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leeuk321

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 21, 2018
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I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are with the 2020 Mac Mini? Whether to get it or wait for the next generation? I've been thinking about getting a Mac mini for the last few months, but was waiting for the 2020 release, which was...meh. I mean, I appreciate that they've done away with the 128gb option and 256gb is now the base model, but 128gb was embarrassing for a desktop even in 2018, so well overdue. But the price/config reshuffle aside, it IS the 2018 Mac mini with a new badge on it. However, I'm still considering it because the i7/256gb config (which I was always looking to get) has now got a $200 haircut; plus, even though it's guts are the same as the 2018, being a 2020 model will likely increase it's selling price if/when I upgrade in a couple of years.

My other line of thinking is to perhaps wait for the "proper" refresh, but I've no idea when that will be. Could be late 2020, 2021 or even 2022? It'd be handy if Apple had a page where they told everyone their plans for the upcoming few years 😆.
 
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I’d say it depends on the things you plan to do with it. At this point it still has the 8th gen processor and the integrated GPU which keeps me from buying it.
 
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It is not new, it is not a 2020 model, it does not have a new badge, it is the 2018 model with a price adjustment for the storage.

The question as always is what are you going to use it for?

In terms of a refresh, even if there was a 'proper refresh' as you call it later this year, what do you think that will look like?

Any refresh will be nothing more than a CPU bump, there won't be a new design, a GPU added or anything else. So the reality is all you are waiting for is an updated CPU that at best will provide a marginal increase in performance.

Bottom line, the Mac Mini is as good as it is going to get.
 
This is the same question I am asking but from a different perspective. There are numerous reports that Apple will be shifting away from Intel processors and switching to ARM. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/03/26/kuo-several-arm-based-macs-2021/

Anybody who remembers the previous switch from PPC to Intel may recall a long period of transition with expensive bug laden software upgrades for the new hardware, while those still running PPC were basically left behind on old software.

For the next couple of years Intel is definitely the better bet in terms of compatibility, but longer term who knows, so if you typically keep a desktop for 5 years or more and use it for work it is very difficult to know the right way forward here, especially with everything going on in the world. I know I have to change my computer sooner or later, but speed is not the real issue here, it's software compatibility over the next 5 years.
 
it's software compatibility over the next 5 years.

Even if they do switch to ARM there will be a translation layer to ensure compatibility. So there will not be an issue with compatibility until you start to see ARM only software which will be a very slow burner. Software houses will need a lot of convincing to port their products to ARM, they certainly won't abandon Intel/AMD.

Long story short, compatibility over the next 5 years won't be an issue.
 
Maybe you are right. I am not so much worried about current software running on ARM, since there will no doubt be a modern equivalent of Rosetta and hopefully Apple will have that nailed down. It's of more concern whether certain key software updates in say three years time will be ARM only if I buy an Intel now.

Going back to the last transition I remember old software ran dog slow on Rosetta with Intel, while new software was incredibly buggy for a couple of years. It was only a year or so though before the G5 was out in the cold as developers transferred all their attention to Intel.

I'll probably get a new i7 right now, but it's certainly not a simple choice like it would have been normally.
 
As Lee wrote above, there is no "2020" Mini.
It's still the 2018 Mini with a bump-up for the internal drive sizes.

I wouldn't expect to see a new Mini before October, if there's to be one this year (doubtful, in my opinion).

Probably nothing new until late 2021 at the earliest.
It -might- have the new (non-Intel) CPU, no one knows outside of Apple.

If you NEED a Mini now, BUY one now.
It's still a very capable Mac.
 
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Going back to the last transition I remember old software ran dog slow on Rosetta with Intel, while new software was incredibly buggy for a couple of years. It was only a year or so though before the G5 was out in the cold as developers transferred all their attention to Intel.

The most useful place to look is Microsofts surface pro X, which is not as good as anyone thought it might be, yes, performance is great on native apps, not so great when trying to translate, who would have thought it!

Honestly, I really don't think you are going to see an Apple Ax only range of laptop/desktop devices in the next few years, rather a range of specific Apple Ax devices alongside the regular intel options which will be phased out during a long transition period whilst the software side catches up.
 
As mentioned above, the CPUs in the 2020 Mac Mini are a few years old now.

If you need support for things like DisplayPort 1.4 to plug an Apple Pro Display XDR or equivalent down the road, you’re better off waiting for the new Intel CPUs.
 
I’d say it depends on the things you plan to do with it. At this point it still has the 8th gen processor and the integrated GPU which keeps me from buying it.


I'll be generally be doing office work, plus photo-editing and some occasional video transcoding and light gaming (not the GPU-intensive latest marquee 3D games.) But yes, that's what was keeping me from purchasing, the ageing CPU, integrated graphics, plus the 2666mz RAM also.

It is not new, it is not a 2020 model, it does not have a new badge, it is the 2018 model with a price adjustment for the storage.

The question as always is what are you going to use it for?

In terms of a refresh, even if there was a 'proper refresh' as you call it later this year, what do you think that will look like?

Any refresh will be nothing more than a CPU bump, there won't be a new design, a GPU added or anything else. So the reality is all you are waiting for is an updated CPU that at best will provide a marginal increase in performance.

Bottom line, the Mac Mini is as good as it is going to get.
Ahh, I didn't realize that it wasn't even "rebadged", so to speak. I know Apple sometimes just make incremental bumps, and I thought this time they had just taken it a step further by shuffling the deck a bit and saying "The Mac Mini 2020". So, I guess now it's the case of whether to purchase an 18 month old computer, or wait until the next model. I guess what I'd like to see is a CPU bump, like you say, faster RAM, discrete graphics, improved cooling; maybe not all those things, but as much as possible. And later on down the line an ARM-based Mini.

But largely I agree with you about there not being hope for a new design. I appreciate that they're keeping loyal to the server crowd by keeping to the same dimensions and internal PSU, and it's probably the right move, but I can't help feeling like its holding it back somewhat. If they didn't have to grandfather the design in each year, it'd allow for a lot more freedom, and allow for them to give the machine an external PSU, better cooling and perhaps discrete graphics.

This is the same question I am asking but from a different perspective. There are numerous reports that Apple will be shifting away from Intel processors and switching to ARM. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/03/26/kuo-several-arm-based-macs-2021/

Anybody who remembers the previous switch from PPC to Intel may recall a long period of transition with expensive bug laden software upgrades for the new hardware, while those still running PPC were basically left behind on old software.

For the next couple of years Intel is definitely the better bet in terms of compatibility, but longer term who knows, so if you typically keep a desktop for 5 years or more and use it for work it is very difficult to know the right way forward here, especially with everything going on in the world. I know I have to change my computer sooner or later, but speed is not the real issue here, it's software compatibility over the next 5 years.

Ahh yes, good point about the ARM architecture, it might be best to wait for the dust to settle for a year or so after the ARM-based Macs come out, for software to catch up and any bumps to be ironed out.

I think I'm going to go for a Mini now, but look to snap up a used one which I can then sell on in a year or so when the next refresh comes in, if I feel it's worth the upgrade based on my needs and the performance increase.
 
[...]allow for them to give the machine an external PSU, better cooling and perhaps discrete graphics.
The internal PSU is one of the USP’s of the mini and Apple hopefully sticks to it.

I think I'm going to go for a Mini now, but look to snap up a used one
Look in the Refurbished area of the Apple Online store. Choice has increased there on the 2018 mini.
 
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The internal PSU is one of the USP’s of the mini and Apple hopefully sticks to it.


Look in the Refurbished area of the Apple Online store. Choice has increased there on the 2018 mini.

I think there must be a split opinion on the internal PSU then, because I've heard a lot of people shouting out for an external PSU on the Mini. Apart from people who appreciate Apple sticking to the dimensions / internal PSU because they're part of the server/rackmount crowd, what advantage is there to sticking with the size and internal PSU? Or should I say, do the advantages outweighs the disadvantages? Genuine question.

From my standpoint, if Apple changed the size and/or made the PSU external, it'd give more space (and/or allow for a small design), more freedom of design, better airflow, run cooler, isolated surge protection and make the machine far more user-maintainable (i.e. if there is a PSU fault, you can simply replace the PSU yourself). For the non-server-crowd users, do the advantages outweigh all of the above, and if so what are they? Again, genuine question, I'm curious if I'm missing something.

Thanks for the advice on the refurbished section, but unfortunately I've never seen any in the UK Apple store, which is where I'm based. In the UK that is, not the store 😂. My fault for not being clear sorry, I used dollars in my opening post when refrencing the "$200 haircut", because I appreciate this is a predominately US forum and wanted to talk in native currency, so to speak. But, the UK prices are currently mirroring the dollar, so it's same difference, £200.
 
Perhaps I have been unlucky, but in my experience of some 25 years with several Apple computers they either come out of the factory fantastically reliable or complete lemons. Not once has a nearly new repaired machine gone on to work reliably, so for that reason I wouldn't touch a refurb no matter what claims are made.
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Regarding the external PSU I'd love to see that given the advantages it could enable, but I doubt Apple will ever do it unless they can find some clever workaround for the server crowd.
 
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o for that reason I wouldn't touch a refurb no matter what claims are made.

Unlucky I suspect, which is unusual as the term 'refurbished' is not really the full story. The majority of devices are not actually refurbished, they are returns within the 14-day window. Never had any issues personally.

I've never seen any in the UK Apple store

They do appear almost daily, but they move so fast you wouldn't realise they were actually there.
 
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I mean, I appreciate that they've done away with the 128gb option and 256gb is now the base model, but 128gb was embarrassing for a desktop even in 2018, so well overdue.
This is so terrible. If they want to lower the price of 256gb that would be fine, but removing the 128gb option is bad.

I have had my 2018 Mac Mini since the model was released and use 37.45 GB. Many of us don't need a lot of storage, there is no reason to make us buy something that we don't need.
 
This is so terrible. If they want to lower the price of 256gb that would be fine, but removing the 128gb option is bad.

For you and some others, 128gb is fine and will be for some time no doubt, but the reality is that the change in storage costs these days means that it makes no sense to keep providing 128gb whether it is needed or not.
 
ashleykaryl wrote:
"Not once has a nearly new repaired machine gone on to work reliably, so for that reason I wouldn't touch a refurb no matter what claims are made."

The many thousands of folks who have had good experiences (including me) with Apple-refurbished products stand as testimony to rebut your claim above...

Re external power supplies:
The Mini HAD an external power supply until around 2010 or 2011, I believe.
I'd prefer an external power supply, but... Apple does what they want to do.
 
Maybe you are right. I am not so much worried about current software running on ARM, since there will no doubt be a modern equivalent of Rosetta and hopefully Apple will have that nailed down. It's of more concern whether certain key software updates in say three years time will be ARM only if I buy an Intel now.

Going back to the last transition I remember old software ran dog slow on Rosetta with Intel, while new software was incredibly buggy for a couple of years. It was only a year or so though before the G5 was out in the cold as developers transferred all their attention to Intel.

I'll probably get a new i7 right now, but it's certainly not a simple choice like it would have been normally.

I am not holding my breath on ARM based Mac at all. Judging by how poorly Win32 applications run on Snapdragon based ARM Surface X, this is major turn off for me.

I don't care if the A14 or whatever post higher benchmark than whatever Intel based processor, when you have to emulate x86 based application, you gonna get the performance hit. It is like you are buying a super car, but limiting your engine to Honda Civic.

Transition to ARM based Mac is certainly beneficial to Apple, but I am fail to see how this is beneficial to end users. One of the major selling point of Mac (at least I think) is ability to run Windows via bootcamp. Apple would certainly loss many customers when this is not option (I know lots of people running Windows 10 full time on Mac, I don't understand why, but people do)
 
One of the major selling point of Mac (at least I think) is ability to run Windows via bootcamp. Apple would certainly loss many customers when this is not option (I know lots of people running Windows 10 full time on Mac, I don't understand why, but people do)

Most of the people using Mac that I know dual boot, and they have to, something they can only use on Windows is always the reason. If you force them to make a choice, they won't pick Mac.
 
For the next couple of years Intel is definitely the better bet in terms of compatibility, but longer term who knows, so if you typically keep a desktop for 5 years or more and use it for work it is very difficult to know the right way forward here, especially with everything going on in the world. I know I have to change my computer sooner or later, but speed is not the real issue here, it's software compatibility over the next 5 years.

I'd agree with that, but also add:

  • buy for 3 years, it's easier to not over-spend trying to make something last 5 plus years and have the computing landscape change in that time rendering your "investment" pointless.
  • buy what you think you need today and in the next 3 years (which will likely be pretty much the same as you need today unless you start doing some fancy new task)
If you get 5 years out of a machine you buy today - great! And you might do. But trying to predict the future that far out is difficult.

Spend less money, more frequently rather than trying to push hardware out for more years. All you're achieving by paying for performance today that you MIGHT need in the future is over-paying for hardware that will be far cheaper in 3-5 years time, if and when you do need that level of performance.

Plus, if you over spend today and the machine dies in year 3-4 of ownership, you're out of warranty and blew your money anyway. Plus you miss out on all the tech advances that aren't just performance related along the way. Like new IO standards, things like touchID, etc. as they are developed.
 
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Most of the people using Mac that I know dual boot, and they have to, something they can only use on Windows is always the reason. If you force them to make a choice, they won't pick Mac.

Or could be like me, get a Mac and PC... I am currently rocking 2012 MacBook Air and $399 HP Ryzen laptop. I can't express how much I love my Ryzen 3 based laptop.
 
The many thousands of folks who have had good experiences (including me) with Apple-refurbished products stand as testimony to rebut your claim above...

I think you given an unfair interpretation of my words. In my personal experience Macs developing problems at an early stage and requiring repairs have proven to be unreliable over the longterm. Not so long ago my daughter's new MacBook Pro suffered a logic board failure within 3 months and was repaired under warranty. Within 12 month just about everything imaginable had gone wrong with that machine, despite assurance from Apple that it would be perfect following the initial repair and it was just unlucky.

The computer I am using now is not my first Mac Pro. The original was repaired three times in the first few months before Apple replaced it with the current one that has run beautifully for years. On that basis and experiences with other Apple computers I wouldn't personally buy a refurbished machine, figuring I could be buying somebody else's reject and I don't have a much faith in Apple when it comes to repairs.

Something rather sad in all of this is that if I think back over 25 years the much cheaper Windows computers of various brands have all been mechanically reliable and that certainly hasn't been the case for me with Apple.
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I'd agree with that, but also add:

  • buy for 3 years, it's easier to not over-spend trying to make something last 5 plus years and have the computing landscape change in that time rendering your "investment" pointless.
  • buy what you think you need today and in the next 3 years (which will likely be pretty much the same as you need today unless you start doing some fancy new task)
If you get 5 years out of a machine you buy today - great! And you might do. But trying to predict the future that far out is difficult.

I think you make some good points that have merit. My point was more about the software though, since the current mini is already fast enough for me and likely to be so in 5 years. These days I am doing quite a bit of web design and the one thing you really want is longterm stability with your software with as few bugs as possible.

I agree that holding onto old hardware for too long doesn't always make sense and you see this as well in other areas from dishwashers to cameras. Technology moves at such a fast rate these days that buying something to last forever doesn't make a lot of sense.

A couple times I made the mistake of buying entry level machines and they were struggling after little more than a year, so at the very least most would benefit from a ram upgrade.
 
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For you and some others, 128gb is fine and will be for some time no doubt, but the reality is that the change in storage costs these days means that it makes no sense to keep providing 128gb whether it is needed or not.
It definitely makes sense. It costs more money, which is wasted.
 
It definitely makes sense. It costs more money, which is wasted.

No, it doesn't, that is the point. Manufacturing processes are more complex than simply thinking providing less of something must cost less.

Bottom line, you paid $799 for 128gb of storage, any buying now will pay $799 for 256gb, you are going to struggle to find many people that will complain about that.
 
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I just got mine today. I bought a i5/16/512 model. It came with 10.15.3, and I have no intention of upgrading it until 10.15.5 comes out. :). But I'll still wait a bit when 10.15.5 comes out to see how it goes with other people first.

FedEx though must not really have too many delivers right now. It shipped on Monday the 13th, Apple's website said it would be delivered on the 21st, the tracking info on FedEx's website said Thursday the 16th, and it ends up getting delivered this morning.
 
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