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Retina Macbook Pro 8gb is actually 16gb

T

thatguy215

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 13, 2012
44
0
Hey everyone,

I was just talking to an apple representative online and she told me that for the new Retina Macbook Pro, 8gb of ram actually acts as 16gb because it is flash storage.

Has anyone been able to confirm this?

Because this is a flash based computer which in effect doubles the ram capacity. So 8gb is like 16gb and 16gb is like 32gb.
 
They must be mistaken

The only effect it being flash based would have is that any page outs you have when RAM is running low will be faster, minimising beach balls. But no, RAM does not get doubled that doesn't make sense.
 
If they are saying the ssd swap space is as good as RAM they are speaking with forked tongue.
 
Reminds me of an old article where the magazine spoke to an eMachines technical support person and they were so proud of the fact that just two weeks ago they didn't even know how to turn on a computer.
 
they were clumsily telling you that paging is quicker with SSDs (copying data from disk to ram) that you can survive better with less ram if you have a SSD. Its still not as good as having more ram though as paging is still not "free" with an SSD.
 
I think it she may have been trying to say that maximum RAM capacity would be less important for some people because of the faster disk access of the SSD, so loading something from disk to RAM is much faster.

Relative speeds:
HDD < SSD/Flash < RAM

The 8GB Retina Macbook Pro has 8GB of DRAM on the logic board, not 16 or 32 or any other amount. If you use applications that combined with the OS try to keep more than 8GB worth of stuff in RAM, it will have to page out to the SSD, which is faster than an old mechanical HDD but slower than RAM.
 
Sorry - it does not make sense at all.

Space is space. Even if it were slightly faster, you still would not have 16GB of addressable memory space.

They lied.

R
 
To give some indication of just how much crap is talked by Apple staff, I overheard one of the sales staff in the Apple Store say, today, and I quote:

"This isn't just the most high resolution Mac that we've ever made, it's the greatest Mac we've ever made, period."

Keep in mind, I live in Scotland, and we don't say period. Cringeworthy stuff.
 
NutsNGum said:
I overheard one of the sales staff in the Apple Store say, today, and I quote:

"This isn't just the most high resolution Mac that we've ever made, it's the greatest Mac we've ever made, period."

Keep in mind, I live in Scotland, and we don't say period. Cringeworthy stuff.
Click to expand...

Ouch. Straight from the mouth of the marketing department.
 
thatguy215 said:
Hey everyone,

I was just talking to an apple representative online and she told me that for the new Retina Macbook Pro, 8gb of ram actually acts as 16gb because it is flash storage.

Has anyone been able to confirm this?

Because this is a flash based computer which in effect doubles the ram capacity. So 8gb is like 16gb and 16gb is like 32gb.
Click to expand...

I'll send it over straight away. 8GBto16GB.exe
 
No.

RAM is memory that loads your software (including OS) as you use them
Hard drive is storage where your applications and software lives

RAM is not flash memory. Flash does not double memory. SSD typically uses MLC - multi-layer cell which naturally has a short life span especially with constant writes.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mk4001grzb-endurance-benchmark,3132-2.html

thatguy215 said:
Hey everyone,

I was just talking to an apple representative online and she told me that for the new Retina Macbook Pro, 8gb of ram actually acts as 16gb because it is flash storage.

Has anyone been able to confirm this?

Because this is a flash based computer which in effect doubles the ram capacity. So 8gb is like 16gb and 16gb is like 32gb.
Click to expand...
 
pragmatous said:
RAM is not flash memory. Flash does not double memory. SSD typically uses MLC - multi-layer cell which naturally has a short life span especially with constant writes.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and that is even an argument that you should have MORE RAM when using flash storage because constant page-outs to flash will reduce the life of your flash storage.
 
thatguy215 said:
Hey everyone,

I was just talking to an apple representative online and she told me that for the new Retina Macbook Pro, 8gb of ram actually acts as 16gb because it is flash storage.
Click to expand...

It's true! Also true -- if you put a Lambrohini hood ornament on a Miata it will go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds.

Seriously though... no. Don't listen to phone reps. They are just glorified order takers with cheat sheets in front of them. They also get evaluated based on there sales rate so they are likely to tell you anything to make sure you don't hang up to ponder what to buy a bit longer.
 
Rhyalus said:
Sorry - it does not make sense at all.

Space is space. Even if it were slightly faster, you still would not have 16GB of addressable memory space.

They lied.

R
Click to expand...

Addressable space on modern CPUs is not constrained by the amount of installed RAM. Its called 'virtual memory'. You can easily allocate much more memory than available RAM, its the job of the OS to manage your data (which entails using your HDD/SSD as RAM 'extension', which people refer to as 'paging out'). It is correct that SSD allows for much much faster paging (due to its very low latency) — still what the Apple guy is saying there is just a poor marketing BS. But well, many of these guys don't know anything about computers...
 
Technically—if we really want to go into it—I believe the Samsung 830 used in these new systems features 256MB of DDR2 ram as a cache. So while it's not even close to an extra 16 or 32GB, 256MB was the total ram in the first system I built myself, lol. And the amount of ram in the first iPad. It's a pretty hefty cache, so it should be helpful at the very least!

I can't wait for non-volatile ram. I remember reading that great advances have been made and they have some functioning units, but it's expensive (I think that was over a year ago). What I wouldn't give for a 1TB ram drive!! Now that would be impressive. Boot would be instantaneous. Like waking from sleep. There would be no reason for sleep mode. Just suspend state in ram and turn off. Now that would be magic. And every file would save before you could blink. Now imagine something like that on an iPad and my head asplodes.
 
RealEvil said:
they were clumsily telling you that paging is quicker with SSDs (copying data from disk to ram) that you can survive better with less ram if you have a SSD. Its still not as good as having more ram though as paging is still not "free" with an SSD.
Click to expand...

This.

If she was trying to sell you the product (assuming 16GB models were sold out or it's more beneficial to her for whatever reason that you buy the 8GB model) you should have asked:

"So does that mean that by upgrading to the 16GB model I am actually getting 16GB more RAM rather than 8GB more? Does this mean the 16GB model is better for the money?"
 
thatguy215 said:
I was just talking to an apple representative online and she told me that for the new Retina Macbook Pro, 8gb of ram actually acts as 16gb because it is flash storage.

Has anyone been able to confirm this?

Because this is a flash based computer which in effect doubles the ram capacity. So 8gb is like 16gb and 16gb is like 32gb.
Click to expand...
It's important to remember than "Genius" is only their job title, and not necessarily an indication of their knowledge, experience or expertise. The Flash storage has nothing to do with the RAM capacity. The only time HDD/SSD plays a role in RAM issues is when you exceed your RAM capacity and begin having page outs. When paging (or swapping), information has to be written from RAM to your drive (page out), so that new information can be paged into RAM. This process slows performance because the drive speed is much slower than the RAM speed. The paging performance improves by using Flash storage (SSD), but it's still slower than RAM speeds.
 
8gb ram is 8gb ram.

it may perform slightly like a 16gb machine with a spinning disk due to SSD paging, but if you had 16gb ram it would be faster.


sounds like the apple rep you were talking to was bending the truth a little bit at best, and at worst being downright dishonest.
 
I doubt the staff member was trying to mislead. It sounds like she was explaining the equivalent overall experience of running past 8GB with a 2.5" HDD vs a 500MB/second flash drive without getting technical. If I had to explain to my Mom why 8GB might cause painful sluggishness in one laptop but another would be as fast in overall use as a laptop with 16GB, I'd probably use similar terms (especially if I were in a crowded, noisy retail environment). That being said, I ordered 16GB in mine. :)
 
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