Safari 4 and wordpress blogging software (bug)

[Habakuk]

"Safari is no different"

(As I've mentioned already in the 1200+ postings news thread) the online editor of the most popular blogging hoster wordpress.com won't let insert images and links in the WYSIWYG mode.

I've posted the problem to wordpress' support forum and there is a not real satisfying response from the staff. Please have a look at it:

http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic/safari-4-beta-editor-hickups

from
mark
Wordpress.com Support
Feb 26, 2009, 10:35 AM (CET)

Until it is released as Final we will not be looking too hard at fixing any issues.
We did not address issues on IE7 until final, do not address issues on Firefox or Opera. Safari is no different - on final we will spend time on it, until then you will have to stay with whatever happens. It's beta, bugs and other 'interesting effects' are to be expected.

Workarounds:

• Downgrade to Safari 3.2.1 - There is an option in the dmg package you've downloaded with the Safari 4 Beta release. (Not an option for me. The advantages of Safari 4 prevail by far.)
• Use another Browser. It worked with an old Opera install that I've found on my HD (never used it before and I even don't know how it made it on my HD, I am not kidding). I've upgraded to newsworthy Opera version 9.63 within seconds (no reboot necessary). It works too with the wordpress visual editor. But: It's slow as hell (compared to S4B), you can't resize the editor window, it will not show wordpress' bold and italic emphasis and lots of other issues... Short: It's crap but I am using it now just for editing my blogs until the problem vanishes because somebody cares about. Maybe I'll try Chrome (has somebody any experiences with this browser on Leopard and this editor?) [edit: My fault, Chrome is not available for Mac OS X, sorry]
• Use the wordpress' online HTML editor (it's a tab above the editor). It's... well... a HTML editor with restricted features but it works well with Safari 4 Beta. I am using it as well for the time being but the workflow is even slower than with Opera.
• Migrate your blog to Google or somewhere else. (MacRumors?) Personally I have no experiences with that at all. (Anyone?) You will lose your wordpress URL.

I've added a full size screenshot of the problematic situation. No more input possible. Here you can only go back and you will lose any changes that you've made before you hit on the chain symbol.

What do you think should I answer in their support forum, folks?

Something like: "Until now I often recommended wordpress as one of the best online blogging softwares and hosters for the Mac OS X platform. Thank you very much for your appreciated service.

Safari 4 -- even beta -- is acknowledged as the best browser for the time being that fulfills all standards 100 %. You are completely right, don't look too hard at fixing any issues. Treat it like Internet Explorer and the other crap. I do understand you very well." ;-)

Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Thanks for reading.

 

[miles01110]

Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Thanks for reading.

Uh, WordPress support said it perfectly: Until it's final, why should they bother? And smugly thanking them for use of their (free) service with the implication that you'll find something better and as if they're going to care that you are having problems with a browser that's in beta is just retarded.

Use Firefox or Safari 3 until Safari 4 goes final, then complain if you're still having issues. They said they would look at the issues when the browser hits 1.0, and in my experience the WordPress developers are pretty timely.

Either that or actually take the time to learn how to insert images with tags.

This is pretty much the same as every other "Safari 4 beta doesn't work, WTF!!!!" post on this board for the past couple days. Its a BETA. Figure it out.

 

[Habakuk]

Uh, WordPress support said it perfectly: Until it's final, why should they bother?

Thank you very much for repeating their argument, miles10001. Good point.

And smugly thanking them

Smugly? It was intended as openly, frankly. Sorry if that sounds mistakeable. English is not my first language. How could I formulate that better?

for use of their (free)

Yes it's free. I missed to point that out. Thank you again, miles. By the way, reading and watching my blog is free too. And MacRumors too.

service with the implication that you'll find something better and as if they're going to care that you are having problems with a browser that's in beta is just retarded.

I couldn't understand that completely. I'll meet a native speaker later who will help. Sorry.

Use Firefox or Safari 3 until Safari 4 goes final,

Again: I thought I've mentioned something like that in my workaround list posted in OP. But it's good to know that you have found the same option.

then

When? June 2009?

complain if you're still having issues.

My posting was primary intended as a suggestion of workarounds and not as a complain. I didn't complain in the wordpress forum too. And it's not only me who has issues.

They said they would look at the issues when the browser hits 1.0,

I thought it would be Safari 4?!

and in my experience the WordPress developers are pretty timely.

I've heard in the meantime that there were issues with Safari and wordpress before. Sure. I understand perfectly that they care primarily about the most popular browsers.

Either that or actually take the time to learn how to insert images with tags.

Again. I tried to explain in my OP that I am doing exactly this right now. I should improve my English before I start whining again. Fortunately I have some experiences in HTML editing.

This is pretty much the same as every other "Safari 4 beta doesn't work, WTF!!!!" post on this board for the past couple days.

No. It's not the same because I didn't write "WTF!!!" at any place. You did.

Its a BETA. Figure it out.

I know. I hate to repeat myself but...

Safari 4 -- even beta --

I didn't want to whine or complain but giving some advice for others who are in the same situation. Sorry for any misunderstandings. I've even put a smiley after the "Treat it like Internet Explorer and the other crap"-sentence. It wasn't intended to sound harsh.

Thanks again miles00000 for repeating everything. Helped a lot. Really.

 

[morsidk]

It's stille beta

I gotta say I am with miles on this one, no developer in their right mind would spend hours debugging a beta browser.

With regards to S4, it's pretty buggy! On my brand spanking new 17" macbook pro it crashes before even displaying a window, plus makes mail crash with it. On my Powerbook G4 it works somewhat, but still flawed. Wordpress are usually very speedy, when it comes to updating. As a webmaster myself I wouldn't try fxing problems occurring in beta software , it's sorta implied that the problem is in the browser.

 

[Habakuk]

I gotta say I am with miles on this one, no developer in their right mind would spend hours debugging a beta browser.

As I've heard the debugging and developer features of Safari 4 should be superb (I am not a developer). The "Develop - Open Page With..." menue item has even found my Opera install of which even I knew nothing ;-)

With regards to S4, it's pretty buggy! ...

The wordpress bug is the only one I've found so far after hours of heavy browsing with Safari 4 Beta even on dubious sites. Here it seems to be rock stable and fast like no browser before. MacBook Pro 6/2007 with all updates.

Wordpress are usually very speedy, when it comes to updating.

Good to know. Maybe they can resolve the problem a bit earlier. I'll wait some days or weeks.

As a webmaster myself I wouldn't try fxing problems occurring in beta software,

I would try it. Maybe because I know the advantages of Safari. I would love any experience with it.

it's sorta implied that the problem is in the browser.

Interesting. Thank you for your precious input, morsidk. I would appreciate it if you could explain that a bit more specific.

 

[Consultant]

Interesting. Thank you for your precious input, morsidk. I would appreciate it if you could explain that a bit more specific.

Are you going to fix it? If not does it matter if it's the xyz function is broken or if the coreNerdinessFunction is overflowing?

Just submit the bug via the
Report Bugs to Apple...
from the menu

 

[Habakuk]

Are you going to fix it?

Sure Next I'll try something. There is a terminal command (I hope I'll find it again) that turns off the darken transition effect (I love that effect) p. e. when you klick on a thumbnail in "Top Sites". Maybe the wordpress bug has something to do with it... (At least it happens when the screen darkens and grays out.)

If not does it matter if it's the xyz function is broken or if the coreNerdinessFunction is overflowing?

Uhm... It is better to waste some minutes or hours with trying and exploring something (maybe finding a better workaround) than wasting even more time with incapable workarounds. So I appreciate any helpful input in this case. Thanks again in advance.

First we'll have to try something then we may say: Yes we can.

Just submit the bug via the
Report Bugs to Apple...
from the menu

That was the very first thing that I have done. Thank you, Consultant.

 

[miles01110]

I couldn't care less if you're an English speaker or not; no matter what language you're native in, your complaints have no merit.

I read your post and I see the following:

1. You find an incompatibility with a beta browser, and ask for a resolution from the developer. Fine.

2. Developer responds that they have a general policy of not bothering to fix bugs while browsers are in beta, replicating the policy of almost every other company that develops any sort of web application.

3. In addition, developer directs you to viable workarounds that, as far as I can tell, you have no good reason for not taking advantage of other than "you don't want to."

4. You consider posting in their support forum that WordPress should somehow be accountable for not supporting a beta version of Safari.

5. You offer a subjective statement:

Safari 4 -- even beta -- is acknowledged as the best browser for the time being that fulfills all standards 100 %.

...as a justification for your issue, and then

6. Look for pity from the MacRumors community.

You have the information you need to fix your problem, I don't understand why you're not acting on it. If you want to sit on your hands and keep using Safari 4 Beta and it's giving you trouble, it only ends up hurting you in the end.

 

[Habakuk]

I couldn't care less if you're an English speaker or not; no matter what language you're native in, your complaints have no merit.

Very friendly! You've found the most important part of my response. Congrats! Very helpful!

BTW: Where do you find ANY complaint in my OP?! Please quote.

I wrote: "...there is a not real satisfying response from the staff" -- I wouldn't call that complaint. And I wouldn't point that out at first place like you do.

You still owe me an explanation what sounds "smugly" in these sentences: "Until now I often recommended wordpress as one of the best online blogging softwares and hosters for the Mac OS X platform. Thank you very much for your appreciated service."

Otherwise I am going to believe that I don't understand English any more.

I read your post

Really, 000000?! But I will stop now discussing with you because I've met the native speaker and she told me that your response is an impudence. You wrote about me: "...is just retarded". Look, I didn't want to quarrel here with MR members. I never do that. I don't feel insulted, no panic, but it's just a waste of everyone's time, isn't it?

My only aim is to find a better workaround without downgrading Safari to 3.2.1.

Only one word (I've got another minute for you):

and I see the following:

You do nothing but offering subjective statements, repeating everything, provocating misunderstandings, and trying to insult other MR members :-(

almost every other company

I am not interested in any other company. I am occupied enough with Apple and Wordpress in this case.

3. In addition, developer directs you to viable workarounds that, as far as I can tell, you have no good reason for not taking advantage of other than "you don't want to."

I don't want to self-praise but it was me who worked out the workaround list. Please look in the history. The "developer's viable" tipps were rather thin: "...you will have to stay with whatever happens."

4. You consider posting in their support forum that WordPress should somehow be accountable for not supporting a beta version of Safari.

Nö. I consider to thank them again for acknowledging the bug and for doing nothing. "No we cannot" is always great!

5. You offer a subjective statement:

[Habakuk wrote: "Safari 4 -- even beta -- is acknowledged as the best browser for the time being that fulfills all standards 100 %."]

If you want I am going to look up for you the links that Safari 4 beta has passed the Acid3 test as the very first browser. See the articles here at MR, arsTechnica, cnet and elsewhere.

Sorry there were two words ;-)

 

[miles01110]

I wrote: "...there is a not real satisfying response from the staff" -- I wouldn't call that complaint. And I wouldn't point that out at first place like you do.

Except you mean "satisfying" in this case to be "what you want" and not what can reasonably expected. Essentially you are making a biased commentary because you aren't getting what you want.

You still owe me an explanation what sounds "smugly" in these sentences: "Until now I often recommended wordpress as one of the best online blogging softwares and hosters for the Mac OS X platform. Thank you very much for your appreciated service."

It is smug because you say "Until now..." In context, this means that "Until I (you) found this bug in a software beta (definition: not final) I (you) regarded Wordpress as one of the best..." Why should performance in a beta version mean anything? If it's a bug in the public release, that's when you start complaining to WordPress.

Otherwise I am going to believe that I don't understand English any more.

You're certainly making a strong case.

My only aim is to find a better workaround without downgrading Safari to 3.2.1.

Really? What did you use before Safari 4? Why was it bad? Have you tried Firefox? Why don't you use an offline HTML editor and just view the .html file in Safari 3.x?

I am not interested in any other company. I am occupied enough with Apple and Wordpress in this case.

Your problem as stated (by you) has already been explained by WordPress. WordPress is not concerned with compatability with Safari 4 because it is a beta. When you ask "What do you think should I answer in their support forum, folks?" I think you should answer something along the lines of "Thank you for responding to my bug report. I understand that in the final version of Safari 4 that this bug will be addressed (if it still exists)."

I don't want to self-praise but it was me who worked out the workaround list. Please look in the history. The "developer's viable" tipps were rather thin: "...you will have to stay with whatever happens."

Admittedly I missed this the first time. My mistake. See above where I pose some questions to you about what it is about Safari 3.x that bothers you to the extent that it's "not an option."

Nö. I consider to thank them again for acknowledging the bug and for doing nothing. "No we cannot" is always great!

Except they never said this. They said they will not, at least not until the public release. Standard operating procedure. If you really want it fixed, learn the code and do it yourself. Otherwise wait until 1.0.

If you want I am going to look up for you the links that Safari 4 beta has passed the Acid3 test as the very first browser. See the articles here at MR, arsTechnica, cnet and elsewhere.

I wouldn't bother. Safari's results in the Acid3 test aren't going to resolve your WordPress bug any more than complaining about it will.

 

[Habakuk]

^ You may insist as long as you want but I didn't complain! It was just a bug report and a list with possible workarounds for the time being. Nothing more and nothing less. Don't you feel that you are a bit too sensible, do you?

Just a quick update:

Next I'll try something. There is a terminal command (I hope I'll find it again) that turns off the darken transition effect (I love that effect) p. e. when you klick on a thumbnail in "Top Sites". Maybe the wordpress bug has something to do with it... (At least it happens when the screen darkens and grays out.)

I tried it and this didn't solve the problem. Not so important but somebody in the wordpress.org forum said uncontradicted that TinyMce should be the culprit: "The problem is caused by TinyMce as you can see on their website: TinyMce." It seems to be true -- the demo editor at this site shows the same behaviour like the wordpress.com editor.

In the meantime I downloaded Opera 10 Alpha for Intel Macs. It works fine so far with the wordpress editor, it's stable and a bit faster than 9.63 final (but emphasis tags -- bold, italic -- are still not displayed correctly and other things) but not as fast as Safari 4 Beta.

Edit: I tried to post an answer at http://en.forums.wordpress.com but it seems that the forum doesn't work at all any more with Safari AND opera. I cannot understand that because I did NOT want to complain there ;-)

 

[danb77]

This bugs has now been fixed in the latest webkit nightly!

So those of you who hassled word-press developers ought to apologise - it was a safari bug!

To install it, go to webkit.org and download the latest nightly version.

Beta safari + nightly webkit is the way forward... ;-)

 

[Habakuk]

Four Days!
Problem resolved​

You are the hero, danb77!​

This bugs has now been fixed in the latest webkit nightly! So those of you who hassled word-press developers ought to apologise - it was a safari bug! To install it, go to webkit.org and download the latest nightly version. Beta safari + nightly webkit is the way forward... ;-)

Two minutes ago I downloaded
http://builds.nightly.webkit.org/files/trunk/mac/WebKit-SVN-r41279.dmg

Closed Safari (I even don't know if that was necessary) and hit the file in the dmg -- voilà! After a quick test the wordpress.com WYSIWYG editor works with Safari 4 Nightly Webkit Edition (like before with Safari 3.2.1; Leopard) and the sunshine came through outside at the very same moment (no kidding).

Thank you very much!​

...on behalf of all wordpress users who can really enjoy now this fine blogging service fully featured together with superfast and stable Safari 4! Just for the case: Is it possible to uninstall such a "Nightly Webkit" (never heard of it before) and go back to the original Safari 4 Beta? Are there any known disadvantages? (You know -- after twenty years of Windows or so I am a bit sceptical... Forgive me please.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit

(As far as I am concerned -- I never hassled anybody. In my honest opinion the answer of the wordpress staff was bit "thin" and "not really satisfying". Your answer was brilliant. You should hear me when I am really complaining and hassling... ) Everything seems to be fine now with wordpress (as it was before) and I can recommend it again without any doubts. Sorry for any possible misunderstandings (maybe provocated by others) here at MacRumors. Sorry for my bad English. The first sunshine since weeks with a taste of spring.

Thanks, Apple and Nightly Webkit Team!
Four days. That was fast!

In short:
Alles bleibt besser.
Everything remains better.​

Edit: http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/examples/full.php works as well Wordpress.com forum works again too. That javascript WYSIWYG editor is really helpful and stable with very small hickups (easy workarounds). Try the demo at that site if you don't have a wordpress account (however the wordpress.com version is not fully featured like the demo). Wouldn't such an editor be great for vBulletin (forum software that runs MacRumors p. e.) too?!

 

[danb77]

Just for the case: Is it possible to uninstall such a "Nightly Webkit" (never heard of it before) and go back to the original Safari 4 Beta? Are there any known disadvantages?

Hi there,
Glad to be of help.

When you install the webkit beta there should now be two Safari icons in your Apps folder, one entitled Safari and a second golden compass entitled Webkit.

Launching Webkit will open a Safari browser which uses the webkit.org engine, launching Safari should open Safari with the default Safari Beta 4 engine.

So, to uninstall Webkit just delete the Webkit icon from your Apps folder.

To clarify, in order to use the updated Webkit engine, you need to click on the golden Webkit icon in Apps, the Safari icon should just launch plain old(!) beta 4.



It is impressive how quickly this was fixed - I wonder who high up in Apple is using WordPress? ;-p

 

[Habakuk]

Thanks for clarifying that, danb77. Actually you can have both Safari Betas run at the same time.

Works perfect so far.

 

[danb77]

Thanks for clarifying that, danb77. Actually you can have both Safari Betas run at the same time.

Works perfect so far.

No problem! Nice blog by the way.

PS Follow the instructions in this link!
http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/how-to-turn-off-snap-preview-on-wordpress-blogs/

 

[Habakuk]

No problem! Nice blog by the way.

Thanks. You're welcome. Nice phone, nice browser... I am afraid becoming a fanboy

PS Follow the instructions in this link!
http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/how-to-turn-off-snap-preview-on-wordpress-blogs/

Done. I was never sure about that. It's activated by default. The Wikipedia-hyperlinks were displayed neatly in the little snap-preview-windows (you could read the text immediately w/o opening another tab/browser window) but all together it disturbes too much (sometimes it sticks and doesn't go away quickly), has longer loading times than Opera and Safari together and it is rather unusual. It worked even with small Safari on iPotch (and here it disturbed mostly). You are completely right, thanks again, danb77. I switched snap preview off right now.

It is impressive how quickly this was fixed.

Yes. Indeed. I couldn't even start complaining, really.

I wonder who high up in Apple is using WordPress? ;-p

Isn't your friendly Mr. Walt Mossberg himself using (or featuring) WordPress?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mossberg
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg

Image: Wikipedia​

http://voices.allthingsd.com/category/walt-mossberg/
"Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher agree–after all, they chose WordPress to power All Things Digital." (I must confess that this was the reason why I've choosen WordPress at first.)