Should I just accept the fact that every 1-3 years, I have to pay 210 EUR to keep using my Mac?

[HailAlistair]

Summary: should I just pay Apple 210+ EUR every 1-3 years to get a new battery (that I don't use, and it swells up) and shut up?

Hi,

I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013). Every 1-3 years the battery swells, and apple asks me to pay 210 EUR (or more with servicing fee, I don't remember exactly) to basically keep using my Mac. Bought in late 2013, this is at least the third time that this happens, but it may actually be the fifth. (I am not sure, as the first few times they did it free, it was in warranty with AppleCare+).

Yes, I do keep it plugged-in all the time, and I sincerely don't want to keep plugging it and unplugging it. We use it mainly as a shared family computer and local server, it's on all the time, so it would be absurd to even try.

If keeping it plugged in all the times is such a problem for batteries, I don't understand why Apple doesn't offer an option to keep the battery charged at max 50-80% all the time, unless you ask otherwise (I think that Teslas cars do this). Or, at least, they could stop blocking third-party developers from developing such an option for macOS. I know that Catalina tries to be smart now with the battery, but I don't know how effective or smart it is. (https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT211094?cid=mc-ols-energy_saver-article_ht211094-macos_ui-04022020)

Yesterday I went to the Apple Store, they told me it is starting to swelling again and they can replace it for another 210+ EUR. I said that it's at least the third time and I would rather wait another year, since it has not swelled much for now, this time. They said ok. I complained about this being a recurring thing, they said that battery are consumable and not much else.

With the coronavirus impacting my finances and everything shutting down again, I'm basically now stuck with a swollen battery now, until I can spare 210 EUR and another trip to a repair center (2 hours+ round trip) or apple store (4 hours+ round trip), since I don't think they can do it by mail. iFixit even says that it's very dangerous (https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/What_to_do_with_a_swollen_battery), the Apple Store did not notice me of this.

Is this something I should just accept as an inevitable fact, given my use of this MacBook, in your opinion?

 

[Thirio2]

Just be careful the swollen battery doesn’t ruin your keyboard which is what ruined my 2010 mbp.

 

[simonmet]

Sorry to hear about your experiences @HailAlistair

A couple of things. Apple blocks such battery charge limiters from their App Store but they can't do so anywhere else, since macOS is still (thankfully) a not entirely closed, gated platform (the so called "walled garden"), unlike iOS. It has been trending that way for security reasons, but you're still entitled to run whichever third-party software you like.

There is a third-party charge limiter I can recommend that will do exactly as you want. The one I use is Al Dente, which is a menu bar application with a simple charge limiter function. Of course it needs a daemon (background process) that requires authentication to run on boot, but you need only allow it once. It's open-source and reliable. See: https://github.com/davidwernhart/AlDente/releases

As for your repairs and their charge. Which model of MacBook do you have and what is the cycle count of the battery that's exhibiting some swelling? You can find this in the System Report (accessible via About This Mac) under Power. Also, what does the condition say?

If the cycle count is not high, I think you have a strong case to argue that the battery has not performed or lasted as expected and promised. I agree completely that Apple's belated attempt at battery management is pathetic and it doesn't work (funny that, aye). They should be held accountable with further pressure applied to improve their battery health management and education to limit premature ageing and its associated costs and environmental impacts. Of course, in reality Apple will put profit ahead of the environment. They will improve their environmental policies and performance only when it's convenient and economical for them to do so (or they are otherwise forced) and then claim that they're driven by environmental concerns, which is rubbish. So that's why you should push for them to take on that economic cost of replacement to put pressure on them to improve their environmental performance, not just for you but for the many millions of MacBook users.

Tell them you thought Apple cared about the environment and that the battery should not be dying so soon, if indeed it hasn't lasted as expected. The batteries are supposed to be rated for 1000 cycles, which should last most people *at least* three years. So given what you've said, that indicates to me that the battery has indeed deteriorated far earlier than that.

 

[simonmet]

Hey @HailAlistair

I just noticed this encouraging post from the Al Dente GitHub. In it, a commentator writes:

"If you just rely on the built-in feature, which only reduces the charging level to 80-95% i think?, is not enough. The battery will get destroyed eventually. But if you use this app to adjust max charge to 50%, the battery will be perfectly healthy and in fact, my swollen battery returned to normal after doing this for several weeks, and the capacity even went back up a little bit. I thought I need to change the battery but now it seems unnecessary."

So if Apple doesn't play ball or it's on the upper end or over the 1000-cycle design capacity and you can't afford to replace it now or risk it worsening and damaging your computer, I recommend draining it 10 or 20%, let it rest for a couple of days, then limit its maximum charge to 50% until you can afford to have it replaced.

Also, I just looked at Apple's Battery Health feature's wording as of Catalina, and just like the iPhone throttlegate saga, rather than empowering the user to lengthen the usefulness of their devices, it seems entirely targeted towards decaying that user experience (to encourage upgrades presumably) while similarly reducing their liability for prematurely failed batteries. This is exactly what I expected and implied in my first reply to this thread when I was cynical about Apple's motivations and environmental credibility. It states:

"As your battery ages, peak capacity is reduced to extend battery lifespan."

Hardly the same as giving the user power to control maximum charging if and when they prefer to a level that will significantly increase the long-term health and capacity.

 

[tsrail]

Probably not an ideal suggestion, but what about a $10 HomeKit power plug adapter? You could set a schedule to cut the power (maybe overnight?). Combined with Mac battery settings (sleep mode after X hours/minutes on battery) you could ‘schedule’ a periodic battery drain/rest and then have it resume charging as well.

 

[RobbieTT]

Would buying a secondhand iMac or Mac mini and selling-on your troublesome MBP make more sense for you, or is occasional portability a must-have feature?

 

[Graham Caracas]

You're misusing a laptop as a desktop, so yes, accept the extra costs. Or get an iMac for the family and use the MBP as it's intended.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

Please, can someone explain to me why people buy MacBooks if they never unplug them? That doesn't make ANY sense to me.🤨

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013). Every 1-3 years the battery swells, and apple asks me to pay 210 EUR (or more with servicing fee, I don't remember exactly) to basically keep using my Mac.
Yes, I do keep it plugged-in all the time, and I sincerely don't want to keep plugging it and unplugging it. We use it mainly as a shared family computer and local server, it's on all the time, so it would be absurd to even try."

Since you're not willing to take the required steps to prevent the battery from over-charging and swelling up, then yes, you should keep paying every 1-3 years.

If you want to properly maintain the battery, you should do this:
- Once every couple of days, UNPLUG the MBP from the charger (or remove the charger from the wall outlet), and let the battery run down to 35-40%, then plug it back in.
- Each night (whether you power it down, or just let it sleep), again remove the charger plug from the wall. Put it back in when you boot up in the morning.

Doing the above will properly "exercise" the battery and keep it from swelling up due to overcharging it.

If you don't want to do it, well, that's your choice.
Then... you'll pay.

 

[Bustermd]

Yes you should expect it to be a cost of using it. The average life span of a computer is 3-5 years. You are in to year 7 now and should expect things to go wrong frankly, just like every other computer out there (this is most certainly NOT unique to Apple). Also, the way you are using it is a (huge) part of the problem. For the cost of a battery replacement you could probably get a few year old mac mini for the same purpose.

 

[Nbd1790]

Agreed. If you're getting replacements frequently, you put your money into the wrong product. Laptops are great for plugging into a home office setup (I do every day at some point) BUT I also use it as a laptop (no peripherals) and use it on the go. I have a 2015 MBP 15 inch, and the battery has only been replaced once which was done right before the Applecare expired. I spend about 5 or 6 hours a day / night plugged into my home office / studio set up.

If you're never unplugging, powering down etc, it's time to consider a desktop rig. Otherwise, yes. You will pay that premium every few years.

 

[jerryk]

BTW, this is not an Apple-only issue. I have several laptops from different manufacturers whose batteries are dead from leaving them plugged in all the time.

 

[sub150]

The only thing I would say is a cheaper option is to download some battery software that turns off the charging periodically so your laptop gets some cycles in it. Other than that, seems like a Mac Mini or iMac would be a better use of money like others have said. Maybe supplemented with an iPad?

 

[laz232]

You're misusing a laptop as a desktop, so yes, accept the extra costs. Or get an iMac for the family and use the MBP as it's intended.

Wrong answer. My ThinkPad from 2007 was able to set the LiIon max. charge level.

L

bona fides: Senior member IEEE, HW design engineer.

 

[retta283]

I will always recommend a desktop computer over a laptop if you are going to use them stationary. They represent much better value for screen size and performance. You're only paying extra for portability, which you don't need if you're using the laptop stationary anyway. Even buying a 21.5" iMac seems like a much better value than a MacBook if you'll be stationary.

On the issue of battery swelling, I think it is going to be a recurring issue. It's unfortunate you can't remove the battery easily anymore or this would be a nonissue. It is best to replace a swollen battery ASAP so it doesn't warp other components which will ruin the whole computer.

 

[Queen6]

Simple, Apple has changed from offering the customer the very best it could possibly design & manufacture to producing what's the most profitable and nickel & diming the customer's at every opportunity.

2014 13" MBP used heavily professionally for two years, now a home media server. Original battery is at 81.6% of capacity with just 168 cycles. Only time it's been unplugged from the mains in say the last four years is when we moved house. Vast majority of the batteries cycles being accumulated when I used if for work purpose.

2011 15" MBP again used heavily professionally for over two years, then used and abused by various members of the family including being plugged in continuously for months on end, potentially years as it too was used in a desktop roll. Original battery is at around 80% (varies on this one) with just 242 cycles in over nine years.

The trend continues with other old work MBP's that I've repurposed. Strange isn't it that Apple could design & produce batteries that have such longevity a decade ago or more...

2015 Retina MacBook was the first Mac I noticed with, shall I say a less than robust battery life/longevity, 2016 MBP continued and I seriously doubt even if Apple would touch these Mac's the replacement batteries would come remotely close to the original batteries longevity...

Q-6

 

[HailAlistair]

The only thing I would say is a cheaper option is to download some battery software that turns off the charging periodically so your laptop gets some cycles in it. Other than that, seems like a Mac Mini or iMac would be a better use of money like others have said. Maybe supplemented with an iPad?

I bought a MacBook Pro in late 2013 because I needed the portability then. I don't need the portability now, but I still have my MacBook Pro (obviously). So I am putting it to use as a shared family computer and local server.

 

[HailAlistair]

Sorry to hear about your experiences @HailAlistair

A couple of things. Apple blocks such battery charge limiters from their App Store but they can't do so anywhere else, since macOS is still (thankfully) a not entirely closed, gated platform (the so called "walled garden"), unlike iOS. It has been trending that way for security reasons, but you're still entitled to run whichever third party software you like.

There is a third-party charge limiter I can recommend that will do exactly as you want. The one I use is Al Dente, which is a menu bar application with a simple charge limiter function. Of course it needs a daemon (background process) that requires authentication to run on boot, but you need only allow it once. It's open source and reliable. See: https://github.com/davidwernhart/AlDente/releases

As for your repairs and their charge. Which model of MacBook do you have and what is the cycle count of the battery that's exhibiting some swelling? You can find this in the System Report (accessible via About This Mac) under Power. Also, what does the condition say?

View attachment 1569565

If the cycle count is not high, I think you have a strong case to argue that the battery has not performed or lasted as expected and promised. I agree completely that Apple's belated attempt at battery management is pathetic and it doesn't work (funny that, aye). They should be held accountable with further pressure applied to improve their battery health management and education to limit premature ageing and its associated costs and environmental impacts. Of course, in reality Apple will put profit ahead of the environment. They will improve their environmental policies and performance only when it's convenient and economical for them to do so (or they are otherwise forced) and then claim that they're driven by environmental concerns, which is rubbish. So that's why you should push for them to take on that economic cost of replacement to put pressure on them to improve their environmental performance, not just for you but for the many millions of MacBook users.

Tell them you thought Apple cared about the environment and that the battery should not be dying so soon, if indeed it hasn't lasted as expected. The batteries are supposed to be rated for 1000 cycles, which should last most people *at least* three years. So given what you've said, that indicates to me that the battery has indeed deteriorated far earlier than that.

Thank you A LOT for your detailed and thoughtful reply.

6 cycles.
2 years 7 days since manufacturing of the battery.
1 year 7 months 8 days since the battery was replaced by Apple the last time. (5 years after the Mac was bought)

Apple changed the battery at least another time (I have an email about a top case replacement, 3 years after the computer was bought).

The MacBook has been out of warranty (AppleCare+) for only 4 years 13 days, and this is at least the second time they ask me to pay 210 EUR.

EDIT:
I previously wrote 1 year 8 months. I was wrong, it's 1 year 7 months.

 

[HailAlistair]

Probably not an ideal suggestion, but what about a $10 HomeKit power plug adapter? You could set a schedule to cut the power (maybe overnight?). Combined with Mac battery settings (sleep mode after X hours/minutes on battery) you could ‘schedule’ a periodic battery drain/rest and then have it resume charging as well.

I like how you think. 😆 An homekit power plug is such a hack, and a fun solution. I'm going to try the GitHub application (AlDente) first, though. For the next battery I mean.

 

[philip_t]

Sorry to hear about your experiences @HailAlistair

A couple of things. Apple blocks such battery charge limiters from their App Store but they can't do so anywhere else, since macOS is still (thankfully) a not entirely closed, gated platform (the so called "walled garden"), unlike iOS. It has been trending that way for security reasons, but you're still entitled to run whichever third party software you like.

There is a third-party charge limiter I can recommend that will do exactly as you want. The one I use is Al Dente, which is a menu bar application with a simple charge limiter function. Of course it needs a daemon (background process) that requires authentication to run on boot, but you need only allow it once. It's open source and reliable. See: https://github.com/davidwernhart/AlDente/releases

As for your repairs and their charge. Which model of MacBook do you have and what is the cycle count of the battery that's exhibiting some swelling? You can find this in the System Report (accessible via About This Mac) under Power. Also, what does the condition say?

View attachment 1569565

If the cycle count is not high, I think you have a strong case to argue that the battery has not performed or lasted as expected and promised. I agree completely that Apple's belated attempt at battery management is pathetic and it doesn't work (funny that, aye). They should be held accountable with further pressure applied to improve their battery health management and education to limit premature ageing and its associated costs and environmental impacts. Of course, in reality Apple will put profit ahead of the environment. They will improve their environmental policies and performance only when it's convenient and economical for them to do so (or they are otherwise forced) and then claim that they're driven by environmental concerns, which is rubbish. So that's why you should push for them to take on that economic cost of replacement to put pressure on them to improve their environmental performance, not just for you but for the many millions of MacBook users.

Tell them you thought Apple cared about the environment and that the battery should not be dying so soon, if indeed it hasn't lasted as expected. The batteries are supposed to be rated for 1000 cycles, which should last most people *at least* three years. So given what you've said, that indicates to me that the battery has indeed deteriorated far earlier than that.

This is a truly excellent reply - I should add, because it is very important, poor battery life could be indicative of faulty power managment on the mother board. This is an expensive fix, especailly if undertaken by Apple - however, if you have AppleCare or a TP warranty that is not your problem. If you can prove a problem, and it may cost money to do that, that was present from purchase then you also have limited consumer rights across most of the EU for up to six years. Current battery technology does not last forever, but, among several Macs, I have 2010 MBP that is only on its second battery - that is what you should expect unless your usage profile is very unusual.

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

Just out of interest, why did you get a laptop if you use it exclusively as a desktop?

I’m sure you have good reasons, just wondering what they are.

 

[simonmet]

A battery shouldn't fail after 1 year even if it was left on charge for the entire period. €210 is a lot of money for a battery.

If they design the computer in such a way that other non-consumable components need to be replaced with the battery (or it's otherwise extremely difficult or impossible to replace the battery yourself) then that is further indicative of Apple's extremely anti-environmental and anti-consumer behaviour. There is no defending this behaviour.

Definitely question this and push for answers. I'd be very willing to help if you like. Just send me a PM or continue discussing it here.

 

[dolphind]

6 cycles.
2 years 7 days since manufacturing of the battery.
1 year 8 months 6 days ago since the battery was replaced by Apple the last time. (5 years after the Mac was bought)

Apple changed the battery at least another time (I have an email about a top case replacement, 3 years after the computer was bought).

The MacBook has been out of warranty (AppleCare+) for only 4 years 13 days, and this is at least the second time they ask me to pay 210 EUR.

hi
your macbook is out of warranty, but your battery is still covered under the european sale of goods act (https://europa.eu/youreurope/busine...s-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm)
(I am assuming you are european since you quoted the price in euros; forgive my error if that is not the case)

If the battery does not last for its minimum stated time - and from memory it was 3 years and/or 1000 cycles, whichever was the soonest, you are covered.

Even if that has changed (the details) it is a fair assumption these days that a battery should last at least 3 years, even if it does not perform at 100% for all of those three years. So, threaten them with the small claims court, or whatever your local version is called. Print out their page (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/mac/repair/service) and wave it at them saying not only does the battery not perform, but by not replacing it they are falsely advertising, so you will be looking at damages as well as costs.
good luck!

 

[bobnugget]

A battery shouldn't fail after 1 year even if it was left on charge for the entire period. €210 is a lot of money for a battery.

If they design the computer in such a way that other non-consumable components need to be replaced with the battery (or it's otherwise extremely difficult or impossible to replace the battery yourself) then that is further indicative of Apple's extremely anti-environmental and anti-consumer behaviour. There is no defending this behaviour.

Definitely question this and push for answers. I'd be very willing to help if you like. Just send me a PM or continue discussing it here.

Yep, they "need" to replace the entire top case/keyboard to replace the battery.

Just sent my work machine in for it, not so annoying for me as it was a 5 year old one with nearly 1000 cycles, and a previous user had dented the top case on it.

Interestingly, I think they are going to airmail it! I wouldn't want to be the pilot.

I'd be considering the EU consumer protection law / hassle if my battery only had a few cycles.

 

[jdurston]

My Dell work laptops (XPS 15 9560, and Precision 7720) both offer adaptive charging algorithms to limit charging when plugged in. You can manually select a primarily plugged in profile for the battery to float it's capacity in the upper mid range to extend it's life. This has been a Dell feature for almost a decade. Shame on Apple for not offering this on premium hardware.
Using a notebook plugged in is not abuse, this has been a solved problem for years, and the ball is not in the operators court on this one.
This is why my home computer is an iMac, desktops just have a longer service life.