Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Senior Apple Engineers Say Hackers Are Main iPhone Security Threat, Not Government

MacRumors

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
68,281
39,089



iPhone-Passcode-250x317.jpg
Apple may be embroiled in an ongoing battle with the U.S. government over privacy rights and the boundaries of encryption, but in a meeting with reporters (via TechCrunch), Apple security engineers said the government is not the threat they aim to counter when implementing new security features for iOS devices.
Senior Apple engineers feel that government intrusion is not their primary threat model when designing iPhone security and said they instead prefer to focus on fending off hackers.

The engineers also characterized Apple's pushback against the FBI as motivated not by a desire to impede a terrorism investigation, but rather to defend its ability to protect users against non-governmental threats.
Click to expand...
Hackers, not the government, are what Apple aims to counter by beefing up security, and Apple engineers don't want to be "viewed as government adversaries." With every iOS update, hackers, some malicious and some not, make an effort to discover previously unknown security flaws able to be exploited to gain access to iOS devices. Apple has to continually work to eliminate vulnerabilities and improve security in never-ending race.

In the call, TechCrunch says Apple engineers explained features in its Security White Paper [PDF] to reporters in an effort to emphasize the work that goes into protecting data, highlighting features like the Secure Enclave, Touch ID, two-factor authentication, and end-to-end encryption in iMessage.

Built into devices utilizing an A7 or later, the Secure Enclave, which maintains encryption keys directly on the chip, is a separate chip with its own secure boot and personalized software that's updated separately from the application processor. With iOS 8, Apple improved encryption for devices, making it impossible for the company to access data on a locked iPhone.

According to Apple engineers, who reportedly "disputed the theory" the iPhone's security allows criminals to evade law enforcement, implementing strong security measures is necessary to protect personal privacy for all people. In past arguments, Apple executives have also pointed out that even if the iPhone did have weaker encryption, criminals would be savvy enough to seek out other encryption methods like messaging apps with end-to-end encryption while the average consumer would be left more vulnerable.

Amid its dispute with the FBI, reports suggested Apple had already begun work on implementing stronger security measures to protect iOS devices, and in today's call with reporters, Apple said it has revamped its internal security teams.

Update: The Verge has shared additional details on the press briefing.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Senior Apple Engineers Say Hackers Are Main iPhone Security Threat, Not Government
 
Article Link
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/15/apple-engineers-hackers-security-threat/
  • Like
Reactions: thermodynamic
Only governments murder people by the millions. Don't forget that the US government put US citizens of Japanese decent into concentration camps during WWII, more recently murdered innocent children in Waco, and the current administration has illegally spied on virtually every US citizen. In my opinion, the US government poses a much bigger danger than hackers, criminals, or even terrorists to ordinary Americans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jess13, miniyou64, Shunnabunich and 8 others
mcarling said:
Only governments murder people by the millions. Don't forget that the US government put US citizens of Japanese decent into concentration camps during WWII, more recently murdered innocent children in Waco, and the current administration has illegally spied on virtually every US citizen. In my opinion, the US government poses a much bigger danger than hackers, criminals, or even terrorists to ordinary Americans.
Click to expand...
Bu...bu....but terrorist!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jess13 and autumnsong
mcarling said:
Only governments murder people by the millions. Don't forget that the US government put US citizens of Japanese decent into concentration camps during WWII, more recently murdered innocent children in Waco, and the current administration has illegally spied on virtually every US citizen. In my opinion, the US government poses a much bigger danger than hackers, criminals, or even terrorists to ordinary Americans.
Click to expand...

tryandstopus.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: roadbloc, Jess13, Borin and 2 others
I thought they're just paying the hackers/jailbreakers to silence them for awhile. There was a time when every bug found another jailbreak comes out for almost every major releases. iOS was never been as secure as we thought, because every now and then we heard about a new bug unpatched for awhile. Yet all those hackers back then all of them disappeared and in complete silence. The only thing of interest now doing this are Chinese hackers, which obviously has hidden agenda.
 
joueboy said:
I thought they're just paying the hackers/jailbreakers to silence them for awhile. There was a time when every bug found another jailbreak comes out for almost every major releases. iOS was never been as secure as we thought, because every now and then we heard about a new bug unpatched for awhile. Yet all those hackers back then all of them disappeared and in complete silence. The only thing of interest now doing this are Chinese hackers, which obviously has hidden agenda.
Click to expand...
When the iPhone first came out there were hardware level exploits being used which Apple can't patch. Those same devices would be jailbroken on iOS 9 too if they actually ran it. Secondly the Chinese aren't subject to the same laws which allows them to easier exploit the OS with out worry of being fined or sent to jail.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B4U
mcarling said:
Only governments murder people by the millions. Don't forget that the US government put US citizens of Japanese decent into concentration camps during WWII, more recently murdered innocent children in Waco, and the current administration has illegally spied on virtually every US citizen. In my opinion, the US government poses a much bigger danger than hackers, criminals, or even terrorists to ordinary Americans.
Click to expand...
Well, sure, for most things I'd give you that. Our politicians stopped caring for us a long time ago. With that said, I think that Apple's position on this is that hackers are more apt to conduct a mass attack with nefarious intentions of ransoming, disseminating, or otherwise using people's data (payment, health, contact records, etc.). Whereas the government is more interested in individuals that are a threat to the government or its operations (including protecting the public).
[doublepost=1460767781][/doublepost]
goobot said:
...Secondly the Chinese aren't subject to the same laws which allows them to easier exploit the OS with out worry of being fined or sent to jail.
Click to expand...
Fined? Jail? Please! They'd be given jobs working for the State.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDCODGER, PBRsg and B4U
morcutt11 said:
Well, sure, for most things I'd give you that. Our politicians stopped caring for us a long time ago. With that said, I think that Apple's position on this is that hackers are more apt to conduct a mass attack with nefarious intentions of ransoming, disseminating, or otherwise using people's data (payment, health, contact records, etc.). Whereas the government is more interested in individuals that are a threat to the government or its operations (including protecting the public).
[doublepost=1460767781][/doublepost]
Fined? Jail? Please! They'd be given jobs working for the State.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you are referring to the US since you said state? There are several things you can't do such as use the software itself which falls into copyright and such. The people who have made past jailbreaks have said this multiple times. So yes, fines and maybe jail.
 
Of course they would claim that. Not to be seen to be "plotting" against the government.
In the end there's no difference. A "hacker" is anyone with enough technical expertise to exploit weaknesses in any system. Whether sitting in mummy's basement or an FBI cubicle.

The question remains, are we entitled to privacy or not ?
Good move by Apple, but just until the next court case.
 
morcutt11 said:
Well, sure, for most things I'd give you that. Our politicians stopped caring for us a long time ago. With that said, I think that Apple's position on this is that hackers are more apt to conduct a mass attack with nefarious intentions of ransoming, disseminating, or otherwise using people's data (payment, health, contact records, etc.). Whereas the government is more interested in individuals that are a threat to the government or its operations (including protecting the public).
[doublepost=1460767781][/doublepost]
Fined? Jail? Please! They'd be given jobs working for the State.
Click to expand...
You mean the communist party, right?
 
I can't believe Apple is playing along with this security theater. I knew Apple had fallen - but not so far. You were great Apple.
 
And yet somehow, we already knew hackers were always a main target already that already.. Their a main target with any phone.

Someone trying to push the envelope again.
 
mcarling said:
Only governments murder people by the millions. Don't forget that the US government put US citizens of Japanese decent into concentration camps during WWII, more recently murdered innocent children in Waco, and the current administration has illegally spied on virtually every US citizen. In my opinion, the US government poses a much bigger danger than hackers, criminals, or even terrorists to ordinary Americans.
Click to expand...
Governments do, indeed, do a lot of bad things, but twisting "idiot parents kept their children in a burning building until they all died" into "government murdered innocent children", and using the phrase "concentration camps" (which _everyone_ associates with the Holocaust), to describe the Japanese internment camps (one was a terrible idea and a low point in US History, while the other was a horrifying attempt to exterminate an entire segment of society), and calling out the current administration for spying, rather than for continuing to use, and not shutting down, the spying apparatus put into place by the previous administration, ... if you present a valid conclusion supported by bad data, people will tend to disbelieve your conclusion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeremiah256
morcutt11 said:
. . . . Whereas the government is more interested in individuals that are a threat to the government or its operations (including protecting the public).
[doublepost=1460767781][/doublepost]
Fined? Jail? Please! They'd be given jobs working for the State.
Click to expand...

Exactly, except that based on the U.S. Government's agenda today (destruction of the middle class, legal vote buying, clear superiority of the political elite, etc.), everyone with a job and the freedom to not need government services to survive is a threat or will be in the near future. Just to be clear, if you are middle class or higher you are a threat because you cannot be controlled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fricotin and miniyou64
Free advertising is the true win here for Apple. Keeping the companies name in the news is priceless. Given Apple's well honed skill at spinning and hype, this is an endless opportunity for promotion.
 
MacBH928 said:
If the gov. wants to break into your phone, does it not make them the "hackers" ?
Click to expand...

No, they just hire the hackers. "Hackers" suggests some actual skills. Stopping the hackers, stops the government, until theY trump your efforts with a court-order a conservative Supreme court upholds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
Shirasaki said:
I assume he does mean communist party, which has been proved leading countless cyber attacks against United States.
Click to expand...
Just want to clarify. Because "The State" usually refers to the U.S. here.
I am also well aware of the Communists hacking activity against the U.S. government agencies. In fact, I am one of the victims of the OPM data breach last June...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back