Revenge Bedtime Procrastination

[jdechko]

I just read this article and thought it was pretty interesting. https://annehelen.substack.com/p/revenge-bedtime-procrastination

It seems like the big difference between just staying up late and bedtime procrastination is the reason why people stay up late. In the former, you stay up late because you are enjoying the activity. In the latter, you are staying up late to wrestle some control back over your time and don't particularly enjoy the activity at the time.

I've certainly felt more bedtime procrastination during the pandemic. I just seem to flip between the same apps and nothing seems interesting. The other thing for me is that the iOS / app focus modes don't seem to help. I just kinda shut them off or ignore the YouTube bedtime reminders.

One thing that the article doesn't really go into is how to combat this.

Have any of you dealt with this before (or are you currently dealing with it) and what have you done to try to mitigate it?

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

I saw the thread title and thought my 4 year old had created an account here. I was about to report her to the MR police.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I just read this article and thought it was pretty interesting. https://annehelen.substack.com/p/revenge-bedtime-procrastination

It seems like the big difference between just staying up late and bedtime procrastination is the reason why people stay up late. In the former, you stay up late because you are enjoying the activity. In the latter, you are staying up late to wrestle some control back over your time and don't particularly enjoy the activity at the time.

I've certainly felt more bedtime procrastination during the pandemic. I just seem to flip between the same apps and nothing seems interesting. The other thing for me is that the iOS / app focus modes don't seem to help. I just kinda shut them off or ignore the YouTube bedtime reminders.

One thing that the article doesn't really go into is how to combat this.

Have any of you dealt with this before (or are you currently dealing with it) and what have you done to try to mitigate it?

Interesting topic, and certainly a thought provoking article. I don't espouse the revenge bedtime procrastination thesis, at least not in full. However, talking to friends and coworkers, and even family, there is a clear problem with our schedules and, more importantly, with our perception of them. I also think that in the past few years the boundaries between workplace and home have blurred (hence my fear of a larger remote workforce, but that's a different topic for another day).

I think that one factor is that people are very unstructured when it comes to leisure time, and the result is that chores gets mixed with leisure and those get mixed with the occasional extra work ("let me check my email"), on top of social media-related lifestyle issues. I admit I had the same issue until I decided to completely revamp my lifestyle; instead of staying up late, now I wake up REALLY early (between 3:30am and 4:00am) on most days. I am at the gym before most of my state is even awake. I earned at least 2 hours a day, if not 3, in which I do relaxing things I want to do, in silence, and with MY time schedule. Trust me, at 4am when you just rose from the bed, the last thing you want to do is to check your work email, or watch Netflix. Heck, even checking social media feels like a chore until coffee kicks in. My morning routine is very structured, and so my weekend. That doesn't mean that I plan every minute of the weekend, far from it, but I decide when I do certain chores and when I do stuff I have to do. 90% of the times, I somewhat stick to the schedule and it frees lots of time for other stuff I want to do, while reducing brain overload as I have to make less decisions.

I don't want a life in which the cycle is wake up -> rush to work --> work --> rush home --> do chores --> binge TV and social media --> sleep --> repeat.

 

[jdechko]

Interesting topic, and certainly a thought provoking article. I don't espouse the revenge bedtime procrastination thesis, at least not in full. However, talking to friends and coworkers, and even family, there is a clear problem with our schedules and, more importantly, with our perception of them. I also think that in the past few years the boundaries between workplace and home have blurred (hence my fear of a larger remote workforce, but that's a different topic for another day).

You bring up two key areas that I don’t think this particular article addresses much, although there are other articles that do go into it more.

First, while work is a large component of the driving stressor, it’s not the only thing. Schedules have become so busy and chaotic. The day starts at 5am in our household—work, school, sports practices and/or games, dinner, homework, clean up and bedtime. There just isn’t much built-in down time in our lives, and we aren’t even as busy as some families.

Second, as you’ve mentioned, is the fact that a large portion of the workforce is remote. I’m not saying that I’d rather be in the office because my commute would add 3-4 hours to my day. But it does blur the lines between work and home. Switching focuses, even for a few minutes to do a chore, causes so much delay for me.

It seems like the solution you’ve come up with is to be more intentional with your time.

 

[yaxomoxay]

You bring up two key areas that I don’t think this particular article addresses much, although there are other articles that do go into it more.

First, while work is a large component of the driving stressor, it’s not the only thing. Schedules have become so busy and chaotic. The day starts at 5am in our household—work, school, sports practices and/or games, dinner, homework, clean up and bedtime. There just isn’t much built-in down time in our lives, and we aren’t even as busy as some families.

Second, as you’ve mentioned, is the fact that a large portion of the workforce is remote. I’m not saying that I’d rather be in the office because my commute would add 3-4 hours to my day. But it does blur the lines between work and home. Switching focuses, even for a few minutes to do a chore, causes so much delay for me.

It seems like the solution you’ve come up with is to be more intentional with your time.

Obviously there is no one-size fits all solution as everyone is different and our needs are vastly different. Someone with young kids will have different requirements than me (one kid left and the other one is a teen). However, I strongly think that intentionality trumps convenience, and quality trumps quantity.

When our first kid was younger, for a while we did the mistake of having him doing soccer, martial arts, baseball, running, tennis, music lessons and so on. Of course we felt that good parenting meant to expose him to as many things as possible. We realized after a while that a) it was BAD for our family; we barely had time to talk and actually stay together b) we were creating a jack of all trades and master of none. We then settled for martial arts and music, and nothing more. This not only freed lots of time (and money...) but it made our life much less stressful and chaotic. The result is that with lots of work he quickly became good in both martial arts and music to the point that after boot camp he admitted that the rigid but clear routine in martial arts helped him survive some of the most awful moments, and the rigid routine of band helped him with marching and uniforms. Same goes for our second kid now, he is doing a couple of things, nothing more. In addition, I do not miss the long Saturdays and Sundays at games and such... every. single. weekend. Often in the company of awful parents (very last soccer game we went to, two parents had a big fight, with punches and kicks, which then translated into the kids' game which in turn translated into a broken arm and several suspensions; we said "no mas"). I have friends with kids that claim they have no free time but their kids are in every possible sport and extracurricular activity for years and years. (*)

Granted, sometimes we fail in both intentionality and quality. Sometimes there is some extra work, or we're just too tired to do anything. It happens. But in the great order of things, working and tweaking towards some balance has greatly helped improve our lives (or at least, mine).

(*) Rant: moving to the US I also noticed that for some reason that escapes me, parents can't leave their kids alone. They are involved in every effin' activity to levels of nausea and don't let the kids to be kids among peers of the same age without their intervention. Heck even in the pinewood derby parents are overly involved (something I witnessed firsthand and is also criticized brilliantly in a Southpark episode). And worse, should something happen ("he pushed me!"), they start complaining and complaining and complaining to the other adults (all while the kid already forgot about it and is now playing).

 

[44267547]

I’m naturally somebody that has always stayed up late, but for many reasons. But I find on my ‘off days’ where I’m not at the gym/working, I actually accomplish more late at night into the early morning hours with laundry, cleaning the cars, getting caught up on work emails/reports, heck even grocery shopping.

Even if I have nothing to do, I still would procrastinate just to stay up later, primarily just to stay on that same sleep cycle.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I’m naturally somebody that has always stayed up late, but for many reasons. But I find on my ‘off days’ where I’m not at the gym/working, I actually accomplish more late at night into the early morning hours with laundry, cleaning the cars, getting caught up on work emails/reports, heck even grocery shopping.

Even if I have nothing to do, I still would procrastinate just to stay up later, primarily just to stay on that same sleep cycle.

Are you intentional about your time outside of work?

 

[44267547]

Are you intentional about your time outside of work?

I make my own work schedule, so I can work around what I need to. Although, many times if it’s ‘email related’, I’ll respond outside my normal business hours, simply because it’s just much more manageable than making phone calls during the daytime playing ‘phone tag’.

 

[jdechko]

Granted, sometimes we fail in both intentionality and quality. Sometimes there is some extra work, or we're just too tired to do anything. It happens. But in the great order of things, working and tweaking towards some balance has greatly helped improve our lives (or at least, mine).

Having kids does eat up a lot of the extra “free time” we used to have. We encouraged the kids to try different things when they were little. Now they’ve gotten older, we’ve encouraged them to narrow down their focus, which helps somewhat.

 

[Apple fanboy]

My advice on kids is try and do plenty with them when they are young. Create memories together. Go places, holidays etc. Before you know it they will be gone.

As for routines and stuff, they can work. My day looks like.
Up at 6 for a run.
Start work at 8 (home or office).
Lunchtime walk.
Finish 4:30-5:30 depending on the day.
Dinner.
Either watching TV or chores in the garden (when it’s light) until 8-8:30.
Then a couple of hours work most days.
If I then need to unwind I might watch some TV or work in some stuff on my Mac.
Bedtime varies. Some nights I’m tired and skip work and go to sleep. Others I’m still awake at 2-3am.

 

[decafjava]

I don't want a life in which the cycle is wake up -> rush to work --> work --> rush home --> do chores --> binge TV and social media --> sleep --> repeat.

Excellent posts everyone. I also am leery of the rise of remote work, as the schedule above, which is awful also, may look even worse for remote work as there the above would be worse with no separation work/private life.

 

[jdechko]

Excellent posts everyone. I also am leery of the rise of remote work, as the schedule above, which is awful also, may look even worse for remote work as there the above would be worse with no separation work/private life.

I’m pretty good about switching off work after 5. Occasionally there is the odd email after hours, but that’s the exception rather than the rule. It’s also helpful that other than for work, I have very little reason to be at my desk. And I think I’ve really grown a lot in scheduling my work day and taking time out—some of my best hours out—to exercise.
Also, the other way to look at the kids schedule is that it’s time spent with them. It may not be “my time” but it certainly isn’t “wasted” or “unproductive” time.

 

[dmr727]

I admit I had the same issue until I decided to completely revamp my lifestyle; instead of staying up late, now I wake up REALLY early (between 3:30am and 4:00am) on most days. I am at the gym before most of my state is even awake. I earned at least 2 hours a day, if not 3, in which I do relaxing things I want to do, in silence, and with MY time schedule. Trust me, at 4am when you just rose from the bed, the last thing you want to do is to check your work email, or watch Netflix.

Interesting that you mention this - I was never disciplined enough to do what you did, but having our first kid about a year ago forced it upon me. Maybe not 4am, but now that I know that I'll be up every morning around 6 whether I want to be or not, it's been easier to go to bed earlier and then create a new routine around the schedule. I have a job that doesn't have fixed hours, so in a sense it's been nice to have the additional 'structure'.

 

[eyoungren]

There is also, 'wake up early so I have me time before work'.

I have always delayed bed time, since I was a little kid. I hated school (still do) and school takes up a nice chunk of time during the day that you could actually be doing stuff YOU want to do. Work takes up even more time.

My schedule is set, but my boss fortunately is flexible so my time in and out can change depending on need. But the schedule I have set, while ultimately undesirable to me, allows me to avoid off-hour requests. My boss and those I work closely with know the schedule and since it's similar to theirs I'm not bothered when I am off the clock.

If I could work 8pm to 5am, things would be wonderful. Unfortunately, the rest of the world operates on daylight hours and night people like me are a minority. This world is run by day people and it sucks.

While I like income and I like what I do for that income, I resent and have always resented work, life, chores, people, other things getting in the way of the things I want to do. But I have to eat and I have to pay the bills. I'm not wealthy so some of it I have to accept.

My day starts at 4:45am and I go to bed around 10:30-11pm. A couple of weeks ago it was starting at 4am. I'm the chauffeur for our two kids, both going two different places each day and one with different pickup times. Work is 8am to 5pm, with the lunch hour being used to pick those kids up.

Weekends are my time. My time is not structured. It's whatever the hell I feel like doing even if that's sitting there on the internet all day. It's my time.

However, important things that need to get done still get done. Yesterday the front yard got cleaned and the car got emission checked and registered. But for the most part, work of any kind, is a drag against what I'd rather be doing. I am allergic to work.

 

[jdechko]

My day starts at 4:45am and I go to bed around 10:30-11pm. A couple of weeks ago it was starting at 4am.

Sounds kinda like our house. Do you ever find yourself staying up later just to have some “me time”?

 

[AimeeHogan]

Sounds kinda like our house. Do you ever find yourself staying up later just to have some “me time”?

I know that I most definitely stay up later for some winding downtime. I am raising a teen on the autism spectrum with a laundry list of diagnoses by myself. I need that time to wind down so that I can sleep and do it all again the next day. There are a lot of administrative tasks that go along with it that I also do before bed, like e-mails to school and providers.

 

[eyoungren]

Sounds kinda like our house. Do you ever find yourself staying up later just to have some “me time”?

That is something I used to do. Now, no. I do the inverse. I find myself getting up earlier so I have more time before work.

A lot of that has kind of gone out the window when the pandemic meant working from home. In July, I was also granted my request to stay working at home. So, I do have some control back.

I also can't stay up as late as I might like if I wanted to. My son is first year college, we only have two cars and he does not have his license yet. So, he depends on me to get him to the satellite campus every morning on time so that the shuttle can take him the rest of the way to the main campus. I then have to turn around, come home and take my daughter to school.

So, if I do not have enough sleep it can affect me and possibly my kids.

 

[jdechko]

I know that I most definitely stay up later for some winding downtime. I am raising a teen on the autism spectrum with a laundry list of diagnoses by myself. I need that time to wind down so that I can sleep and do it all again the next day. There are a lot of administrative tasks that go along with it that I also do before bed, like e-mails to school and providers.

We have a pre-teen on the spectrum as well (high-functioning) so I definitely feel you on that one.

 

[AimeeHogan]

We have a pre-teen on the spectrum as well (high-functioning) so I definitely feel you on that one.

Yes! I just got a ream of paperwork today for SS to redetermine his disability. A whole ream of it. LOL! Lots of fun! We're getting him ready to transition to adult services. He just turned 16, and with the waitlist, we were told to start the process now.

 

[rhyzome]

I just read this article and thought it was pretty interesting. https://annehelen.substack.com/p/revenge-bedtime-procrastination

It seems like the big difference between just staying up late and bedtime procrastination is the reason why people stay up late. In the former, you stay up late because you are enjoying the activity. In the latter, you are staying up late to wrestle some control back over your time and don't particularly enjoy the activity at the time.

I've certainly felt more bedtime procrastination during the pandemic. I just seem to flip between the same apps and nothing seems interesting. The other thing for me is that the iOS / app focus modes don't seem to help. I just kinda shut them off or ignore the YouTube bedtime reminders.

One thing that the article doesn't really go into is how to combat this.

Have any of you dealt with this before (or are you currently dealing with it) and what have you done to try to mitigate it?

This is a really interesting distinction.

I’ve found making a bedtime routine of pleasant activities helps.

Make some tea and listen to some music and then have some sex.

Whatever you consume before bed, try to have it planned out well before your bedtime—otherwise you’ll be spending hours before bed searching for material, whether it is the right music, or if you read, the right book, etc.

Sometimes I do duolingos, lol because it can be boring enough to put me to sleep, or a movie, but gotta stick to lighthearted ones and watch the time (dont start a 3 hour movie at 11 PM, and avoid super scary or violent or super depressing ones). Movies and shows are both tricky, because if i find something boring i wont enjoy the experience, but if I find something too interesting, im susceptible to binging it.

Also stay away from the violent video games, or really anything super suspenseful or exciting. You’ll need to walk all that tension off afterwards which isn’t great immediately before bed.

And keep off social media and all that political debate stuff, avoid fb, reddit, etc during these hours. If you are going to read (perfectly fine) make it a book or article in like the NYer or something.

And realize that it is OK to not consume anything, or to do nothing before bed. If there are thoughts in your mind write them down on a pad somewhere and forget them until tomorrow.