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alectrona6400

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 1, 2019
223
120
so it's been a while since I've done an attempted 7450 swap into a pre-DA G4, and i haven't done this one yet. merely an idea which i thought about... i have 2 single processor G4 cards from quicksilver systems and i have one clocked at 867MHz without L3 cache. i thought i could modify the card to fit in a cube and tap 12V off of the HDD connector to that one screw area on the card. i also may install a fan, speaking of which: what fan would i need that will fit in and also connect without a modification? i know the G4 cube does have an area to where you can install a fan.
 
I think you're in for a lot of modification to get that to work; but I wish you luck. It would be a nice feat and interesting to see.
 
Honestly, I am a bit weary doing this. However, it could be somewhat more viable as there's not an IDE connector ruining my hopes and dreams. I think the capacitors may not fit in either and I will also need to adjust the induction coils... hopefully this time I don't kill a card by accident but with one of these L3-less single CPU cards I'm sure no one would care that much. LOL

Also, my other concern is processor support. I don't think the cube will boot a 7450 by default.
 
The other thing I have concerns about is the VRM. I've heard about the many changes between a 7450 and a 7400/7410, especially the fact that it runs much hotter. Does anyone have any details on what the VRM can take in the cube? I may even just get a new VRM if someone even still has one. I'm planning for the system to still run Mac OS 9 yet also run a somewhat better processor...? I also heard that the 7450 is slower at certain clocks than a 7400 or 7410. I did observe this with the 800MHz card experiment I did on a Sawtooth G4 (and regret BADLY) where a 900MHz 7450 ran slower than a 500MHz 7400. To be fair, the 7400 was a dual CPU variant (as was the 7450, but only one processor seemed to have worked) so that could be it.
 
The cube will run a 7450 or 7455 fine. Apple intentionally crippled the firmware for later CPUs like the 7447, 7457, and 7448. You can patch the firmware for these to work though, which is how the various aftermarket CPUs work in the Cube.

Yes, the VRM can be a limitation for running high power CPUs. There is plenty of info on this, as well as aftermarket VRMs.

Yes, at the same clock the 7450 is slower than the 7400. Check out barefeats for benchmarks of systems from that era, notably the 533MHz digital audio vs the 733MHz version.
 
The cube will run a 7450 or 7455 fine. Apple intentionally crippled the firmware for later CPUs like the 7447, 7457, and 7448. You can patch the firmware for these to work though, which is how the various aftermarket CPUs work in the Cube.

Yes, the VRM can be a limitation for running high power CPUs. There is plenty of info on this, as well as aftermarket VRMs.

Yes, at the same clock the 7450 is slower than the 7400. Check out barefeats for benchmarks of systems from that era, notably the 533MHz digital audio vs the 733MHz version.
Quite interesting. I was mainly interested in the fact that the 7450 had some advancements over the 7400/7410 which could make a couple things faster. (which could be better optimized for the 7450 if possible?)

And yes, the cache runs at full speed on the 7450 whereas it runs at half speed on the 7400/7410 chips, but the 7450 has effectively LESS cache than a 7400/7410 card. The pipeline appears to be longer (not sure by how much, but it was almost 2x longer if i recall correctly) which could cause instructions to take more time.

I also heard that some QS cards use the 7455... which was merely a revision of the 7450. Same transistor count, same manufacturing node, different scaling. Maybe it has something different internally that does not relate to the clock speed, but I am not sure.

My other concern is L3 cache.... which may or may not work. The failed AGP>QS experiment didn't detect any L3 cache whatsoever, and I am afraid the cube may not detect it either. To be fair, that card was pretty broken, even before I started modding it. Seems like these later dual G4s just have a fair share of issues. I even had a 1.25GHz dual MDD card just... fry itself upon starting up when NO mods were made. The chips oozed out a weird brown liquid in a very small quantity, and I called it quits from there. As with the experiment I did a year and a half ago, I will never forget that Curb Your Enthusiasm reply.

With all this in mind, I have thought of quite a complicated project. I might get some complaints in, but hey... I was born to modify hardware, especially old PowerPC macs that could have much better potential. I even got a 2005 eMac to run at 1.92GHz and it's still rock stable! Plan to put an SSD in and install z970's Sorbet Leopard.

...Or I might just end up slapping a dual 500MHz 7400 G4 in this thing. With a fan, of course. The computer works great and I even managed to put a Radeon 7500 from a QS2002 in here. Fancy having Quartz on a cube!
 
So the 7450 seemingly gets up to either 800 or 850 stable on a 100MHz bus. I overclocked a 700MHz iMac G4 to 900 and it was very unstable. Went down to 800 and now I have myself a cheap top-end 15" iMac G4 from NEARLY 20 years ago. So if I were to put a 7450 single QS card in a G4 cube, I'm sure I would run it at 800. The goal here is to find an effective way to upgrade the Cube's CPU without having to shell out for a dual G4 card or an aftermarket CPU card. I'd imagine i WILL have to pay an arm and a leg for even a set of G4 cube parts for testing...

And yes, I WILL need to get a fan. I am 100% sure the heatsink will cook an egg with a 7450 fanless.
 
I'd imagine i WILL have to pay an arm and a leg for even a set of G4 cube parts for testing...

Yes, I imagine you would need to have a Cube if you want to put a different CPU into one. So your project sounds pretty theoretical at this point...
 
i do have a 500MHz cube however, might try it with that. just unsure if anything will blow up but there will only be one way to find out! XD
 
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