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Running Out of Ideas, Apple?
- Thread starter tjwett
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Quicksilver developers reply -
"Spotlight is gonna be awesome. QS with Spotlight is gonna be awesom..er.
Spotlight is more a technology than anything. QS can use that technology to its advantage."
"Spotlight is gonna be awesome. QS with Spotlight is gonna be awesom..er.
Spotlight is more a technology than anything. QS can use that technology to its advantage."
I have also heard complaints about the rss reading ability of Safari
NetNewsWire developers reply -
"So, Brent, what do you think of Apple putting RSS reading into Safari?
The first thing to know is that we have no intention of stopping NetNewsWire development.
The second thing is, Im not surprised. I half-expected it last year, and this year Id heard rumors (even seen some screen shots) before WWDC, so its no shock. Syndication is such great technology, it makes sense for Appleand Microsoftto add RSS reading to their systems.
The RSS reader in Safari is not a full-featured newsreader, at least from what I could tell by the demo. For instance, it doesnt appear to remember what items youve read or tell you how many unread items you have. And some of the other features that it does havesuch as RSS searchingare coming in NetNewsWire 2.0.
So... even with Safaris RSS reader, there is still a need for newsreaders that do more. (Much more.)
What I like about this announcement is that it popularizes syndication. Despite its fast growth, theres still a huge education job to do. The average Mac user doesnt know about the technology yet, but putting it in Safari means they will know about it, and it gives the technology a kind of validation, an Apple seal of approval, for the people who are slower to look at new technologies.
It also may mean that Apple will evangelize RSS to publications that havent yet adopted it. Which is great: its not something we have much time for, and when CNN hears from Apple it carries a bit more weight than when they hear from Ranchero Software.
This could trigger a shake-out in the Mac OS X newsreaders market. There are a dozen or so readers right now, but by this time next year there may be Safari and just a few others. (NetNewsWire will be one of them.)"
So that leaves the Konfabulator who are not happy... and rightfully so. They were making money on a product and now another big player has come into the game. What can you do?
NetNewsWire developers reply -
"So, Brent, what do you think of Apple putting RSS reading into Safari?
The first thing to know is that we have no intention of stopping NetNewsWire development.
The second thing is, Im not surprised. I half-expected it last year, and this year Id heard rumors (even seen some screen shots) before WWDC, so its no shock. Syndication is such great technology, it makes sense for Appleand Microsoftto add RSS reading to their systems.
The RSS reader in Safari is not a full-featured newsreader, at least from what I could tell by the demo. For instance, it doesnt appear to remember what items youve read or tell you how many unread items you have. And some of the other features that it does havesuch as RSS searchingare coming in NetNewsWire 2.0.
So... even with Safaris RSS reader, there is still a need for newsreaders that do more. (Much more.)
What I like about this announcement is that it popularizes syndication. Despite its fast growth, theres still a huge education job to do. The average Mac user doesnt know about the technology yet, but putting it in Safari means they will know about it, and it gives the technology a kind of validation, an Apple seal of approval, for the people who are slower to look at new technologies.
It also may mean that Apple will evangelize RSS to publications that havent yet adopted it. Which is great: its not something we have much time for, and when CNN hears from Apple it carries a bit more weight than when they hear from Ranchero Software.
This could trigger a shake-out in the Mac OS X newsreaders market. There are a dozen or so readers right now, but by this time next year there may be Safari and just a few others. (NetNewsWire will be one of them.)"
So that leaves the Konfabulator who are not happy... and rightfully so. They were making money on a product and now another big player has come into the game. What can you do?
Wasn't there this same sort of issue when Sherlock came out and the Sherlock vs. Watson debate. Nothing new under the sun.
Well I'm glad to hear that people are not throwing in the towel, yet.
Still, is adding an Apple-branded ripoff of a javascript accessory and a journaled search tool worthy of an Apple OS? What happened to Apple innovating, leading the way? Now they just steal. It's so lame it makes me sick. Slapping a half-assed RRS reader into Safari does nothing for me either. Don't worry, they'll probably just steal some features from OmniWeb for a future Safari "upgrade". If they insist on building on the past then why don't they do something useful like integrating iCal, AddressBook, and Mail, into a single app that is actually of any use beyond watching the pretty icon bounce in the Dock? The whole thing stinks of MS.
Still, is adding an Apple-branded ripoff of a javascript accessory and a journaled search tool worthy of an Apple OS? What happened to Apple innovating, leading the way? Now they just steal. It's so lame it makes me sick. Slapping a half-assed RRS reader into Safari does nothing for me either. Don't worry, they'll probably just steal some features from OmniWeb for a future Safari "upgrade". If they insist on building on the past then why don't they do something useful like integrating iCal, AddressBook, and Mail, into a single app that is actually of any use beyond watching the pretty icon bounce in the Dock? The whole thing stinks of MS.
I think Spotlight is very worthy.
I'm not convinced by dashboard yet, but then again I haven't tried it.
You also have to realize that this is a PREVIEW build... and Steve stressed that at the end of the keynote for a reason. Things are going to change, and probably for the better.
I'm really surprised you think iCal, AddressBook, and Mail have no use other then bouncing in the dock...
I'm not convinced by dashboard yet, but then again I haven't tried it.
You also have to realize that this is a PREVIEW build... and Steve stressed that at the end of the keynote for a reason. Things are going to change, and probably for the better.
I'm really surprised you think iCal, AddressBook, and Mail have no use other then bouncing in the dock...
This thread makes me laugh
How many threads do we see where people post something along the lines of "Why can't Safari have (insert feature from another browser) just like (other browser) has? If it had that I would use it" or "I wish the Finder supported features that I currently have to install Konfabulator (or whatever) to get". Now, when they do they get st for it. It just kills me.
And really, it's not like those are the only 2 new features. Sure, we'd all like to see a new file system, etc but I guess you can't make all people happy all the time.
How many threads do we see where people post something along the lines of "Why can't Safari have (insert feature from another browser) just like (other browser) has? If it had that I would use it" or "I wish the Finder supported features that I currently have to install Konfabulator (or whatever) to get". Now, when they do they get st for it. It just kills me.
And really, it's not like those are the only 2 new features. Sure, we'd all like to see a new file system, etc but I guess you can't make all people happy all the time.
I agree that Tiger isn't getting me all to excited yet, but I would ask this...Are you saying that if some other developer has a great idea, Apple should simply ignore it because someone else had it first? What's wrong wtih Apple incorporating some ideas from others with its own and making a truly great--insanely great--product?
I think the Mac community's problem with Microsoft is that it steals ideas and can't even implement them properly.
Remember, Macintosh itself was born from Apple "stealing" stuff from XEROX PARC. XEROX, however, has admitted that it would have never taken the technology to the heights that Apple did.
Stealing can be ok if you can improve what you borrow. Microsoft just screws it up instead.
That said, I don't think these are the most brilliant developments ever. Dashboard could be ok, but it's nothing that great. I'm kind of looking forward to the RSS reader built right into Safari, though. I think that's an appropriate level of integration. I don't quite understand the point of Spotlight, but I don't particularly like it.
Oh well, there's still nearly a year...We'll see how the finished product is. I think that Tiger might be a lot more attractive when it's done.
I think the Mac community's problem with Microsoft is that it steals ideas and can't even implement them properly.
Remember, Macintosh itself was born from Apple "stealing" stuff from XEROX PARC. XEROX, however, has admitted that it would have never taken the technology to the heights that Apple did.
Stealing can be ok if you can improve what you borrow. Microsoft just screws it up instead.
That said, I don't think these are the most brilliant developments ever. Dashboard could be ok, but it's nothing that great. I'm kind of looking forward to the RSS reader built right into Safari, though. I think that's an appropriate level of integration. I don't quite understand the point of Spotlight, but I don't particularly like it.
Oh well, there's still nearly a year...We'll see how the finished product is. I think that Tiger might be a lot more attractive when it's done.
themadchemist said:
nothing wrong, but it would be nice, fair and cool if the people that came up with the ideas/products were credited and rewarded for them
Don't panic said:
indeed. a blatant ripoff is nothing to be proud of. i guess i've just always considered Apple inventors. these things just seem like a step in the wrong direction to me. with each revision we get more graphics on the screen and our computers feel slower and slower. this just isn't necessary. i run BeOS, which has features and a filesystem that go far beyond OS X's capabilities, on a 350mhz machine with 64MB RAM and a 16MB video card. i can do things with realtime audio and video on it that would bring even a G5 to a screeching halt. part of the reason is the bulkiness and age of OS X's core and the other 90% of it is the GUI, which just continues to get more and more over-the-top.
Don't panic said:
I agree, but how would you do it? Have Steve just mention them during the keynote? Not enough. Hire them to develop for Apple? Maybe, but they already have developers. How would you quantify the value that their idea added to the sales of the new OS to properly reward them.
Again, I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know how it would be done.
DVDSP said:
the good old fashioned corporate takeover. Apple could do the right thing and PAY FOR IT. any small developer in the world would be absolutely thrilled to have their product bought out by Apple. even if they lose that technology, you know how good that looks on the old resume? now all Konfabulator could do is try to sue Apple. good luck. in this age of Microsoft patenting the "double-click" i guess anything is fair game. i think it's a low blow.
themadchemist said:
Apple never stole from xerox. They paid for a chance to look at their stuff. Borrowing some ideas, sure, but thats different than stealing. xerox new exactly what they were doing. It should also be pointed out that xerox's work in progress lacked basic things like the desktop metaphore that makes a mac a mac.
That aside, I see no problem with apple stealing ideas. If anyone here really thinks apple thought of every single feature ever used by the computer industry, they are flat out wrong and delusional. Apple borrows and steals as necessary, so does everyone else. Some also innovate, which apple will do, even MS does sometimes. Apple tends to do more quick innovation, it has to to survive.
As far as developers getting upset with apple taking their ideas, frankly, if it was something so unique, they could have gotten soem protections for the idea, like patents and what not. if it wasn't unique enough for that, then they have nothing to cry about.
Its been pointed out on other sites also that konfabulator is actually just an update of an old system 6 technology. So its not like they were doing anything that unique anyway. A good implementation, sure, but if thats all they got, they didn't really have anything to begin with. Why should apple buy them out if they don't gain any intellectual property. Why should they reward them for a good implementation of an idea that they are free to use anyway (and that arguably apple came up with first anyway). Unless apple stole copywrited code or patented ideas, they did nothing wrong. I'm all for the little guy, but I just don't see the contraversy here really.
themadchemist said:What's wrong wtih Apple incorporating some ideas from others with its own and making a truly great--insanely great--product?
From a user standpoint - nothing, in fact yes it does bode well for the end-user.. BUT its more of an ethics thing. Apple should be encouraging third party/shareware/freeware developers, not waiting for them to come up with a profitable idea and stealing it.
Apple should either make the programmer of Konfab. a respected employee of the Apple OSX programming monkeys
OR pay a big fat cheque to the programmer of Konfab. with a free G5, 30" monitor and a big letter of apology
good points from both sides of the argument here. but one thing is still present which is the most troubling; one of the new features that Apple is bragging about is a technology originally created on System 6 and based on javascript. and if they don't at least come up with a very user friendly development kit for Widgets then it will be as much of a waste as the Audio/MIDI setup app.
themadchemist said:
Get the facts right, ace. Like another post said, Apple never "stole" anything - they paid for the right to see it, and Xerox got stock options which gave 'em a lot of money once Macintosh became successful.
I saw dashboard and immediately though Konfabulator. I don't use iChat AV, I don't see anything fabulous yet either, so unless they start adding really cool things like they always promise, I don't see myself shelling out another $130. At this stage, it would be a waste of money for me, personally.
Sorry, I don't see that this time.
I used Konfabulator for some time... and stopped using it... so Dashboard will be in the non-used sector for me... but indeed its a pity that they go that way, and not just buy a version from konfabulator to add into the new OS...
the only thing why I want this Tiger is for the 64 bit reason... to see how it add up to the 64 bit needs of my G5 (ok I know there are more G3/G4 users out there... but for me I'd like to see my G5 speed up by this update...)
grts
Jo
the only thing why I want this Tiger is for the 64 bit reason... to see how it add up to the 64 bit needs of my G5 (ok I know there are more G3/G4 users out there... but for me I'd like to see my G5 speed up by this update...)
grts
Jo
tjwett said:
Who needs the effect of waves when an address books open? Is that not loosing focus?
There was a good point made in the discussion on the new displays that they are targeted professional users.
It seems Apple is making way in the consumer market with iPod, Airport Express, digital hub paradigm, while at the same time trying to cater for their professional users.
Maybe they should acknowledge these two as disparate markets and develop specific products for each - maybe even in separate brands. The wave effect doesn't fit anywhere IMO.
On the consumer path I would like to see development along these lines: A video capable iPod. ITMS allready has music videos. I'll bet this could open up a whole new market with a portable video player. Broadband is becoming increasingly common and has the capacity for this. Users will get experience with downloading digital content with songs and music videos while broadband gains momentum and capacity for full length movies. By that time Apple will have the infrastructure ready for this with portable players, wi-fi, on-line shop for purchasing the movies etc. etc.
What should happen on the professional side of Apple products?