Samsung 840 Pro SSD -- Wanting to update to Yosemite. Kext signing issue

H

had0ukenn

macrumors member
I currently have an Early-2011 MBP 13" -- 16GB Ram with 512 GB Samsung 840 PRO SSD in place of my original HDD. I heard some issue with TRIM enabler not working unless kext security is disabled. Do i really need trim enabler? I really want to update to Yosemite but still on Mavericks because of this issue. I was also planning on replacing my optical drive with another SSD for more space and whatnot but i don't want to exacerbate my TRIM situation with another SSD. Any advice?

I did read this: http://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

But i am not savvy with all the technical jargon. I'm not sure what Kext signing really does and the repercussions of it if i decide to turn it off. It mentions in the article in bold that "It is important to note that disabling the kext-signing to enable Trim is best described as taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and for most users it will not be worth it."

Why will it not be worth it? I was planning on turning trim off, updating to Yosemite, then turning trim back on (trim enabler 3.3 disables kext signing).

Thanks in advance.
 
had0ukenn said:
I currently have an Early-2011 MBP 13" -- 16GB Ram with 512 GB Samsung 840 PRO SSD in place of my original HDD. I heard some issue with TRIM enabler not working unless kext security is disabled. Do i really need trim enabler? I really want to update to Yosemite but still on Mavericks because of this issue. I was also planning on replacing my optical drive with another SSD for more space and whatnot but i don't want to exacerbate my TRIM situation with another SSD. Any advice?

I did read this: http://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

But i am not savvy with all the technical jargon. I'm not sure what Kext signing really does and the repercussions of it if i decide to turn it off. It mentions in the article in bold that "It is important to note that disabling the kext-signing to enable Trim is best described as taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and for most users it will not be worth it."

Why will it not be worth it? I was planning on turning trim off, updating to Yosemite, then turning trim back on (trim enabler 3.3 disables kext signing).

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Enable TRIM with this: http://chameleon.alessandroboschini.it/index.php
 
I don't think you need trim enabler, the SSD should have its own form of garbage management, nothing needs to be done software side. It will stay fast.
 
Last edited:
had0ukenn said:
I currently have an Early-2011 MBP 13" -- 16GB Ram with 512 GB Samsung 840 PRO SSD in place of my original HDD. I heard some issue with TRIM enabler not working unless kext security is disabled. Do i really need trim enabler? I really want to update to Yosemite but still on Mavericks because of this issue. I was also planning on replacing my optical drive with another SSD for more space and whatnot but i don't want to exacerbate my TRIM situation with another SSD. Any advice?

I did read this: http://www.cindori.org/trim-enabler-and-yosemite/

But i am not savvy with all the technical jargon. I'm not sure what Kext signing really does and the repercussions of it if i decide to turn it off. It mentions in the article in bold that "It is important to note that disabling the kext-signing to enable Trim is best described as taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and for most users it will not be worth it."

Why will it not be worth it? I was planning on turning trim off, updating to Yosemite, then turning trim back on (trim enabler 3.3 disables kext signing).

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Well, it is possible to enable trim on third-party SSDs with Yosemite. So if you need it, you can still do it. However, the catch is, as your correctly noted, that Apple put some restrictions in place. The kext signing requirement is not specifically there to prevent you from enabling trim, but its overall more of a security feature to prevent the system from booting if it detects irregularities in its kernel extensions. So in order to use Trim Enabler, or any similar software, you have to disable kext signing altogether, hence the sledgehammer to crack a nut. Whether that security feature is worth it, is up to you.

In my opinion, the security aspect is probably not that significant. If you refuse to upgrade to Yosemite because of it, then you are not benefitting from the kext signing either, so there is no additional security. My reason for dropping Trim Enabler was the inconvenience. If for some reason the kext signing is reenabled, perhaps on a system update or when your PRAM is reset, you won’t be able to boot your Mac and have to launch into Recovery Mode and enter some specific commands to disable trim again. You have to be aware of Trim Enabler all the time before doing any of these things. If you are willing to accept that inconvenience, then it should be absolutely fine.
 
KALLT said:
Well, it is possible to enable trim on third-party SSDs with Yosemite. So if you need it, you can still do it. However, the catch is, as your correctly noted, that Apple put some restrictions in place. The kext signing requirement is not specifically there to prevent you from enabling trim, but its overall more of a security feature to prevent the system from booting if it detects irregularities in its kernel extensions. So in order to use Trim Enabler, or any similar software, you have to disable kext signing altogether, hence the sledgehammer to crack a nut. Whether that security feature is worth it, is up to you.

In my opinion, the security aspect is probably not that significant. If you refuse to upgrade to Yosemite because of it, then you are not benefitting from the kext signing either, so there is no additional security. My reason for dropping Trim Enabler was the inconvenience. If for some reason the kext signing is reenabled, perhaps on a system update or when your PRAM is reset, you won’t be able to boot your Mac and have to launch into Recovery Mode and enter some specific commands to disable trim again. You have to be aware of Trim Enabler all the time before doing any of these things. If you are willing to accept that inconvenience, then it should be absolutely fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your informative reply. I don't want to deal with the inconvenience, to be honest. It just sounds like a hassle. How bad is it for your SSD to have trim disabled, though? I know most SSD's have an auto-trim feature but i read that apple turns them off.
 
had0ukenn said:
I was planning on turning trim off, updating to Yosemite, then turning trim back on (trim enabler 3.3 disables kext signing).

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

That's really all there is to it. That and a couple of reboots.

Just make a full TM backup on an external drive first just incase it doesn't work out for you. It really couldn't be much easier.
 
had0ukenn said:
Thanks for your informative reply. I don't want to deal with the inconvenience, to be honest. It just sounds like a hassle. How bad is it for your SSD to have trim disabled, though? I know most SSD's have an auto-trim feature but i read that apple turns them off.
Click to expand...

It’s not bad, but it may decrease the performance benefits of your SSD, especially write operations. I have disabled Trim for a while now and I can’t really notice the difference so far, but I am not sure where to look anyway for a comparison. My SSD is not running on full performance on my 2008 MacBook due to outdated hardware, so that may skew the results for me too. But I am the type who will probably forget to disable Trim on updating the system or resetting PRAM (which I occasionally), so I am sparing myself the trouble.
 
had0ukenn said:
Thanks for your informative reply. I don't want to deal with the inconvenience, to be honest. It just sounds like a hassle. How bad is it for your SSD to have trim disabled, though? I know most SSD's have an auto-trim feature but i read that apple turns them off.
Click to expand...

It's not really a hassle. I forgot to turn it off when updating to Yosemite and using an older version. It caused an extra reboot and that was it. Then I downloaded the new version, installed, rebooted and all was back to normal. Not everyone was that lucky but it was nearly flawless for me.

I have a 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro. It needs trim to prevent declining performance. Windows uses Trim, Linux uses Trim, Unix uses Trim, and OSX uses and enables Trim automatically on Apple SSDs. It is needed. I think some of the OWC SSDs have an aggressive garbage collection in firmware. That lessens the need for Trim but it's not the same thing. Only the OS knows where all useless data is stored, and Trim is the messenger that tells the garbage collector where to clean.

Now, if you have A LOT of free space on the SSD, you may not notice any speed degradation for a long time, but the garbage IS piling up in the areas not being occupied by active data.

You can also buy an Apple SSD, and OSX will enable Trim without the need of external utilties.
 
crjackson2134 said:
It's not really a hassle. I forgot to turn it off when updating to Yosemite and using an older version. It caused an extra reboot and that was it. Then I downloaded the new version, installed, rebooted and all was back to normal. Not everyone was that lucky but it was nearly flawless for me.

I have a 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro. It needs trim to prevent declining performance. Windows uses Trim, Linux uses Trim, Unix uses Trim, and OSX uses and enables Trim automatically on Apple SSDs. It is needed. I think some of the OWC SSDs have an aggressive garbage collection in firmware. That lessens the need for Trim but it's not the same thing. Only the OS knows where all useless data is stored, and Trim is the messenger that tells the garbage collector where to clean.

Now, if you have A LOT of free space on the SSD, you may not notice any speed degradation for a long time, but the garbage IS piling up in the areas not being occupied by active data.

You can also buy an Apple SSD, and OSX will enable Trim without the need of external utilties.
Click to expand...

I'm just waiting to back up my data and then i guess i will update to Yosemite. This 840 Pro was kinda expensive, so I'm not looking to get rid of it anytime soon. I was also thinking about using a second SSD in place of my optical drive, i may get an apple SSD for that, but i heard its good to have the same type of SSD when running two SSD's.
 
had0ukenn said:
I'm just waiting to back up my data and then i guess i will update to Yosemite. This 840 Pro was kinda expensive, so I'm not looking to get rid of it anytime soon. I was also thinking about using a second SSD in place of my optical drive, i may get an apple SSD for that, but i heard its good to have the same type of SSD when running two SSD's.
Click to expand...

Getting an Apple SSD should be fine. If you do get one, put your OS on that drive and Kext/booting concerns should be a thig of the past. I can't personally attest to that but it would seem logical.
 
crjackson2134 said:
Getting an Apple SSD should be fine. If you do get one, put your OS on that drive and Kext/booting concerns should be a thig of the past. I can't personally attest to that but it would seem logical.
Click to expand...

I talked to an apple specialist, and he told me you can't buy an Apple SSD, they come installed on the MacBooks.
 
In regard to Trim Enabler:

Just for clarity,
I should always turn off TE when upgrading to the newest OS X, reboot, upgrade. Reboot again and turn on TE. Reboot. Check status.

What about apps from the app store or upgrades to apps from the app store? Should I turn off all automatic updates just to be safe or is it just OS X updates?

Thanks in advance.
 
scottbushey said:
In regard to Trim Enabler:

Just for clarity,
I should always turn off TE when upgrading to the newest OS X, reboot, upgrade. Reboot again and turn on TE. Reboot. Check status.

What about apps from the app store or upgrades to apps from the app store? Should I turn off all automatic updates just to be safe or is it just OS X updates?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

It would only be an issue with OS updates.
 
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