haven't really looked into them closely, but for example the Sony A65 can do this for $1000 I was hoping with the release of the new T4i that they would upgrade it to 60fps but they didn't.

Also, before you just go buy a dslr, I'd first step down to 720p/60fps on your 5DII and run it through twixtor or fcpx with optical flow. This will give you an idea for how well the programs will work and what you can do with the footage. Also, mess around with what improves the overall look. You will find that certain backgrounds will improve the results and prevent an almost water ripple effect around the moving object.
 
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diamond3 said:
Several of the Sony DSLRs will shoot in 1080p/60fps. I haven't really looked into them closely, but for example the Sony A65 can do this for $1000 I was hoping with the release of the new T4i that they would upgrade it to 60fps but they didn't.

Also, before you just go buy a dslr, I'd first step down to 720p/60fps on your 5DII and run it through twixtor or fcpx with optical flow. This will give you an idea for how well the programs will work and what you can do with the footage. Also, mess around with what improves the overall look. You will find that certain backgrounds will improve the results and prevent an almost water ripple effect around the moving object.
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from my understanding with the sony dslrs is that when you record 60 frames at 1080p the bit rate gets halfed which makes it look awful.

check out philip bloom's website or cinema5d .. I'm sure there is more info there.

if you wanna do 60 frames at 1080p then your only real option is to rent an fs100 ... which does 60 frames at full hd
 
jetjaguar said:
from my understanding with the sony dslrs is that when you record 60 frames at 1080p the bit rate gets halfed which makes it look awful.
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That's interesting, I was unaware. I wonder how much the quality actually suffers from the lowered bitrate? At the higher framerate, much less will be changing between each frame, so I imagine h.264's B frames would become much more efficient and not really require all that much bandwidth. Unless it's recording all I frames?
 
jetjaguar said:
from my understanding with the sony dslrs is that when you record 60 frames at 1080p the bit rate gets halfed which makes it look awful.

check out philip bloom's website or cinema5d .. I'm sure there is more info there.

if you wanna do 60 frames at 1080p then your only real option is to rent an fs100 ... which does 60 frames at full hd
Click to expand...

That's a good point you mention that I hadn't looked into, but it looks like the fs100 is the same way recording at 28mbps in 1920x1080p/60fps just like the sony dslr.
bhphoto FS100 link
 
ppc_michael said:
You know people who don't have a clue.
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Oh really. You do know that almost all action sports POV is shot on Go Pros and they shoot 720p60? And you also know that those have been in IMAX? My friends shoot more of the most talked about, ground breaking, influential stuff and they uprez from 720p. I'm glad your home movies are in 1080 though smart guy.

They mix 720p with phantom, cineflex, 35mm film seamlessly. Sounds like you and the submitter don't know post production workflows.

But I'm sure his "music videos" he is either delivering in DVD or posting online will totally notice the difference.
 
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Low ISO 720p done properly can look great at 1080p...just saying...Im not a pro but I've done it and with a hint of edge sharpening (sometimes not at all) you really can't tell the difference. Remember 720p is not half of 1080p its only really 3/4th's of 1080p which mean upscaling isn't that unrealistic...
 
WRP said:
Oh really. You do know that almost all action sports POV is shot on Go Pros and they shoot 720p60? And you also know that those have been in IMAX? My friends shoot more of the most talked about, ground breaking, influential stuff and they uprez from 720p. I'm glad your home movies are in 1080 though smart guy.

They mix 720p with phantom, cineflex, 35mm film seamlessly. Sounds like you and the submitter don't know post production workflows.

But I'm sure his "music videos" he is either delivering in DVD or posting online will totally notice the difference.
Click to expand...

Settle down; you sound confused and upset and are failing to contribute anything to the thread.

nateo200 said:
Low ISO 720p done properly can look great at 1080p...
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I agree, although with footage that is stored compressed (especially h.264) I think it could really accentuate the compression artifacts. But certainly the OP has several options here.
 
ppc_michael said:
Settle down; you sound confused and upset and are failing to contribute anything to the thread.
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You said my acquaintances didn't have a clue and I was explaining they have more clout than you.

And I explaining to the OP that his thought of an affordable camera to shoot high frame rates for slow motion is easy. 720p is NOT low quality as he suggests.
 
ppc_michael said:
I agree, although with footage that is stored compressed (especially h.264) I think it could really accentuate the compression artifacts. But certainly the OP has several options here.
Click to expand...

I was thinking he could pull a live uncompressed feed of the 720p60 but the 5D Mk.II doesn't allow a clean uncompressed HD feed out of its HDMI and I thought it didn't do 60fps at all....?...I mean I know the 7D has it and my camera has it but I thought the 5D didn't get that yet..unless there's been an update. As for the compression being an issue I agree although Canon DSLR's do give a very healthy bit rate to video, 1080p30 or 24p I usually see 40-47mbps but with 720p60 Ive seen it usually at that rate or higher with bit rate spikes as high as 60mbps...pretty impressive stuff. I never understood why AVCHD was so complex compared to DSLR AVC just being high bit rate AVC clips with PCM...(why on earth does AVCHD use AC-3...Its a delivery format! :O).
 
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matteusclement said:
i'd try this as the cheaper option to start. it's pretty good.
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It's not necessarily the cheaper option as the twixtor pro plugin is over $500. I realise that you can hold onto the product for ever but I think it's really obvious when twixtor is used either from the tell tale ghosting or the good slow motion which is usually on a flat background of sky, wall etc...
 
The problem with Canon DSLR's is that they are a little softer looking so 720p really does look very low resolution. A good camera at 720p however can actually look sharper and have more detail then many 1080 cameras. Resolution is not everything and is in fact the least important factor when it comes to image quality. Plus knowing how hot those cameras get even just shooting 1080p 24p they would burst into flames if they even tried to record 96 fps at 1080p. It is the image processor in the camera that can only handle so much raw data getting pumped through the camera. Perhaps if there was a DSLR that only did video and didn't need to process 4000x3000 pixels it could be done.

A Panasonic GH2 even shooting 720p will have as much raw detail if not more then a Canon DSLR at 1080p.

There are also a couple of Panasonic consumer video cameras that shoot insane high detail 1080p 60p in good lighting. As long as you give them enough light they are some of the best looking 1080p 60p out there.

Keep in mind another option is to shoot normal 60i. I know it sucks but it has as many unique frames as 60p. You may have to balance which is the lesser of two evils, 720p 60p or 1080i 60i. In the end both will have compromises although I highly recommend the 720p over the 1080i as long as it is a good 720p camera like a GH2.

The way Twixtor and other software such as optical flow in FCP X work is they calculate difference between frames and try to create new frames. The bigger the jump the harder it is. If you shoot 60 and only conform to 120 that means the software only has to predict 1 frame in between two other frames. That is much easier to do. 60p also samples an image much more frequently so changes between each frame are much lower which makes it easier. Keep in mind however it is slow and even with small levels of prediction can still create some odd looking artifacts. Using this type of software can work miracles but you really have to consider it a cross your fingers situation.
 
twiggy0 said:
I've been doing music videos for a while now and I'm looking to get that slow-mo effect in some cuts. I film with a 5DII, but hate that it doesn't have any slow-mo capabilities at 1080p, and I don't want to reduce my quality just to get 60fps. Any advice on what route I should take? Do any DSLR's have 96fps 1080p?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Try the twixtor. You can slow motion everything to 1% but it will still look like 30 FPS.
 
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