[split] Mac vs PC - security, MHz myth, etc.

[spercharged69]

This thread and threads like it is why Mac users on the internet as a group appear to be so retarded to the outside world. I just hope as Apple becomes more and more popular that these forums become filled with normal people, rather than radical Apple fanatics who post that they're physically ill over a PC that resembles a Mac Mini.

You guys are just pissed off that the Intel box will cost less and be twice as fast, per standard operating procedure in the PC world... And this, somehow will damage you emotionally because as a complete Apple fanboy you have deep rooted emotional and egotistical ties to all things APPLE.

Yuck! Both the Mini and that Optiplex things are UGLY! I can't understand how it is the PC world, even when they have something beautiful to copy their design from, can really make a PC look like crap.

Good god, pull your head out of your ass. PC's have ALWAYS been about function over form. ALWAYS. Dell's president Michael Dell has stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN that he's not interested in innovation, just providing the world with low cost PC's that work. Windows users DO NOT CARE what the box under their desk looks like. Why would they? To your average person a computer, PC or Mac is just a way to get online, read some web sites, and communicate with coworkers and family members.

Most normal people only acknowledge Apple, or Dell as the company they bought their computer from, not as a demigod worthy of constructing shrines, and spending massive amounts of free time defending on internet message boards.

 

[rtdgoldfish]

This thread and threads like it is why Mac users on the internet as a group appear to be so retarded to the outside world. I just hope as Apple becomes more and more popular that these forums become filled with normal people, rather than radical Apple fanatics who post that they're physically ill over a PC that resembles a Mac Mini.

You guys are just pissed off that the Intel box will cost less and be twice as fast, per standard operating procedure in the PC world... And this, somehow will damage you emotionally because as a complete Apple fanboy you have deep rooted emotional and egotistical ties to all things APPLE.



Good god, pull your head out of your ass. PC's have ALWAYS been about function over form. ALWAYS. Dell's president Michael Dell has stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN that he's not interested in innovation, just providing the world with low cost PC's that work. Windows users DO NOT CARE what the box under their desk looks like. Why would they? To your average person a computer, PC or Mac is just a way to get online, read some web sites, and communicate with coworkers and family members.

Most normal people only acknowledge Apple, or Dell as the company they bought their computer from, not as a demigod worthy of constructing shrines, and spending massive amounts of free time defending on internet message boards.

Thank you!!! I totally agree. Stop b****ing about Apple being copied. Of course they will be copied. If they have a product that everyone likes, then every other company out there will try to copy it.

 

[dsharits]

You guys are just pissed off that the Intel box will cost less and be twice as fast, per standard operating procedure in the PC world... And this, somehow will damage you emotionally because as a complete Apple fanboy you have deep rooted emotional and egotistical ties to all things APPLE.

The companies will only make the general public think that it is faster by putting in a 2 GHz Pentium 4 (WOW! .75 GHz faster!!) and using the MHz Myth as they always do. They will make them think that it's more affordable by making it only $399, but not including the price of the antivirus subscriptions, the popup blockers and all of the other crap that makes PC's at least usable. Plus the fact that it is running Windows subtracts from the value. As far as being tied to all things Apple, we just want hardware and software that works for the user, and does not require the user to work for the machine.

Good god, pull your head out of your ass. PC's have ALWAYS been about function over form. ALWAYS. Dell's president Michael Dell has stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN that he's not interested in innovation, just providing the world with low cost PC's that work. Windows users DO NOT CARE what the box under their desk looks like. Why would they? To your average person a computer, PC or Mac is just a way to get online, read some web sites, and communicate with coworkers and family members.

Obviously Michael Dell is concerned about function over form, but he has achieved neither. It is the average person that you speak of that is being shafted by Microsoft and being told that all he needs to do is web surfing and email. The average person doesn't realize that computers can do much, much more than that, because Windows won't allow them to. Beyond playing a few games and websurfing (without IE, I might add), Windows is just a cheap (quality, not price) excuse for a copy of a real working OS. Dell is one of the biggest criminals in this case, because they are the primary ones pushing these piece of crap bargain specials to the general public. They mask the crappiness of it by saying stuff like, "Buy a new Dimension desktop with a blazing 2 GHz Intel Celeron processor, and we'll give you a free CD burner upgrade!" Please. Of course outdated technology will be lower cost, except for Windows XP, which is way behind on the times, but still expensive. Free CD burner upgrade! Wow! You can't get a Mac with anything less than a combo drive.

Most normal people only acknowledge Apple, or Dell as the company they bought their computer from, not as a demigod worthy of constructing shrines, and spending massive amounts of free time defending on internet message boards.

We only recognize Apple as the company that revolutionized the computer industry (and continues to do so), only to be ripped off by blatant copies like this piece of crap from Intel. And this "free time" that we spend here is the time that the PC guys are using to defrag their hard drives and scan for viruses.

Daniel

 

[spercharged69]

The companies will only make the general public think that it is faster by putting in a 2 GHz Pentium 4 (WOW! .75 GHz faster!!) and using the MHz Myth as they always do. They will make them think that it's more affordable by making it only $399, but not including the price of the antivirus subscriptions, the popup blockers and all of the other crap that makes PC's at least usable. Plus the fact that it is running Windows subtracts from the value.

I know you refuse to believe it, but Apple does not make the fastest computers in the world. The "Mhz Myth" is nothing more than a brilliant scheme thought up by Apple marketing to explain why PC's are always so much faster than Macs. This is the fact of the matter, from working with and using both Macs and PC's. I wish you people would stop using this argument and realize it's the software that drives people to Apple, not their pathetic hardware.

I'm not sure if you need to get your calculator calibrated or what, but $400 is less than $500. To your average PC user who just wants to forward funny chain letters, the lack of a CD burner of a non-issue. The operating system its using doesn't detract from the value if you look at it from a logical sense rather than the "LOL M$ GET IT M DOLLAR SIGN LIKE ALL OF BILL GATES MONEY" MacRumors logic that no matter what Windows sucks. You can get great virus scanners, like Avast or AVG for free. FireFox solves almost all of the 'popup blocker' issues.

I recommend doing some research before posting in the future.

And this "free time" that we spend here is the time that the PC guys are using to defrag their hard drives and scan for viruses.

Right. Again, do some research before posting.

This is what makes Apple fanatics look so stupid. They default to old arguments consisting of little more than "LOL M$ LOL WINXP SPYWARE VIRUSES DEFRAG HAHAHA M$" which completely invalidates any credibility.

Give me a break.

 

[BakedBeans]

io burns - i must agree with you, that patronising tone you use must mean your really clever, although a lot of what you say is categorically incorrect

"you can get some great anti virus software"

lol, yep - you cant on Mac though, nevermind we dont need them,

i love the "windows machines are always so much faster - lol

maybe its YOU that need to do your research


ps. just because you have used both Macs and wintels it doesnt mean you know more than anyone else

 

[spercharged69]

www.avast.com Avast's free virus scanner catches more and is regarded as better than any paid solution in the PC world. OSX will become target to much worse threats in the future than viruses, as soon as OSX becomes anywhere near main stream to make it worthwhile for anyone who is up to no good to target it, we're going to be seeing remote exploits and root kits left and right... I promise. Right now we have the advantage of being such a small percentage that any egomaniac hacker would rather spend his time gaining notoriety in their windows world where whatever virus or worm they release can effect millions more people.

And I'm sorry you refuse to take off your rose colored glasses in regards to the speed differences in Macs and PC's. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

 

[Timelessblur]

I might like to state that it been shown that defraging does really matter in a NTFS formated hard drive (and a NT based os which is required any how.)

Apple uses think that Windows users have to do all this stuff all the time. Scanning for spy ware, scaning for virus or dealing with virus. In truth the apple user are pretty much dead wrong. As for defraging I have not defrag Windows in months, Virus scans are general automaticed to be done once a week and when the computer is not in use. Spyware scans only need to be done maybe once a month and it can also be automaticed done at night and every so offen. Virus are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be and general are not ramped as people say. If I remeber right that last time my parents computer found a virus was I want to say over a year ago and that when I was looking though the logs and it was the autodecetec that found in a file that my sister got from a friend. They are you average user. when I go home I do some system maninitec on it. Last time I did anything to it was over Christmas and it really did not need much from August. Next time it I will do anything to it will be may. All in all 2 times a year of minor things it about all it needs and even then it could get away not doing. I dont think I defrag the computer in 2 years. Last time it was defrag was after I reformated it to install XP on it.

Problems the family computer has mostly can be traced back to it age it being 4.5 years old is starting to show and the complaints I have to deal with are speed issue from my mom because she used a new computer at work and she used my computer which is a more high end computer.

The average person saying macs are the way to go they dont have this *list* of problems is more ingoranted that the average person who says macs have this *list* of problems. But it is treads like this that mac Mac Fanitic look like idoits

 

[Yvan256]

I know you refuse to believe it, but Apple does not make the fastest computers in the world. The "Mhz Myth" is nothing more than a brilliant scheme thought up by Apple marketing to explain why PC's are always so much faster than Macs. This is the fact of the matter, from working with and using both Macs and PC's. I wish you people would stop using this argument and realize it's the software that drives people to Apple, not their pathetic hardware.

Well, the MHz myth is real, but so are the numbers. I'm not even talking about PC vs Mac here, I'm talking Intel vs AMD. I've said it a lof of times in many forums, but I'll repeat it briefly here for the sake of the argument.

I'm running the "World Community Grid Agent" on my Windows XP PC. My CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2400+. According to the agent, an Intel Pentium 4 @ 1.5GHz scores "100". My Athlon "2400+" sure isn't clocked at 2.4GHz, it's AMD marketing to make sure people compare their CPU to a Pentium 4 at 2.4GHz.

My CPU runs, in fact, at 1.92GHz. Wow, a huge 508MHz below the marketing speak. But how does it compare, in pure computing power? According to the WCG agent, my computer CPU score is 192.

Intel Pentium 4 @ 1.5GHz = 100
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 1.92GHz = 192

That means my Athlon is 1.5 times faster than a Pentium 4 for the same clock speed. That's the MHz myth at work. But in reverse. My lower-clocked CPU really IS faster than a faster-clocked CPU. Even when staying in x86-land.

I'm not sure if you need to get your calculator calibrated or what, but $400 is less than $500. To your average PC user who just wants to forward funny chain letters, the lack of a CD burner of a non-issue. The operating system its using doesn't detract from the value if you look at it from a logical sense rather than the "LOL M$ GET IT M DOLLAR SIGN LIKE ALL OF BILL GATES MONEY" MacRumors logic that no matter what Windows sucks. You can get great virus scanners, like Avast or AVG for free. FireFox solves almost all of the 'popup blocker' issues.

This is what makes Apple fanatics look so stupid. They default to old arguments consisting of little more than "LOL M$ LOL WINXP SPYWARE VIRUSES DEFRAG HAHAHA M$" which completely invalidates any credibility.

Give me a break.

Can't agree more. After all, if they say "well a 400$ PC needs a 100$ virus scanner" then PC users are also right when they say "well a 500$ Mac needs a 50$ keyboard+mouse". You can't use arguments and then prevent the other side from using it.

As far as Windows goes, my XP box is behind a rooter/firewall, I use Opera, Trillian, webmail/eudora, don't run all the executable files I find, play it safe.

I don't even have an anti-virus on my computer. Yes, even on XP. Call me crazy but after about 14 months my box is still 100% clean.

Regular users aren't so lucky, though. I don't know if anyone remember me telling about this guy who had his internet connection cancelled because of viruses and stuff?

Well, I saw him again yesterday. He sold the "damn PC".

Not all PCs are full of viruses and have pop-up problems and defrag needs. But in some cases, it's another horror story after another.

 

[Yvan256]

www.avast.com Avast's free virus scanner catches more and is regarded as better than any paid solution in the PC world. OSX will become target to much worse threats in the future than viruses, as soon as OSX becomes anywhere near main stream to make it worthwhile for anyone who is up to no good to target it, we're going to be seeing remote exploits and root kits left and right... I promise. Right now we have the advantage of being such a small percentage that any egomaniac hacker would rather spend his time gaining notoriety in their windows world where whatever virus or worm they release can effect millions more people.

The day I begin to worry about such things on the Mac is the day the same thing happens to BSD and Linux users.

 

[Mav451]

..snip..
Most normal people only acknowledge Apple, or Dell as the company they bought their computer from, not as a demigod worthy of constructing shrines, and spending massive amounts of free time defending on internet message boards.

Lol, that is just too much. Puahaha

 

[spercharged69]

The day I begin to worry about such things on the Mac is the day the same thing happens to BSD and Linux users.

Oh I agree, BSD and Linux are much more secure and will have far fewer issues. Finding security flaws in *nix operating systems is like finding a needle in a haystack. Right now, no one really wants to bother looking through the OSX haystack, but as OSX becomes more and more popular, and the notoriety in finding that needle grows larger, more and more people will be looking for it.

Someone will find them, maybe not anytime soon, but the logic of "I AM COMPLETELY PROTECTED FROM ALL THAT IS BAD BECAUSE I RUN OSX!!!" is flawed, in my opinion. It's software written by humans, even the best of us make mistakes and leave doors open once in a while. All OSX needs is enough mainstream attention before those mistakes are discovered.

 

[Rower_CPU]

[...]
All OSX needs is enough mainstream attention before those mistakes are discovered.

Not quite.

OS X "security through obscurity" myth

 

[tech4all]

They should remove that silly clock though

Is that what that thing is on the front of that Intel computer? I thought it was a price tag or something

I wish you people would stop using this argument and realize it's the software that drives people to Apple, not their pathetic hardware.

You call Apple's hardware pathetic? Well according to some reviews Macs have a much less repair rate (which means good hardware) compared to PCs. A simple Google search for Mac repair history turns up these results: Here and here to name a few (which are both about Consumer Reports' higher ratings with Mac laptops). According to those sites and reviews, Apple hardware is anything but pathetic.

 

[spercharged69]

You call Apple's hardware pathetic? Well according to some reviews Macs have a much less repair rate (which means good hardware) compared to PCs. A simple Google search for Mac repair history turns up these results: Here and here to name a few. According to those sites and reviews, Apple hardware is anything but pathetic.

My brand new, $3000 17" PowerBook, running an operating system which is very dependant on video card performance has the exact same video chipset as the PC laptop I purchased on June 17th, 2004. Going back even farther, it has a lower resolution LCD than the PC laptop I purchased on December 12th, 2002. Lower resolution, on a computer that is marketed as THE machine for editing high definition video and images in "The year of HD".

Yes, that is what I call pathetic.

 

[tech4all]

My brand new, $3000 17" PowerBook, running an operating system which is very dependant on video card performance has the exact same video chipset as the PC laptop I purchased on June 17th, 2004. Going back even farther, it has a lower resolution LCD than the PC laptop I purchased on December 12th, 2002. Lower resolution, on a computer that is marketed as THE machine for editing high definition video and images.

Yes, that is what I call pathetic.

Regardless, Mac laptops have a lower repair rating that PC laptops (according to Consumer Reports), which is what I was talking about. I'm not saying Mac laptops are perfect, I'm just giving the fact that Consumer Reports gave them high ratings regarding repair history. For a person who doesn't own or use a Powerbook, to me it seems like the hardware is good. I don't own a Powerbook so I can't give an opinion like you can. But do you agree with those links that they have a less repair history compared to PCs? (regardless of the resources/performance). And oh yeah one more thing, I'm not quite sure I fully follow your post. You're saying that the PB didn't have good video resources yet it's marketed for video editing? One reason it's hard for me to understand that, is simply because I've read my threads here where the PB does fine with video editing.

 

[Timelessblur]

if I remeber right the apple laptop repair rate is 17%. The number range from 17% to 24% though out the compainy tested with the average of all laptops being 20%

 

[Eniregnat]

This is twisting this thread, but I think I need to share my expirence.

I edit using my 1Gz,1.25Gb Ram,40GbHd 12"Pb using FCP. I have seen Apple employees us the 17" for editing using FCP and for running shake. The PB seems just fine for editing, though admittedly irritated that I don't have the recommended G5. There is nothing pathetic about the rendering quality, which is not video dependent, that is that real-time rendering is video card dependent is adequate- not perfect, while final rendering of effects and exporting projects for DVD Studio Pro using compressor or other engine is admittedly slow, it is also extremely accurate, and on par with other “high end” PC laptops running similar software.

Any of the studios that are using Mac use G5 desktops or rack mounted G5s. None of the render or edit monkeys that I know would choose a laptop of any kind, unless they were in the field and had no other choice.

Lastly, if a PB can run Shake, it really can do everything as far as one would need for effects.

The Pb is a good field computer, and the mini-Mac is not orientated towards power users, though I it might do in a pinch.

 

[spercharged69]

No, the point is, a low-resolution LCD coupled with a last-generation graphics chipset is not what I'd call "pro level" by a long shot.

 

[mrjamin]

No, the point is, a low-resolution LCD coupled with a last-generation graphics chipset is not what I'd call "pro level" by a long shot.

don't forget that "pro" doesn't just apply to the speed/capability of the hardware, but reliability as well. Being a creative professional, reliability is extremely important. Far too many times have i arrived for a presentation, or a consultation only to find the salesman's/client's wintel lappy is having a funny five minutes, or the battery has mysteriously packed up. Never happened with me and my mac!

Like i said, i'm a creative professional, and I haven't always used macs. I'm self employed, so my time is valuable very valuable. I used to use a high-end PC (up until 18 months ago) which cost me a fair amount of ££. It was considered a pro machine. I had a very minimal set of applications on there (CS Suite, MX Suite, FireFox, Thunderbird - that's it, no joke). After 4 weeks, the thing would just slow down, even though I'd not installed anything new for weeks! So, I'd have to do a clean install of XP. Sure enough, 4 weeks later, and its running slow again. Sure, it wasn't quite grinding to a halt, but the performance was notably and noticably slower than it was the day i reformatted and installed XP. I was losing a day a month just in wiping my computer, reinstalling everything and getting my prefs set the way i like them - for a guy in my position, this costs time, and more importantly money. Do that 12 times a year, and you've lost a few thousand straight off. A big deal!

So, don't forget pro stands for professional. If you use computers professionally, you need to make sure its not costing you unnecessary expense - I cut my losses, switched to a mac. Now i just spend time using (i.e. working) my computer, not fixing the bloody thing! I could have spent the same amount and got more processing power in a wintel machine, but it would have cost me more in the long run.

 

[spercharged69]

don't forget that "pro" doesn't just apply to the speed/capability of the hardware, but reliability as well.

OK, consider what happens if you're in the small percentage of units that need to be sent back for repair... How long are you without your PowerBook? Most PC warranties offer options for on-site repair. The heatsink fan went out on my ThinkPad a few months ago, the IBM repair guy was waiting at my office when I was there to unlock the place at 8:00 AM the next day. If you're going to argue reliability, I think that's a bigger point than having to deal with formatting and reinstalling Windows every once in a while.

 

[Timelessblur]

I am more trying to figure out what you where doing to make you self reformate every month because most people dont have those problems. I picky about slow downs and it currently been 9 months and it still not needing it and still running as fast as the day it was installed. Most people dont deal with any slow downs in there computers that fast.

 

[Eniregnat]

I'm going to state that this thread is off track. I see flames down these roads.

I have burnt through greater than a dozen PC clone laptops. None of them were as reliable as my iBook and later my Pb. I have yet to be with out my laptop for more than 2 days, which if I had purchased from my local reseller, I would have had a loner while it was being repaired. I use Apple for my personal and professional life because I want reliability on a robust platform. I use WinTel at work because I need use legacy code, equipment, and I have to work with in the standards of my organization. That written-

The new little PC is cute. I would rather have that on my boss’s desk than the monster he now has. The software and databases are on a central server, so I can't see why anybody other than the media engineers in my office need anything more than a tiny PC and nice big flat screen. The admin. assist. wouldn’t use the 17” PC laptop we gave her, so this would have been a much better solution.

 

[Mechcozmo]

I'm going to state that this thread is off track. I see flames down these roads.

I would recommend that people take a glance at my 'tar.
Just saying that....

And that new Mini-Intel is nice but isn't something I'd like around. It is better than a huge tower, but I'd rather build by own mini-ATX computer to have that extra bit of control. 5200 rpm hard drive and more RAM than they want to give me.

 

[angelneo]

Not quite.

OS X "security through obscurity" myth

I think this is quite true. Recently, we have some "crackers" posting in our forum looking for programmers to join them to create malwares for OS X. If I am a hacker, breaking into OS X would sure guarantee my fame now.

As for PC mini, I think they still need to polish up the style factor before I would venture to buy one.

 

[Timelessblur]

I think this is quite true. Recently, we have some "crackers" posting in our forum looking for programmers to join them to create malwares for OS X. If I am a hacker, breaking into OS X would sure guarantee my fame now.

As for PC mini, I think they still need to polish up the style factor before I would venture to buy one.

you can claim that but at the same time Apple market share is still to low to attach any attention. Thier is some valid edivencis that shows that it still to low.

Lets just take browser for example. IE was the only browser that was being attack with spyware and was getting all the security problems. No one paid any attention to non-IE browsers. Now firefox enter the picture and getts about 7% market share by it self and IE fell below 90% and spyware and holes starting getting hit up for spyware and attacks.