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Shipping Timetable for the 970

M

MacManiac1224

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 21, 2001
227
0
NY
Ok, I just saw an article over at Insanely Great Mac about Hon Hai assembling PowerPC 970 capable computers now. My question is, if they are assembling the 970's now, what does that mean in relation to the introduction date? Is it possible that a 970 equipped computer could be released at WWDC? If so, when will it ship if they are assembling them now?

My best guess is the there will be 3 different machines, Fast, Faster, and Fastest:
Fast:
970 low speed (1.4-1.6)
DDR PC3200 Ram (256mb)
USB 2
AGP 8X with the ATI 9700 card

Faster:
970 mid (1.6-1.8)
same as other stuff, 512mb of ram

Fastest:
970 high (1.8-2.0)
Ram: 1 gig
maybe ATI 9800

These are my best guesses, I think they are probaly on the nose. Apple is going to want to show the major difference with these computers and the current G4's, that is why the clock speeds are going to be that much higher. probaly 2.0 as the high end.

What do you guys think?
 
Seems pretty spot on to me.
400 MHz RAM, yep
Radeon 9700, yep
Radeon 9800, should be there by then.
1.4 - 2.0 GHz.... Probably. Could mean Apple has to do the MHz (GHz by now) myth again, though.

FSB speed?
Serial ATA?
nVidia?

All Superdrives, I must imagine. Kinda crappy it's not on the Dual 1.25 Ghz at this moment.

Coming this fall!
:) (I wish/hope/pray/want/need/on my desk)
 
I would hope they would go for the fastest processors available (so up to 2 GHz on the PPC 970).

My hope is that they make the next year 17" PB not only powered with a 970 processor, but powered with two of them. And the OS would shut down the second one when you were running on battery. Think about it---with the 17" PB layout, you've got a LOT of extra area, and essentially the same hardware in the upcoming 15" PB. Besides, the 970 is designed from the ground up with SMP in mind. How awesome would it be to have a 17" PB with TWO 2 GHz PPC 970 64-bit processors? I'd have more processing power than I'd know what to do with....although I'm sure I could think of something. :)

Apple, I tell you this though. The day you release that machine is the day I plop down $3,300+ for it instantly without asking questions. :D
 
Originally posted by mcs37
Apple, I tell you this though. The day you release that machine is the day I plop down $3,300+ for it instantly without asking questions. :D
Click to expand...
If Apple releases a dual processor powerbook, do you think it will only cost $3,300?

I'd think if that's the case, it'll only be for high enders...and cost at least 4 grand.

But hey, i'm biased, i like my 17" powerbook, and I don't want apple to put two processers in...if apple put the 970 in i wouldn't be surprised. But two...*gulp*
 
Originally posted by Over Achiever
If Apple releases a dual processor powerbook, do you think it will only cost $3,300?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think it would be in that range. They can't honestly create a laptop that costs more than $3,500 starting---even the higher players just can't justify the expense. The most expensive part of the 17" PB is that gorgeous screen. That's running you $1,000 alone. An extra processor would probably cost only an extra $300-400.

Consider this, then: make it optional. Make the board dual from the beginning, but give people the option of single 970 17" PB or dual 970 17" PB. Price difference, something like $400. I'd buy the one with the extra processor since I know how much better computing is when there are two processors. (dual P3-500 MHz linux box is my baby ;))
 
why is 2 Ghz the max for the 970? is that just what we're assuming? or is it the limit for the .13 chips (can't get faster until they go to .09)?
 
We've been told that they can get to 2.5 GHZ at .13 micron. So we can expect them to be able to go above 3 GHZ and beyond at .09.
 
One question, why the ZIF socket?
Perhaps one answer is that the New PowerMac is coming together so fast that they can put the processor in in final assembly.

What I'd like to see in a 970 system :
Dual 1.8 GHz 970 (at least)
Dual Channel DDR SDRAM - 8 slots - 8 GB (use that 64 bits)
AGP 8x
ATI 9800 or nVidia
SCSI
serial ATA
...

The dual channel DDR SDRAM should be able to feed the hungry beast. The big memory would allow software developers write simpler apps and let the OS handle memory and paging issues.
:cool:
 
Originally posted by QCassidy352
why is 2 Ghz the max for the 970? is that just what we're assuming? or is it the limit for the .13 chips (can't get faster until they go to .09)?
Click to expand...

IBM has announced a limit of 1.8GHz for the initial PowerPC 970 product. Rumor (and a badly translated from German IBM press release) say that it will reach 2.5GHz on .13 micron.

I have no clue where the 2GHz is coming from. I think people are probably making it up.
 
Guys from what the spec benchmarks alone are saying i dont think we need to worry about 1 PPC 970 not being enough for most machines.
 
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
I have no clue where the 2GHz is coming from. I think people are probably making it up.
Click to expand...

Yes, rough estimate. IBM did mention the 2.5 GHz PPC 970. I was just saying the first one may only be 1.8 GHz or 2 GHz, and they'll crank it up to 2.5 or 3 afterward. If we're lucky.
 
Someone mentioned Serial ATA earlier, I would like to know about this as well but I haven’t seen anyone talking about it. Shouldn’t this be a lot better then ATA 100 ? And don’t Serial ATA drives use thinner cables instead of those bulky IDE cables?

I would like to know what would be the best hard drive setup to use in a powermac since I plan on getting one if we see the 970. I do mostly graphic work Illustrator, Photoshop, Indesign. Would it be best to use a SCSI drive at something faster then 7200 RPM ?

Or is there even a need for a faster drive then an ATA100 considering the type of work I'm doing?
 
Best is subjective.
The fastest ( and most expensive) drives are SCSI. They can be had up to 15,000 RPM.
Next are IDE (or ATA) drives. I think they can be had upto 10,000 RPM, but I think 7200 is more common. The bus interface can be upto ATA133. More common is ATA100. Is ATA133 faster ? This maybe academic, check www.tomshardware.com.
Serial ATA looks promising. Not quite common yet.

In a nutshell;
SCSI - fast, reliable and expensive.
IDE - big and cheap

PCs use IDEs, nobody expects a Windozemachine to be reliable:D
 
Originally posted by Malus120
Guys from what the spec benchmarks alone are saying i dont think we need to worry about 1 PPC 970 not being enough for most machines.
Click to expand...

640k should be enough too:D

I'm a power pig, there is never enough, there is good, but there is never enough:D
 
Originally posted by Flynnstone
Best is subjective.
The fastest ( and most expensive) drives are SCSI. They can be had up to 15,000 RPM.
Next are IDE (or ATA) drives. I think they can be had upto 10,000 RPM, but I think 7200 is more common. The bus interface can be upto ATA133. More common is ATA100. Is ATA133 faster ? This maybe academic, check www.tomshardware.com.
Serial ATA looks promising. Not quite common yet.

In a nutshell;
SCSI - fast, reliable and expensive.
IDE - big and cheap

PCs use IDEs, nobody expects a Windozemachine to be reliable:D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, that’s good to know. So then do you think that for the type of work I’m doing (Graphic Design) is it worth it to go for a more expensive SCSI 15,000 RPM ? or are these fast drives only really useful for something like video editing with Final Cut Pro (which I wont be doing) ?

Or would it be a better idea to just get the stock 80gig 7200RPM ATA100 drive that comes with the Powermac and then get a second drive as my SCSI but something small like a 5 or 10 gig at 15,000 RPM just to use a my scratch disc, since I know photoshop, illustrator etc. like to have a scratch disc that is separate from the drive with the application installed on it. Also move the current projects onto the SCSI drive and then put them back into storage on the ATA100 when I’m done with them.

Does this make sense to anyone? Or do any graphic Designers have experience with a setup like this ? I’m really not sure what to do here and would like to figure out the best setup before I buy my machine.
 
Originally posted by Malus120
Guys from what the spec benchmarks alone are saying i dont think we need to worry about 1 PPC 970 not being enough for most machines.
Click to expand...


hahaha - you've obviously never rendered something for 5 days straight.....

give me all the power you can and it still won't be enough. Although a dual 2+GHz 970 will be nice:D

All this speculation - but reasonable. Its tough having to wait for June to find out.

But what I really want to know is how soon do you think they'll go to the .09 micron?

D
 
ATA/SCSI misconceptions...

Originally posted by Flynnstone
PCs use IDEs, nobody expects a Windozemachine to be reliable:D
Click to expand...
Right, and many Windows Servers, UNIX servers on PC architecture use SCSI, and Apple's Xserve doesn't offer SCSI as default (its an option, and its card only, you can't buy SCSI drives from Apple to be automatically used in Xserve). And you can build a PC completely without ATA, just SCSI. Does it make Windows more reliable? No. Neither would it be for Macs.

The problem isn't the interface at all, the problem is that they make the IDE drives cheap by lowering the quality. Most ATA drives are identical to its SCSI brother, but the SCSI one is made very much more meticulously.
 
quad processors in the high end. realistically, the PPC970 is cheaper to make than the curent G4s. but in any case, the CPU is not what makes up the bulk of the cost of the powermacs - its the ram, HD, case, IO etc. processors will only be a few hundred dollars each. trust me, the new version of shake, FCP etc will really take advantage of the added speed boost. and since the ppc970 runs cooler than the current G4, the heat issues won't be monumental. here is my predicted lineup (in terms of processors):

fast
single ppc970 1.6GHz

faster
single ppc970 2.0GHz

fastest
single ppc970 2.5GHz

ultimate
Dual ppc970 2.0GHz

Pro
Quad ppc970 2.0GHz

remember, because apple killed Shake on windows (even though Shake on the mac is slower than on windows because of our slower hardware), it needs fill the gap quickly. this means that not only can they satisfy the general power users (by giving them powermacs), but they can also satisfy the high end users who are used to paying for $10,000 systems from Avid, SGI and Sun. the apple platform will then offer a complete solution for video editing. and then, there's the whole apple branded camera rumors etc, but i won't get into that.

but there is...one more thing...:)
remember those rumors of an apple branded 3D app? they died a quiet death. remember why they started in the first place? because Richard Kerris, the guy in charge of the Maya development team, was hired by apple last year. for a few weeks, people were saying that something big was in the works at Apple, something 3D. could apple release their own 3D app to revolutionise the industry? i think they could. 3D software has a long way to go in terms of ease of use, realism and...innovation. the industry needs a company dedicated to ease of use, to functionality, and quality, a company that innovates. a company like... apple? :)
of course, they will need fast computers to provide the BEST solution for 3D. perhaps quad processors?

just a theory.
 
Originally posted by The Reaper
quad processors in the high end. realistically, the PPC970 is cheaper to make than the curent G4s. but in any case, the CPU is not what makes up the bulk of the cost of the powermacs - its the ram, HD, case, IO etc. processors will only be a few hundred dollars each. trust me, the new version of shake, FCP etc will really take advantage of the added speed boost. and since the ppc970 runs cooler than the current G4, the heat issues won't be monumental. here is my predicted lineup (in terms of processors):

fast
single ppc970 1.6GHz

faster
single ppc970 2.0GHz

fastest
single ppc970 2.5GHz

ultimate
Dual ppc970 2.0GHz

Pro
Quad ppc970 2.0GHz

remember, because apple killed Shake on windows (even though Shake on the mac is slower than on windows because of our slower hardware), it needs fill the gap quickly. this means that not only can they satisfy the general power users (by giving them powermacs), but they can also satisfy the high end users who are used to paying for $10,000 systems from Avid, SGI and Sun. the apple platform will then offer a complete solution for video editing. and then, there's the whole apple branded camera rumors etc, but i won't get into that.


just a theory.
Click to expand...

I dont know about that, it doesn;t really make snese to me. Seems more likely that for the real high end stuff they would market the ultimate powermac with Xserve cluster nodes (connected via fiberchannel of course). That of course is IF clusterbility is integrated into the next OS release. This gives users the ability to add as much power as they need, no limit on how high. And, it does not add more products which increase cost per unit (as not as many would be made).
 
Originally posted by zer0army
Thanks for the info, that’s good to know. So then do you think that for the type of work I’m doing (Graphic Design) is it worth it to go for a more expensive SCSI 15,000 RPM ? or are these fast drives only really useful for something like video editing with Final Cut Pro (which I wont be doing) ?

Or would it be a better idea to just get the stock 80gig 7200RPM ATA100 drive that comes with the Powermac and then get a second drive as my SCSI but something small like a 5 or 10 gig at 15,000 RPM just to use a my scratch disc, since I know photoshop, illustrator etc. like to have a scratch disc that is separate from the drive with the application installed on it. Also move the current projects onto the SCSI drive and then put them back into storage on the ATA100 when I’m done with them.

Does this make sense to anyone? Or do any graphic Designers have experience with a setup like this ? I’m really not sure what to do here and would like to figure out the best setup before I buy my machine.
Click to expand...

I don't know how you work all day. But I guess a simple rule of thumb would be, if you beat the crap out of your hard drive all day. Then I would recommend a fast SCSI drive. If you don't abuse the drive, then goes with IDE. You can use time is money idea, if applicable. Also a friend of mine uses SCSI drives in his Windows boxes because he likes the "snappy" feel of the system.
 
Hard drives are engineered for the environment they will be put in.
SCSI is designed for things like servers, to be used all day long.
IDE (ATA) drives are designed for supporting screensavers:D
 
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