Silicon-carbon batteries?

[chad.petree]

I've been wondering, are there restrictions on silicon-carbon battery capacity in the U.S. or Europe? Some Chinese phones pack over 6000mAh, but the international versions of the phones have to make do with smaller batteries, also they still lose to the iPhone 16 Pro Max in screen-on time. 🤔

Apple’s tight hardware-software integration gives them an edge in efficiency, sure, but not too long ago Android phones used brute-force aka bigger batteries and it worked, it doesn’t anymore.

What's your take on this?

 

[robvalentine]

There's a limit on battery capacity before it needs different shipping conditions as large batteries are counted as dangerous goods. Some brands, and power packs get around this by using more than 1 smaller cell.

 

[HouseLannister]

I've been wondering, are there restrictions on silicon-carbon battery capacity in the U.S. or Europe?

Yes. Shipments of about 5300+ mAh are considered dangerous goods and subject to additional restrictions. Some vendors get around this by having multiple cells, each less than the limit, totaling 6000 or more mAh. But having two battery cells in your phone requires additional engineering challenges and additional complications for repair. Also it’s less efficient, resulting in some power just being wasted.

Silicon Carbide batteries are denser, so they can be made thinner and vendors can more easily use multiple cells. However, there is real downside to SiC too. They lose battery health much more rapidly, so they only have an expected lifespan of 500-ish cycles. They also expand more as they age, so they may damage other interior components or, worse, rupture under the stress and start a battery fire.

For these reasons, you can see why big companies like Apple and Samsung have been hesitant to be early adopters on this technology. Also, it’s quite likely that if a big vendor started doing this as a dodge on dangerous goods regulations, the US and EU would just change the rules. Right now it is much smaller vendors, so they fly under the radar.

Why government red tape is draining your phone’s battery potential

Wondering why your phone’s battery is smaller in the US or EU? Here's how international shipping laws limit smartphone battery size — and why it matters.

www.androidauthority.com

 

[Bkdodger]

Hopefully we see some movement with this tech come across

 

[Technerd108]

Yes. Shipments of about 5300+ mAh are considered dangerous goods and subject to additional restrictions. Some vendors get around this by having multiple cells, each less than the limit, totaling 6000 or more mAh. But having two battery cells in your phone requires additional engineering challenges and additional complications for repair. Also it’s less efficient, resulting in some power just being wasted.

Silicon Carbide batteries are denser, so they can be made thinner and vendors can more easily use multiple cells. However, there is real downside to SiC too. They lose battery health much more rapidly, so they only have an expected lifespan of 500-ish cycles. They also expand more as they age, so they may damage other interior components or, worse, rupture under the stress and start a battery fire.

For these reasons, you can see why big companies like Apple and Samsung have been hesitant to be early adopters on this technology. Also, it’s quite likely that if a big vendor started doing this as a dodge on dangerous goods regulations, the US and EU would just change the rules. Right now it is much smaller vendors, so they fly under the radar.

Why government red tape is draining your phone’s battery potential

Wondering why your phone’s battery is smaller in the US or EU? Here's how international shipping laws limit smartphone battery size — and why it matters.

www.androidauthority.com

Very interesting information!

I had no idea of such a shorter recharge cycle life. That is pretty bad in comparison to Lithium Ion.

I couldn't figure out why Samsung more than Apple would not be adopting this new tech if it were really as good as it had been hyped up to be. It seems the only advantage to this battery tech is more on the side of the manufacturer and not the end user. I doubt any consumer if they knew the basic advantage is smaller size battery cell with the same power density or capacity of a physically larger Li ion cell but they get much less use with a shorter recharge life cycle. So your phone might weigh a but less and be a bit thinner and they OEM could get by some regulations on Lithium Ion batteries but you might only get a couple years out of it before needing replacement and a larger risk of battery deformation.

The battery tech we currently have is both great and a serious handicap. Most rechargeable battery technologies use a lot of mining intensive heavy metals and the charging of these batteries os often done through the use of municipal power supplies that use oil, coal, and gas as a source of power. They have limited life spans and deteriorate over their lifespan.

I was under the impression that the higher density of Silicon Carbide would translate into higher capacity and higher longevity in a smaller package. Since it reduces longevity for density I don't think it is any better than the current tech we are already using which is why Samsung and Apple have so far avoided using it.

 

[chad.petree]

Yes. Shipments of about 5300+ mAh are considered dangerous goods and subject to additional restrictions. Some vendors get around this by having multiple cells, each less than the limit, totaling 6000 or more mAh. But having two battery cells in your phone requires additional engineering challenges and additional complications for repair. Also it’s less efficient, resulting in some power just being wasted.

Silicon Carbide batteries are denser, so they can be made thinner and vendors can more easily use multiple cells. However, there is real downside to SiC too. They lose battery health much more rapidly, so they only have an expected lifespan of 500-ish cycles. They also expand more as they age, so they may damage other interior components or, worse, rupture under the stress and start a battery fire.

For these reasons, you can see why big companies like Apple and Samsung have been hesitant to be early adopters on this technology. Also, it’s quite likely that if a big vendor started doing this as a dodge on dangerous goods regulations, the US and EU would just change the rules. Right now it is much smaller vendors, so they fly under the radar.

Why government red tape is draining your phone’s battery potential

Wondering why your phone’s battery is smaller in the US or EU? Here's how international shipping laws limit smartphone battery size — and why it matters.

www.androidauthority.com

I didn't know that the lifespan of silicon-carbon batteries was that bad, so we'd have to have them exchange after 1.5 years? :/

 

[HouseLannister]

MKBHD was discussing it on the Waveform podcast a week or so ago. They said they would rather have great battery life for 2 years with SiC than average battery life for 4 years with a Li-ion battery. Just not sure if many manufacturers think their customers are like MKBHD. SiC batteries also reportedly charge slower as they age due to increased resistance. So using the phone beyond 2 years might get frustrating for some. But you could just replace the battery at the 2 year mark, right? However, that battery expansion risk might mean that's not possible due to internal components getting damaged. Hard to tell for sure. Not a lot of case study yet since this is new tech.

Now if you have a 6000+ mAh battery, you may put less cycles on your phone since you are charging it less often. So it could last a long time if you are a moderate user. (But once larger batteries become mainstream, I think the power consumption of the chips and screens and modems might just rise to match this as a new norm. That's just the way these things tend to play out.)

Also keep in mind this is early tech. It wasn’t too many years ago that a Li-ion battery was supposed to have a 500 cycle lifespan, and now most of them promise 1000. My Z Fold 7 specs say it will keep 80% charge for 2000 cycles, which is very nice. SiC batteries will get there in time.

Good read here:

Should you buy a phone with a silicon-carbon battery? Here's the catch

Silicon carbon Li-ion batteries are found in an increasing number of today's smartphones, but should you buy one? Here are the pros and cons.

www.androidauthority.com