rMBP with IGZO

[Gman021]

So I think it's reasonable to say we should expect the rMBP to have IGZO in a small amount updates.

But since Broadwell is most likely delayed for some time, would they update the rMBP display without updating the architecture? Or would they only be done together as a "major" update?

 

[uptownnyc]

So I think it's reasonable to say we should expect the rMBP to have a 4k display whenever they update.

But since Broadwell is most likely delayed for some time, would they update the rMBP display without updating the architecture? Or would they only be done together as a "major" update?

Really doubt they'd cram a 4k display into a laptop screen. I believe it'll fully support one (maybe more) external 4k displays, but built-in? Doubt it.

 

[andeify]

A 17" rMBP with a 4K display is inevitable, not at any other screen sizes though. Could be released later this year, maybe in 2015 or even 2016.

 

[BigBeast]

So I think it's reasonable to say we should expect the rMBP to have a 4k display whenever they update.

What makes you think it's reasonable? Apple doesn't blindly follow market trends. Many sites have yet to update their content to take advantage of the retina display, so why increase the resolution even more? A 4K display would also require even more graphics prowess than is currently offered, which would decrease battery life- a much more important specification that's (thankfully) close to Apple's heart.

I think it's unreasonable to expect 4K resolution in the next few updates of the rMBP.

A 17" rMBP with a 4K display is inevitable

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Another 17" MBP is not inevitable, just as 4K is not inevitable. They're possible– but even that is up for debate.

 

[Gman021]

Really doubt they'd cram a 4k display into a laptop screen. I believe it'll fully support one (maybe more) external 4k displays, but built-in? Doubt it.

What makes you think it's reasonable? Apple doesn't blindly follow market trends. Many sites have yet to update their content to take advantage of the retina display, so why increase the resolution even more? A 4K display would also require even more graphics prowess than is currently offered, which would decrease battery life- a much more important specification that's (thankfully) close to Apple's heart.

I think it's unreasonable to expect 4K resolution in the next few updates of the rMBP.




I don't think that word means what you think it means. Another 17" MBP is not inevitable, just as 4K is not inevitable. They're possible– but even that is up for debate.

I'm dumb. I meant IGZO.

 

[andeify]

Ok, It is my belief that one would be almost inevitable. I would be very surprised if apple did not release a 17" rMBP, at some point in the not so distant future. It would probably be a 3840 x 2400 resolution screen with an aspect ratio of 16:10.

This is what I think Apple will do. Just my view!

 

[mrweirdo]

What makes you think it's reasonable? Apple doesn't blindly follow market trends. Many sites have yet to update their content to take advantage of the retina display, so why increase the resolution even more? A 4K display would also require even more graphics prowess than is currently offered, which would decrease battery life- a much more important specification that's (thankfully) close to Apple's heart.

I think it's unreasonable to expect 4K resolution in the next few updates of the rMBP.


I don't think that word means what you think it means. Another 17" MBP is not inevitable, just as 4K is not inevitable. They're possible– but even that is up for debate.

Hopefully they do indeed hold off on 4K but I suspect that might not be the case this time. Rather it makes sense or not 4K is coming in phones from manufactures like Samsung and likely other laptops with 4k displays in the same size class. Apple may choose to upgrade as taking the hit in performance since they seem to be more focused on the general consumers of late in order to avoid getting an "Ultra HD Lite" label reputation with the Retina Display from that same group.

I can see them doing it with a Broadwell update by taking advantage of that extra gained 40% GPU performance boost putting it towards 4k. Would probably result in graphics performance being a little less then the current version befitting of the unfortunate trend that's also been going on of late(ex loss of the dGPU).

It will be interesting to see how this play out.
Of course I just bought a new rMBP so I'm hoping they buck the 4k trend

 

[whitedragon101]

Ok, It is my belief that one would be almost inevitable. I would be very surprised if apple did not release a 17" rMBP, at some point in the not so distant future. It would probably be a 3840 x 2400 resolution screen with an aspect ratio of 16:10.

This is what I think Apple will do. Just my view!

I hope you are right . I have been holding a vigil for this since it was axed.

 

[thekev]

Ok, It is my belief that one would be almost inevitable. I would be very surprised if apple did not release a 17" rMBP, at some point in the not so distant future. It would probably be a 3840 x 2400 resolution screen with an aspect ratio of 16:10.

This is what I think Apple will do. Just my view!

I wouldn't call it inevitable. Apple hasn't really brought back other products post cancellation. If they had planned to do so, they would have most likely continued the 17" as it was. Note how they did that with the 15" for some time. I think the 13" cmbp is still available.

 

[Vanilla35]

Hopefully they do indeed hold off on 4K but I suspect that might not be the case this time. Rather it makes sense or not 4K is coming in phones from manufactures like Samsung and likely other laptops with 4k displays in the same size class. Apple may choose to upgrade as taking the hit in performance since they seem to be more focused on the general consumers of late in order to avoid getting an "Ultra HD Lite" label reputation with the Retina Display from that same group.

I can see them doing it with a Broadwell update by taking advantage of that extra gained 40% GPU performance boost putting it towards 4k. Would probably result in graphics performance being a little less then the current version befitting of the unfortunate trend that's also been going on of late(ex loss of the dGPU).

Samsung hasn't put 4k into a phone yet. In fact the newly announced Galaxy S5 still has a 1080p display. The first manufacturer planning on going beyond 1080p is Oppo and they are releasing their phone with a 2k display this summer.

I think it is not even close to inevitable for 4k, considering apple has never been one to make such a strategic move as was going Ultra HD, and then riding the wave even further (from 3k to 4k, etc). They're going to stick with the current resolution for a while, until 4k is mainstream, I'm guessing. Which will be another 2 years or so.

I do however agree with the assessment that this years GPU (both Broadwell iGPU, and Maxwell dGPU) will help immensely with 4k if that is the intention (doubtful - in my mind).

In regard to IGZO (the original purpose of this thread, lol) I think we'll see it for the Broadwell update, and if not absolutely the following year. It depends on how mainstream it gets. Dell added IGZO to their computers this past fall, so I would assume apple takes advantage of it sooner rather than later; considering it's battery saving ability.

I wouldn't call it inevitable. Apple hasn't really brought back other products post cancellation. If they had planned to do so, they would have most likely continued the 17" as it was. Note how they did that with the 15" for some time. I think the 13" cmbp is still available.

They just axed the 13" cMBP a few weeks ago.

Edit: Just kidding it's still on their main site. But I read an article on here saying they did, so maybe it's was a date on when they would. Either way within 2014 it's out.

 

[tmoerel]

A 17" rMBP with a 4K display is inevitable, not at any other screen sizes though. Could be released later this year, maybe in 2015 or even 2016.

Sorry but a 17" is a small niche product with low profit margins. Will not happen!

 

[thekev]

They just axed the 13" cMBP a few weeks ago.

Edit: Just kidding it's still on their main site. But I read an article on here saying they did, so maybe it's was a date on when they would. Either way within 2014 it's out.

It was an article regurgitating an analyst prediction. There is nothing official on that. They would most likely cancel it at the time of an update. The rmbp line would get an update. The cmbp would go away. Broadwell is the most likely time. That will still be a number of months if it happens this year.

 

[maflynn]

A 17" rMBP with a 4K display is inevitable

No it isn't, Apple stopped selling that laptop for a reason, and the most plausible reason is money. If they were making a profit, they're not want to kill it off.

I don't think adding a 4k display onto a 17" form factor is going to make it any more desirable to the masses. Sure there are many folks who love that form factor but they're a minority

 

[827538]

A 17" rMBP won't happen as A, it's a small market and B, most of those users (aside from a tiny vocal minority) will just use either a 15" or use a desktop.

IGZO will come this year to rMBP, couple it with the big power savings (>30% or so) with Broadwell (14nm) and Maxwell (20nm hopefully if TSMC sort their s*** out) then the three together will offer a really good boost.

Personally I plan on trading in my Late 2013 for a Late 2014 as I got mine with a student discount so with the free three year warranty the price difference to upgrade won't be that much and I'm quite a heavy gamer so the vastly improved Maxwell chip (think 50% boost to FPS) will be worth it. Also with the CPU using less power it allows the GPU more flexibility in terms of power draw and heat dissipation.
It really is the ultimate machine (this is my first Mac), I've always used high end liquid cooled gaming rigs and well, this Mac is capable of playing pretty much any game I want without a problem.

 

[Orr]

A 17" rMBP with a 4K display is inevitable, not at any other screen sizes though. Could be released later this year, maybe in 2015 or even 2016.

Dream on. A minute portion of overly vocal enthusiasts does not significant demand make.

 

[Freyqq]

17" rmbp is unlikely. The 15" rmbp has a 91 wh battery, and I've heard that FAA regulations permit up to 100 wh batteries on planes. A 17" rmbp would fit probably a 120 wh battery in order to use all the space efficiently.

 

[Gman021]

17" rmbp is unlikely. The 15" rmbp has a 91 wh battery, and I've heard that FAA regulations permit up to 100 wh batteries on planes. A 17" rmbp would fit probably a 120 wh battery in order to use all the space efficiently.

The old 17" had a battery less than 100 wh?

 

[whitedragon101]

No it isn't, Apple stopped selling that laptop for a reason, and the most plausible reason is money. If they were making a profit, they're not want to kill it off.

They sold 200,000 17' MBP the year they axed it. Thats 600million gross at $3000 per unit. Even with a tiny 10% profit margin thats still 60million profit. Its a small percentage of apples income but 60million is still nice to have.

 

[Vanilla35]

It was an article regurgitating an analyst prediction. There is nothing official on that. They would most likely cancel it at the time of an update. The rmbp line would get an update. The cmbp would go away. Broadwell is the most likely time. That will still be a number of months if it happens this year.

Yeah that's what I meant by the end of 2014

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The old 17" had a battery less than 100 wh?

I don't know exactly, but I know that when they issued the retina line they packed in a ton more battery to power that super battery draining screen -- so it would make sense

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They sold 200,000 17' MBP the year they axed it. Thats 600million gross at $3000 per unit. Even with a tiny 10% profit margin thats still 60million profit. Its a small percentage of apples income but 60million is still nice to have.

But is it worth more than they pay diversifying their product lineup that much? Economics is all about is the cost of having it worth more than the opportunity cost of not having it. They probably made more (increasing sales of 15", simplifying lineup, etc) by not having it.

 

[827538]

Yeah that's what I meant by the end of 2014

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I don't know exactly, but I know that when they issued the retina line they packed in a ton more battery to power that super battery draining screen -- so it would make sense

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But is it worth more than they pay diversifying their product lineup that much? Economics is all about is the cost of having it worth more than the opportunity cost of not having it. They probably made more (increasing sales of 15", simplifying lineup, etc) by not having it.

Well put, those 200,000 sales don't necessarily disappear. Many, if not most will use say a 15" rMBP. Couple that with economies of scale...
With Broadwell + Maxwell + IGZO they would easily get away with a <100Wh battery, not that they will build a 17" rMBP.
Personally even with being a recent Apple convert I feel their current line up is pretty dam good and not having a 17" is barely going to dent their sales.

 

[Barney63]

Well put, those 200,000 sales don't necessarily disappear. Many, if not most will use say a 15" rMBP. Couple that with economies of scale...
With Broadwell + Maxwell + IGZO they would easily get away with a >100Wh battery, not that they will build a 17" rMBP.
Personally even with being a recent Apple convert I feel their current line up is pretty dam good and not having a 17" is barely going to dent their sales.

Do you mean < ?

Barney

 

[Vanilla35]

Well put, those 200,000 sales don't necessarily disappear. Many, if not most will use say a 15" rMBP. Couple that with economies of scale...
With Broadwell + Maxwell + IGZO they would easily get away with a >100Wh battery, not that they will build a 17" rMBP.
Personally even with being a recent Apple convert I feel their current line up is pretty dam good and not having a 17" is barely going to dent their sales.

Anyone could argue for anything. I'm just stating that was a possible reason (coupled with the 17" market dwindling - overall, not just 17" MBP sales) for discontinuing it. I would say if their problem really was that they couldn't put a retina screen in the 17" without going over the 100Wh limit then maybe IGZO screens this next year will help with that, and they'll reintroduce it. You never know

 

[827538]

Sorry Barney, well spotted, I'll fix it for you .

Yeh, personally I've always disliked 17" laptops, they are beginning to become impractical at that size. The size and weight of the 15" rMBP is perfection for me, it's the reason I jumped ship to Apple and it doesn't leave me wanting more screen real estate - just change the scaling options. You should see Windows 7 without DPI scaling, I have good vision but it's painful to use.

 

[thekev]

Anyone could argue for anything. I'm just stating that was a possible reason (coupled with the 17" market dwindling - overall, not just 17" MBP sales) for discontinuing it. I would say if their problem really was that they couldn't put a retina screen in the 17" without going over the 100Wh limit then maybe IGZO screens this next year will help with that, and they'll reintroduce it. You never know

If that was their plan, don't you think they would have kept the previous form factor with the standard screen? I think they would have strung users along as they did with the mac pro if a successor was planned.

 

[Vanilla35]

If that was their plan, don't you think they would have kept the previous form factor with the standard screen? I think they would have strung users along as they did with the mac pro if a successor was planned.

No you can't introduce the 15" rMBP (superior screen, SSD, etc.) and then keep the same "old-tech" 17" flagship. It messes with the lineup. If they're going to at all, they will introduce the 17" with flagship specs again; which would be a 3k or 4k display, 32GB RAM, and maybe the 860M-870M (or next years equivalent).

I believe the Mac Pro is unrelated, because it is the only product in that category.

I also think that speaking of the 13" cMBP that is left over currently, that the only reason they keep it around right now, is to fill that gap of the price conscious consumer who wants something more than the MBA, but doesn't want the price hike to go to the 13" rMBP. That's why they've phased it out slowly and that's what many other companies do in similar situaitons. As the price of rMBP's decrease (mostly due to SSD, and partly HD+ displays), the cMBP will disappear. It's all about price for that model.