Safari vs standards

[elenaher@wanado]

Hello,

Everybody knows that safari has problems with many standards like css 2. But apple seems not worried by that. I have the impression that apple doesn't try to solve these issues. That's why i ask : Will safari be one day able to support these standards like IE ? Is there a pb with the "core" of the browser ? his engine ?
Is there a problem with the mac himself ( because if i remember, IE for mac has also many pbs, more than IE for windows ) ?
Thanks first

@+

 

[davecuse]

I'm not sure where you got the impression the IE was standards compliant, it's not. Safari on the other hand does a very good job following the standards set forth by the W3, as does Konqueror, which Safari is based on.

Microsoft has no plans to update it's current users to a standards compliant browser, in order to get that a user would need to upgrade to Longhorn when it is finally released a few years down the road. The only way to get something that will comply with standards in a Windows environment would be to download a new browser, such as FireFox.

Edit: Here's a link to CSS Discuss, regarding CSS flaws in browsers
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BrowserBug

Notice that they are all IE flaws.

 

[Timelessblur]

I'm not sure where you got the impression the IE was standards compliant, it's not. Safari on the other hand does a very good job following the standards set forth by the W3, as does Konqueror, which Safari is based on.

Microsoft has no plans to update it's current users to a standards compliant browser, in order to get that a user would need to upgrade to Longhorn when it is finally released a few years down the road. The only way to get something that will comply with standards in a Windows environment would be to download a new browser, such as FireFox.

Edit: Here's a link to CSS Discuss, regarding CSS flaws in browsers
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BrowserBug

Notice that they are all IE flaws.

Umm MS is planing on releasing a new verson of IE withing a year. There is an update to IE in SP2

 

[mcarvin]

Umm MS is planing on releasing a new verson of IE withing a year. There is an update to IE in SP2

That update doesn't really address the MSHTML engine per se, but adds pop-up blocking and a few other things. Not really earth-shattering for either consumers or web builders. Likewise, don't hold your breath waiting for a pre-Longhorn IE7. Just because the IE team set up a blog and wiki asking for suggestions doesn't mean they're going to update IE. MS has gone to great lengths to make it known that to get the next major rev to IE, you'll have to buy Longhorn.

I'm also curious as to what significant issues Safari has with CSS2. As far as I've seen, it's CSS support is second only to the Gecko engine, which is to be expected since KHTML and Gecko are pretty close cousins.

Yeah, IE/Win could almost be considered the "new Netscape 4" in some ways. Just imagine if IE supported such declarations as insert-before

 

[scem0]

Will safari be one day able to support these standards like IE ?

 

[XboxEvolved]

It's interesting because IE as I was explained will "guess" what people mean with HTML so more things can be compliant with it.

Safari reminds me a lot of Firefox, they are both basically the same thing in the way they work and are setup other then Safari only stretches to the width of the site unless you specify otherwise while Firefox doesnt. Some sites dont load perfectly with Firefox, but hopefully these issues will be solved more and more as things go along. I have not been a Mac user for more then nine months but I definately love Safari. As I understand it though internet used to suck really really bad on the Mac 4-5 years ago...

 

[Benjamin]

scem0-

that is the best responce for this thread, kudos.

 

[beefcake]

The only thing that really bugs me about CSS compliance on both IE and Safari (IE has plenty unique problems, but I've pretty much given up) is the height vs. min/max-height property. It seems like IE sees height as min-height whereas safari completely ignores min-height altogether.

 

[Daveman Deluxe]

Let me put it this way. If the W3C stated that to properly render webpages, electricity must flow from negative to positive, Microsoft would make IE only render webpages in which electricity flows from positive to negative.

I can't take credit from that, but I can't remember where I saw it.

 

[Timelessblur]

Well some of the standard out there Safria nor firefox will every be able to fully support. IE has pretty much become a standard to code for in it self. But that just the limition of a Netscape based broswer and the fact that IE based browers just out number with a huge ratio.

Not like that a big deal since very few sites out there are made mainly for IE and have problems iwth netscaped based and those website creators I will call lazy and well crappy type of webmaster.

I use firefox and only really use IE when I the site is giving me trouble in firefox or when I have to (like for windows updates but I think that ok for that only working with IE for secuirty reasons. The rest of MS sites works just fine)

 

[mcarvin]

The only thing that really bugs me about CSS compliance on both IE and Safari (IE has plenty unique problems, but I've pretty much given up) is the height vs. min/max-height property. It seems like IE sees height as min-height whereas safari completely ignores min-height altogether.

Here's a question for you...given all of the problems that IE/Win has, particularly with the box model, would you really want to see that added into the mix? Safari is more likely to see min/max-height supported, and I'm sure Hyatt has already addressed that.

Personally, and this may be kind of controversial, I'm happy that the situation is going to be status quo until early '07 when Longhorn gets rolling. I see the next 2.5 years as a period where web designers/developers should really truly learn their craft (thinking of the lazy ones, timelessblur mentions) and not rely 100% on Dreamweaver/GoLive/FrontPage to work their projects. The browser inconsistencies are well known and documented, and there are many ways of working around them without resorting to hacks. Problem is, most designers/developers out there say to themselves "Well, it works in IE. Now I'm done."

 

[ratz]

It's interesting because IE as I was explained will "guess" what people mean with HTML so more things can be compliant with it.

The whole point of Web Standards is to make those who create browsers adhear to the set standards not to have web designers trying to do workarounds to make their site work in different browsers. The W3C sets the standards and creators of browsers need to comply with them so all browsers display sites the same. The browser being compliant with standards not sites trying to be compliant with six different browsers.

IE will "guess" what people mean with HTML so more things can be compliant with it. This is why we are in the mess we are in at this point. All browser makers had different ways for their browsers to try to guess what the site author wanted. Because of this there was no standard and it became a mess. That exact situation is what the W3C and its web standards is trying to fix.

Here is a book that explains it all if you want to get into Web Design.
Designing with Web Standards

 

[ratz]

Well some of the standard out there Safria nor firefox will every be able to fully support. IE has pretty much become a standard to code for in it self. But that just the limition of a Netscape based broswer and the fact that IE based browers just out number with a huge ratio.

Not like that a big deal since very few sites out there are made mainly for IE and have problems iwth netscaped based and those website creators I will call lazy and well crappy type of webmaster.

I use firefox and only really use IE when I the site is giving me trouble in firefox or when I have to (like for windows updates but I think that ok for that only working with IE for secuirty reasons. The rest of MS sites works just fine)

The reason for web standards is to MAKE all browsers display sites the SAME.
The W3C sets the standards and right now Safari is by far in more compliance with the standards then IE. See my other posting here for more on standards and a link to a book the would clear it up, but the book is only for those who are interested in web design becuase it goes in depth into CSS.

 

[zim]

Hello,

Everybody knows that safari has problems with many standards like css 2. But apple seems not worried by that. I have the impression that apple doesn't try to solve these issues. That's why i ask : Will safari be one day able to support these standards like IE ? Is there a pb with the "core" of the browser ? his engine ?
Is there a problem with the mac himself ( because if i remember, IE for mac has also many pbs, more than IE for windows ) ?
Thanks first

@+

I am really confused by your statement. Safari is very much compliant with css1 and 2 (I am not saying that it is perfect or has included every attribute), apple has also included a few items from 2.1 (shadow, which has been left out of the most recent build of css). Anything that I throw at Safari, it gives me what I expected. IE on the other hand does not. I think you need to give more examples rather then referencing a website.

Recommended:
http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/
http://www.alistapart.com/
http://www.positioniseverything.net/

I am going to assume, seeing how you have never replied back that this was a thread started in-hopes to annoy people. There is plenty of documentation out there showing where IE's issues are, do some research.