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Sony vs Canon

M

margot

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 10, 2008
16
0
I have to purchase an HD camcorder for a client. I'm looking at the Canon Vixia HF M41 or the Sony HDR-CX360V.

Does anyone know if either of these has a connection out to Firewire so that I can edit it on my Macs? My older camcorder has a DV out, so I use as DV to Firewire cable.

But I can't decipher the newer specs and have to order asap AND I need it to port out to firewire. HELP ME, please...even if someone can tell me what connection to look for!

Both have mini-HDMI...is that something I could use?

Thanks in advance,

Margot
 
Why the need for Firewire? HD consumer camcorders don't use tapes, thus USB is good enough for transferring footage, which will be transcoded by the editing application anyway.
 
Neither has Firewire. Firewire was used for transfer of tape-based footage.

AVCHD-camcorders are all file-based and use USB.

You should take a few steps back and familiarise yourself with an HD camcorder and whatever NLE you use on your Mac, then ask which camcorder is better for someone else.

It would be useful to post the client's budget, intended use, accessories they already own, expectations they have, NLE, Mac model and specs.

Both have mini-HDMI...is that something I could use?
Click to expand...
No.
 
Canon vs. Sony

Client's budget is only $800 for the camera. I'm a graphic designer/photographer freelancer, this is a 15 year+ corporate client. Even tho' I take stills only they are pressing me to buy and shoot video.

I did rent an older Canon HD for a mini-shoot. That was tape which I could import easily to my iMac using the DV to Firewire cable. My MacBook Pro did not recognize it, for who-knows-what reason.

Really, I don't care what the connections are...I only care that I can import into one of my Macs. I've spent hours and hours searching on the internet, some say Canon and/or Sony will no way work with a Mac, others say it was a no-brainer.

Unfortunately, I'm on a tight deadline. I'm only shooting on a tripod and I did ok with the rental. I figured out how to use hi-end wireless XLR lav mics--lifted the audio out, cleaned it out and synced it back perfectly. Cropped, trimmed, color corrected the video, great output.

So I'm not concerned about my ability to shoot the video or get great audio [well, I am, but I have no choice]. I just need to know if one or both of these cameras will work with a Mac, and how.

If not, any recommendations would be great for HD with internal storage [preferably flash, not tape or hard drive] in the $800 range.

I'm running Mac OS X v10.6.7. These are product demonstrations in a commercial test kitchen [that's why there was still some noise on the lavs].

I know that both cameras have HDMI and USB2 output...I've just read so many articles that say Mac won't recognize a camera via USB.

I would appreciate any help anyone could give. I have tried my best to research the cameras but have hit a dead end and have to order tomorrow.

Thanks, Margot
 
margot said:
I did rent an older Canon HD for a mini-shoot. That was tape which I could import easily to my iMac using the DV to Firewire cable. My MacBook Pro did not recognize it, for who-knows-what reason
Click to expand...

The most likely reason was that you didn't have your NLE set right for HDV capture. You cannot use the same settings that you did for regular DV recordings. Which NLE app are you using and what version is it? By the way a DV to Firewire cable is just a Firewire cable. Firewire is a trade name which is also called DV, iLink (Sony) and its official name is IEEE1394. The Firewire ports on cameras could use any of those names and it's all the same thing.

margot said:
Really, I don't care what the connections are
Click to expand...

You should. The type of connection matters when capturing or importing. To be honest with you, it really sounds like you might be better off sub-contracting the video aspect of this job out to someone that knows what they're doing and not risk pissing off a 15 year client.

As simsaladimbamba already pointed out, Firewire is used for capturing from tape. But there aren't many tape-based camcorders being made these days. The current trend is recording to memory cards in the camera, then importing the recorded files to your NLE. Essentially you transfer the files to your computer - it could be with the card still in the camera using a USB cable, or with a card reader attached to your Mac via USB or Firewire, depending on the specific card reader model you use.

Note that the import process is different than the capture process. Again, "capturing" is the term used only for tape recordings while "importing" is the term used for non-tape recordings. And depending on which NLE app you're using, some of the card based recording formats might have to be converted prior to importing so it can be edited.

-DH
 
Thanks anyway...

As I said, I can shoot and edit the video and audio. I'm just trying to make sure the camera I buy will import to my computers.

The clients had professional sub-contractors, they want me to do it now.

I'm not going to jeopardize the relationship because I don't know the name of the connector(s).

I was just looking for some help. I'm sure the guys at B&H or Adorama can help me tomorrow.

Thanks anyway.
 
Any reason not to go with a good DSLR like the Canon T3i or Canon T2i? Both do amazing video and have a mic input. And since you already have photography experience a DSLR will be comfortable for you.
 
Canon should work fine

I didn't want to go through the whole thread, but I looked up the Canon camera at CNET and it outputs in AVCHD format. Many newer (SD card) cameras use that format. (I have a Panasonic that does.)

It works fine with Final Cut Pro. You can connect the camera to your Mac via USB cable and use the Log and Transfer function of FCP to bring in everything on an SD (or SDHC) card or just the clip(s) or portions of each that you want.

Alternatively, you can copy the entire SD card contents to a directory on your Mac and do the same thing as above.

Good luck.
 
margot said:
As I said, I can shoot and edit the video and audio. I'm just trying to make sure the camera I buy will import to my computers.
The clients had professional sub-contractors, they want me to do it now.
I'm not going to jeopardize the relationship because I don't know the name of the connector(s).
I was just looking for some help. I'm sure the guys at B&H or Adorama can help me tomorrow.
Thanks anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you've given us one shot and less than 24 hours to help you, and the last thing I want to do is say "get the Canon" only to have you back next week saying "how does this thing work, where do I plug it in?". Comments like "Really, I don't care what the connections are..." make me want to speak more cautiously, not less.

For example, your wireless mics have XLR plugs. Neither of the cameras have XLR inputs. Can you reconcile this? I know some people who could understand the problem and figure out a solution because that's the kind of people they are, and I know some people who would run screaming from the room. You're somewhere on that line, but I haven't really had time to find out where.

For what it's worth, if a long-term client is willing to ditch a long-term graphic designer/photographer over something like this, it doesn't sound like a continuing relationship anyway. If they are OK with ditching the professional video outfit and handing off that work to a graphic designer, next year the boss's son will be making them brochures with Publisher and shooting their pics with his iPhone.

I'd like to help more, but even Jack Bauer had 24 hours.
 
Canon vs. Sony

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Just wanted some help.

I used the BeachTek adapter for the XLR wireless lav mics.
 
Last edited:
Re: DSLR [Cruleworld]

Yes, my next camera will be a Canon 7D. But my client wants their own consumer HD camcorder and I have been tasked with buying one yesterday, even though they know this is not my area of expertise.

At their request/demand, I did rent a Canon HV20 with sennheiser wireless lav mics for a mini-shoot. As I turned out a product that they felt rivaled the high priced pros they were using, with a faster turnaround, guess what? The biggest challenge was getting the audio right.

Now I'm under the gun.

I've been prowling the boards/reviews/test videos so at least I know what to ask the guys at B&H. They're extremely knowledgable. Plus, I'm running Windows in a VM if I have to use it, and a little-used Windows machine on my desktop. i just didn't want to go there.

This is for simple, 1 camera product demos. They will have to use pros for the 2 camera shoots, obviously.

Again, thanks for the helpful comments.

Margot
 
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Macs suck at avchd

MAC is not that good at AVCHD ...All the fans will rave and snare and threaten about it but it is true. Imovie compression is horrible at AVCHD and the video quality is poor, you will only notice it when you play the photage back on a REAL television and not a computer monitor. If you have no other choice then try Adobe line of video editing products they are very expensive but do edit AVCHD nativelly on MAC's and does a fairlly good job at it.
 
Don't know if you've already made a purchase, but it looks like the Sony could accept a remote zoom control through its AV/R jack, whereas the Canon does not appear to have a remote zoom jack.

Personally, all other things being equal (which, of course, they rarely are), I would go with a camcorder which would allow the use of a remote zoom control. Even if you don't have one now, it would be nice to have the option later. (Studio1 Productions makes an adapter for this, which I don't have and haven't used: http://www.studio1productions.com/lanc-sa.htm .) ... It does appear that both the Canon and Sony you're considering have an external mic input and headphone out jack, so that's a wash.

OTOH, I have used a Canon HF S200 (older-model flash HD camcorder) with a Mac using FCP without any problem. Haven't used any Sony consumer-grade flash-based camcorders with FCP yet.

Good luck.
 
margot said:
I know that both cameras have HDMI and USB2 output...I've just read so many articles that say Mac won't recognize a camera via USB.
Click to expand...

One has to wonder what dated crap you are reading.


martinX said:
Yeah, you've given us one shot and less than 24 hours to help you...

but even Jack Bauer had 24 hours.
Click to expand...

The whole post, so well said.


margot said:
But my client wants their own consumer HD camcorder and I have been tasked with buying one yesterday, even though they know this is not my area of expertise.
Click to expand...

As a contractor you are responsible to tell the client that this isn't your expertise and it will take bloody time to do some proper research. In other words, grow some fortitude and man up, as they say. Follow basic ethics.
 
margot said:
Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Just wanted some help.
Click to expand...
You haven't offended anyone, but you're making it hard to help you. We still don't have any idea of your Macs, your NLE, or your additional equipment.

I used the BeachTek adapter for the XLR wireless lav mics.
Click to expand...
We don't know if you own this gear or rent it.

If you wanted to stay in your comfort zone (with tapes and firewire) you could get a Canon tape-based HDV camcorder like the Vixia HV40. The advantages are that you know the workflow and even though tapes may be "on the way out", it's easy to shoot a tape, capture it and then stick the tape on the shelf for an instant archive. A business has different priorities to a home user and archiving may be important to them, rather than having flash cards all over the place. It also has a 3.5mm mic in terminal.

Disadvantage: no-one knows how FCP X will handle "log and capture". That is yet to be divined. Still, it would work right here, right now for only $649. Change for a spare battery.
 
Go here to help identify if a camera/camcorder will work in iMovie 11.....
http://help.apple.com/imovie/cameras/en/index.html?lang=en_US.
If your working with AVCHD, iMovie will convert to AIC. If you have a good camcorder, the picture looks good on a LCD tv. It will not be as clear as if your viewing from the camcorder. Anytime a conversion takes place, a loss of quality happens, depending on codec. Hopefully, the new Final Cut coming out will edit native AVCHD, according to the press release. Should be out this fall.
 
Cruleworld said:
Any reason not to go with a good DSLR like the Canon T3i or Canon T2i? Both do amazing video and have a mic input. And since you already have photography experience a DSLR will be comfortable for you.
Click to expand...

No offense, but that would be a terrible recommendation. While she has experience shooting still photography, it's evident that the video experience is far less. Videowise, DSLRs require much more skill (and possibly budget) than the dedicated video cameras already mentioned in this thread.
 
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