rMBP Questions!

[Evangeloc]

Hello everybody! after reading some threads here i decided to make an account and throw my questions into the arena

So, i have been a windows user much like the majority of us earthlings for as long as i have been using computers, apart from desktops i was always using ibm laptops, meaning thinkpads.
I never needed a powerful laptop, because i could use a desktop lol, but all this changed since i ended up studying abroad...
so now, i am forced to abandon my "desktop life" and "crappy but works laptop" and aim for a portable desktop replacement. I would normally go for a better desktop but I really need to be able to carry it around both for studying but also when I go back home.
So I started looking around for possible options, naturally I visited the Lenovo site since it is the company that bought thinkpads, but then I found out about the retina macbook, and after making comparisons I found out that a w530 speced similarly to the RMBP costs more or less the same without having the retina display :S
I know I will probably miss the ultranav and the “real” non ciclet keybord but anyway, the retina got me

So here are my questions, I understand the scaled resolutions thing, and as I have seen the loss of quality in the 1920x1200 is minimal due to the size of the pixels, but what about video games? Is the loss of quality visible? (for same screen size ratio ofcourse).

is the “retina crispness” working on the other non “best for retina” scaled resolutions? Meaning, do the image viewer utilize all the actual pixels despite the ui being the on a different scale? Or it works for the total of the OS?

Do you think that there is a possibility that in the next 4 years I might need more than 8GB ram? The 8 or 16 gb dilemma is a hard call.

Do apple computers have a good resale value?

And my final question, do you think it is worth switching to macs?

thans mates

 

[Rhyalus]

How much gaming will you do?

How portable must the device be?

If gaming is a big part, I would suggest a Clevo P150EM or similar (15.6") or P170EM (17").

The P170EM is my desktop replacement. With an SSD the i7 3840QM screams and the GTX 675MX is hard to beat. BUT, it weighs in at 8.6 lbs... the 15" is 6.8 lbs.... (15" Retina MBP is 4.5 lbs and the W530 is about 6 lbs.)

I buy several laptops each year for my employees and I know of a great place.

If you are a casual to mid-level gamer, one of the higher end MBP's would be great. There is a resale market (never understood buying used, myself) for Apple laptops. Also, whether you need more than 8GB depends on your usage..the fact that you can't upgrade is something you should consider.

My MBP is my "portable" platform for work and mild entertainment.

R

 

[swerve147]

You will see a degradation of image quality on games running on any non-retina resolution (2880x1800 for 15 in.). The degradation looks like any Windows laptop in a similar circumstance, so the Retina display doesn't make any difference in that regard from what I can tell.

That said, I still think the scaled down resolutions still look good in games, but it's a YMMV situation. On the other hand for non-games Apple's resolution scaling built into OSX is very nice. The different faux resoultions on the display all look really crisp.

As for 8 vs 16 GB RAM, most people will tell you that the extra $200 is well worth the peace of mind as the RAM is non-expandable. Whether or not is is really necessary is based on your budget and usage. To me, $200 is a lot of money, and honestly getting under the $2k mark after tax was the magic bullet for me to finally buy a MBP (retina and discrete graphics were mandatory for me). After about a week of use, based on my usage model (Internet, Mail, RSS feeds, light to moderate photo editing, streaming music and movies) 8GB has been plenty.

 

[jcepiano]

I've been running games at 2880 and it works great on my rMBP.

Once your eyes become accustomed to the crisp look of retina display friendly graphics and text, everything else looks slightly blurry no matter how you mess with the resolution. On the other hand, I've used Win 7 on bootcamp and I have plenty of programs that are not retina friendly. One becomes used to switching back and forth fortunately.

I had the 8gb vs 16gb dilemma myself. I decided 8. Even though I do use Photoshop and Final Cut X, I'm not a user that would be locked in those programs 12-16 hours a day. If you were using those as your main cash cow, yes, 16GB. Otherwise, you're fine with 8GB. Most games dont use much more than 8GB anyways so the 16GB is quite an over reach. People make a good point about how 16GB helps to future proof the machine, but it's up to you in the end. If money is no big deal, then yes do it, because the computer is not upgradable.

Resale can be good if you keep the computer in great condition. rMBP's will be popular items for the next few years.

I switched to Mac back in 2007, and I'll never look back. The functionality and elegance of these machines is a lifestyle change, not just a new computer. Once you live in the Apple eco system with MBP / IPOD/ IPHONE, you'll never want to touch a PC again. If you miss the PC, just put bootcamp on the computer with Win 7 and you'll have a better experience than you ever had before.

 

[Stetrain]

The key is that the desktop resolutions on the retina Macbook are actually running at double the dimensions that they say.

The default "Looks like 1440x900" mode is actually 2880x1800, which maps perfectly onto the screen pixels.

"Looks like 1920x1200" mode is actually 3840x2400, which has to be scaled down to fit onto the screen pixels.

So in the modes other than "Looks like 1440x900" aka "Best for Retina", there isn't a perfect mapping between software and hardware pixels, but the hardware pixel density is so high that it still looks good, probably even better than a native 1920x1200 display.


Games are a bit of a different story. If you tell a game to run in 1920x1200, it will actually run in 1920x1200, meaning it has to be upscaled to fit the hardware pixels. The good thing is that games are mostly motion graphics that aren't super sensitive to resolution. Most console games for example run at much less than 1080p and are upscaled to fit your TV, but still look pretty good.

 

[KPOM]

So here are my questions, I understand the scaled resolutions thing, and as I have seen the loss of quality in the 1920x1200 is minimal due to the size of the pixels, but what about video games? Is the loss of quality visible? (for same screen size ratio ofcourse).

is the “retina crispness” working on the other non “best for retina” scaled resolutions? Meaning, do the image viewer utilize all the actual pixels despite the ui being the on a different scale? Or it works for the total of the OS?

Do you think that there is a possibility that in the next 4 years I might need more than 8GB ram? The 8 or 16 gb dilemma is a hard call.

Do apple computers have a good resale value?

And my final question, do you think it is worth switching to macs?

thans mates

Regarding the scaled resolutions, performance will be lower since it quadruples and scales down. IOW, 1920x1080 is rendered as 3840x2060 and scaled down to 2880x1800. I wouldn't recommend any rMBP for more than light gaming, and only at the native resolution at that.

I have the 13" rMBP so 8GB is the max for me. If you have never had a PC with an SSD, 8 vs 16GB may be less of an issue since you won't notice the page-outs to disk as much. What types of programs do you run? With 8GB, generally I see page outs only when I run Windows from within a virtual machine (Parallels Desktop 8), but I don't do video editing or anything else that is RAM intensive.

Resale values are generally pretty good for Macs, but they have been worse for MacBook Airs than the classic MacBook Pro line, partly because Apple has made significant changes to the Air lineup, and partly because the Airs are not upgradable. The rMBP similarly is non-upgradable, so that may factor into future resale. If that's a concern, I'd suggest getting a refurbished unit. They are as good as new, and are sold at 85% of the normal retail price.

There is definitely a learning curve if you have never used a Mac before (the biggest things are using the command key instead of the control key, and getting used to a trackpad that actually does what it is supposed to). But I think it is worth it. It's a lot less radical a change than going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.

 

[Evangeloc]

Thanks everybody for the replies

How much gaming will you do?

How portable must the device be?

i play eve online in a religious way, used to play wow, some real time strategy games occasionaly and old school fps such as counter strike 1.6.
while i do enjoy graphicaly intensive games like modern first person shooters, i have allways prefered fast paced ones such as unreal tournament and quake.
the only modern game i really wanted to play on my old desktop was assassins creed, the others just seem to have too shallow gameplay for my old school taste ^^

portable means i should to be able to carry it around on campus 3-4 days a week, so desktop replacements and gaming pcs are out of the question for me.
but i want either a laptop with a decent gpu, or one without and a docking solution such as the vaio z or what thinkpads used to have in the past.
the problem is that docking solutions tend to suck too much, cost alot and be underpowered.
(allthought for the case of the macbook, if this manages to become a product, it might be worth it )

but untill then, ill be really happy if the macbook retina manages to run Eve online on native res with high settings and everything else on scaled resolutions and/or lower settings.
Eve online is not a graphicaly heavy game, but the pixels are just way too many
the only site i found providing information was this, but it is too vague.

I've been running games at 2880 and it works great on my rMBP.

which games mate?

Resale values are generally pretty good for Macs, but they have been worse for MacBook Airs than the classic MacBook Pro line, partly because Apple has made significant changes to the Air lineup, and partly because the Airs are not upgradable. The rMBP similarly is non-upgradable, so that may factor into future resale. If that's a concern, I'd suggest getting a refurbished unit. They are as good as new, and are sold at 85% of the normal retail price.

Buying a refub unit is not worth for me, because i get an education discount and it basicly costs the same amount of money with a brand new one.
the annoying thing is that if i could buy a mac in the us, it would still cost less than a mac in uk even with the education discount lol

I switched to Mac back in 2007, and I'll never look back. The functionality and elegance of these machines is a lifestyle change, not just a new computer. Once you live in the Apple eco system with MBP / IPOD/ IPHONE, you'll never want to touch a PC again. If you miss the PC, just put bootcamp on the computer with Win 7 and you'll have a better experience than you ever had before.

There is definitely a learning curve if you have never used a Mac before (the biggest things are using the command key instead of the control key, and getting used to a trackpad that actually does what it is supposed to). But I think it is worth it. It's a lot less radical a change than going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.

I have used a mac a couple of times, and this is why i have no hesitation that the trackpad can replace the ultranav quite well ^^
i just don't know if the total of the experience is better or worst than windows.