SSD more trouble than it's worth?

[dtmint23]

This has probably been addressed in various posts so I apologise in advance (but I can't find anything specific).

I have an early 2011 MBP 13 inch with SATA II in the optical drive bay. I would rather put an SSD in the main bay but obviously the stock HDD doesn't have SMS, so the SSD would need to be in the optical bay. That said, I don't move it around other than in sleep mode. Is it a big risk?

I've been looking at the Crucial M4 64gb as a boot drive. Will this work, or be problematic with respect sleep mode (and closing the lid), unreliability, not booting properly etc.?

 

[phyrexia]

I've had exactly zero problems with my Samsung 470. Can't speak for the Crucial drive.

 

[zflauaus]

Most modern hard drives have a sudden motion sensor in them, I believe. My stock hard drive is in the optical bay and when I moved it once, I heard it click and shut the drive down.

 

[AppChat]

Installed intels new 520120gb ssd and lovin it do far no issues and clean install

 

[shardey]

Installed intels new 520120gb ssd and lovin it do far no issues and clean install

Can you run BlackMagic Disk Speed test and tell me what your write speeds are? I have my 520 120gb running on my 17" with sata 3 and I can't get my write speeds beyond 160MB/s, although my read is 460MB/s.

I feel like it could be a firmware issue, and I don't have an super drive installed right now.

 

[AppChat]

Can you run BlackMagic Disk Speed test and tell me what your write speeds are? I have my 520 120gb running on my 17" with sata 3 and I can't get my write speeds beyond 160MB/s, although my read is 460MB/s.

I feel like it could be a firmware issue, and I don't have an super drive installed right now.

i got about 180mbps write and about 500mbps read.

 

[user418]

I've had exactly zero problems with my Samsung 470. Can't speak for the Crucial drive.

I have a 470 also and it is working fine. Did you enable trim on your drive?

 

[AuroraProject]

I have a Crucial M4 64gb in a netbook running Win 7. I have not had any problems with it.

 

[AppChat]

I have a 470 also and it is working fine. Did you enable trim on your drive?

stupid question but is trim and how to u enable it?

 

[alphaod]

I have my regular hard drive in my optibay bay. I've never had any issues. Of course I never drop or toss my computer when it's on either.

I set my SSD on my main bay and I don't have any issues.

 

[dtmint23]

I have my regular hard drive in my optibay bay. I've never had any issues. Of course I never drop or toss my computer when it's on either.

I set my SSD on my main bay and I don't have any issues.

If I put it to sleep and carried it around would that be a problem?

 

[kappaknight]

If I put it to sleep and carried it around would that be a problem?

So you want to install the SSD, take out the CD drive and put the stock HD in the CD bay?

 

[NickZac]

This has probably been addressed in various posts so I apologise in advance (but I can't find anything specific).

I have an early 2011 MBP 13 inch with SATA II in the optical drive bay. I would rather put an SSD in the main bay but obviously the stock HDD doesn't have SMS, so the SSD would need to be in the optical bay. That said, I don't move it around other than in sleep mode. Is it a big risk?

I've been looking at the Crucial M4 64gb as a boot drive. Will this work, or be problematic with respect sleep mode (and closing the lid), unreliability, not booting properly etc.?

The durability of a HDD is simply nowhere near that of a SSD. Even with the shock-protection of the main bay, if a HDD is exposed to impact/shock, it still has a good chance of breaking, especially when moving. IIRC when you put a drive in the optibay, it is ALWAYS running (not when sleeping of course). Some hard drives have built in shock protection. I believe the current model Scorpio Blacks have it as do certain Spinpoints and a few others.

The Crucial SSD is a great drive. I have a handfull of them and they have been excellent all-around. If you can afford it, I would look at the 128 or greater, and ideally the 256 or 512. The reason for this is that the Crucial's write speeds on the 64 are much lower than the 128, and the 128 is lower than the 256/512. The 64's write performance versus any of the larger ones is pretty pronounced and you can see a difference in normal computing. None-the-less, it is still faster than almost all HDDs.

 

[dusk007]

That said, I don't move it around other than in sleep mode. Is it a big risk?

HDDs can stand much more vibrations than some people think. Moving it around doesn't do anything. You need to drop it onto a hard surface while it is operating to hurt it, and you need to do the same for the SMS to even trigger. Just picking it up and moving it around wouldn't be protected by the SMS. Neither are vibrations while sitting in a train.
A 2.5" modern HDD can handle 350G while operating and 1000 while off or after the SMS triggers.

That is actually quite a bit. There are HDDs that you can put in your pocket and go jogging. They really aren't that fragile.

I would buy a SSD for the speed and the silent operation. Mobile HDDs today can stand 10 times the force of older HDDs. The chances you break your hdd because of that are very slim. The chances it fails on its own are some 3-5% regardless of how you treat it.

 

[JHUFrank]

Good advice. Now that I have converted to SSD on all my laptops, I find it hard to use a machine without one. However, laptop drives are much tougher than their 3.5 counterparts.

HDDs can stand much more vibrations than some people think. Moving it around doesn't do anything. You need to drop it onto a hard surface while it is operating to hurt it, and you need to do the same for the SMS to even trigger. Just picking it up and moving it around wouldn't be protected by the SMS. Neither are vibrations while sitting in a train.
A 2.5" modern HDD can handle 350G while operating and 1000 while off or after the SMS triggers.

That is actually quite a bit. There are HDDs that you can put in your pocket and go jogging. They really aren't that fragile.

I would buy a SSD for the speed and the silent operation. Mobile HDDs today can stand 10 times the force of older HDDs. The chances you break your hdd because of that are very slim. The chances it fails on its own are some 3-5% regardless of how you treat it.

 

[dtmint23]

Alright well I'll put it in the main bay which will be good cause I'll get SATA 3 speeds. So no problems with the M4 in the main bay then?

 

[steve-p]

I've had a 512GB M4 as the only drive in my MBP for getting on for a year now and it works great. Only SATA 2 on mine though as its a 2009.

 

[user418]

stupid question but is trim and how to u enable it?

I'm no expert so that's why I'm still asking questions. Basically TRIM has something to do with the way space is allocated or cleared on your SSD. It's also referred to as garbage collection and some say if not done properly can affect write speeds and the life of the SSD down the line. Most SSD's, I think, have some form of garbage collection. Apple does not support 3rd party drives so folks on MR, much more intelligent than I, developed a solution for non Apple drives.

Not to be a smart ass or pass along bad info but a forum search for TRIM enabler or Samsung 470 TRIM will bring up hundreds of threads and more info than you can imagine. Prior to purchasing my 470 last year I read through quite a bit since there were many conflicting opinions on its usage. I decided not to enable TRIM and my 470 still runs like the day I got it.

Guess I could enable TRIM to see if there's and difference but I don't want to mess things up as they are fine right now. Still curious as to what others have experienced. Don't know if I helped any or not so good luck in making your decision.

 

[dtmint23]

IIRC when you put a drive in the optibay, it is ALWAYS running (not when sleeping of course).

Is this true? Is this the case anyway when using a normal HDD in a stock configuration in the main bay because you need it running to access files and everything else? Or does OSX load the programs into the ram?

 

[AppChat]

I'm no expert so that's why I'm still asking questions. Basically TRIM has something to do with the way space is allocated or cleared on your SSD. It's also referred to as garbage collection and some say if not done properly can affect write speeds and the life of the SSD down the line. Most SSD's, I think, have some form of garbage collection. Apple does not support 3rd party drives so folks on MR, much more intelligent than I, developed a solution for non Apple drives.

Not to be a smart ass or pass along bad info but a forum search for TRIM enabler or Samsung 470 TRIM will bring up hundreds of threads and more info than you can imagine. Prior to purchasing my 470 last year I read through quite a bit since there were many conflicting opinions on its usage. I decided not to enable TRIM and my 470 still runs like the day I got it.

Guess I could enable TRIM to see if there's and difference but I don't want to mess things up as they are fine right now. Still curious as to what others have experienced. Don't know if I helped any or not so good luck in making your decision.

well i purchased an intel 520 SSD 120gb and all i did was format it to mac journaled anddid a fres install of the OS. didnt know i had to do anything else like trim enabling. so i should just leave it i suppose?

also am i suppose to upgrade firmware for the ssd? didnt know that was necessory for a ssd lol

 

[jevel]

*snip*

Prior to purchasing my 470 last year I read through quite a bit since there were many conflicting opinions on its usage. I decided not to enable TRIM and my 470 still runs like the day I got it.

Guess I could enable TRIM to see if there's and difference but I don't want to mess things up as they are fine right now. Still curious as to what others have experienced. Don't know if I helped any or not so good luck in making your decision.

It's pretty tried and proved that trim will give a lot better performance as soon as you have filled the drive once.

Anandtech has several tests that gives proof. Here is one on Crucial M4 which seems to be a very popular drive here on MR.

-KJ

 

[Weaselboy]

It's pretty tried and proved that trim will give a lot better performance as soon as you have filled the drive once.

Anandtech has several tests that gives proof. Here is one on Crucial M4 which seems to be a very popular drive here on MR.

-KJ

That is incorrect and not at all what the Anandtech article says.

 

[NickZac]

HDDs can stand much more vibrations than some people think. Moving it around doesn't do anything. You need to drop it onto a hard surface while it is operating to hurt it, and you need to do the same for the SMS to even trigger. Just picking it up and moving it around wouldn't be protected by the SMS. Neither are vibrations while sitting in a train.
A 2.5" modern HDD can handle 350G while operating and 1000 while off or after the SMS triggers.

That is actually quite a bit. There are HDDs that you can put in your pocket and go jogging. They really aren't that fragile.

I would buy a SSD for the speed and the silent operation. Mobile HDDs today can stand 10 times the force of older HDDs. The chances you break your hdd because of that are very slim. The chances it fails on its own are some 3-5% regardless of how you treat it.

3-5% in the first 3 to 6 months...
http://static.googleusercontent.com...ch.google.com/en/us/archive/disk_failures.pdf

While I agree modern hard disk drives are better than they were before, they are still prone to damage from shock (and other elements). Laptops are portable computers and they sometimes will be dropped and exposed to shock/vibration. No, no one wants to drop them but it happens. The only laptop hard drives that I have seen survive the nastier falls have all been solid state. Of the HDDs I have seen that have survived some type of shock, numerous have failed shortly after. The shock protection you get from a SSD is far more substantial than that of a HDD and so the SSD is better suited for mobile usage IMO. The 350 (occasionally up to 400) running and 1000 not is the maximum of all HDDs. However, SSDs are in the 1500 range, running or not. Most people put their computer to sleep when going from class to class or job site to job site, and so the hard disk may still be running at the time in which a fall is most likely to happen. I do agree that in order to kill a modern hard drive, it would have to be a pretty nasty fall (and not a train ride or anything like that), but my point is that for the best overall protection, a SSD is, hands down, the best way to go if money permits.

 

[NickZac]

It's pretty tried and proved that trim will give a lot better performance as soon as you have filled the drive once.

Anandtech has several tests that gives proof. Here is one on Crucial M4 which seems to be a very popular drive here on MR.

-KJ

Crucial explicitly says not to enable TRIM and that the M4 does its own garbage collection when it is idle. I have read some people say TRIM on their M4's have helped performance and so I went back to my older (and smaller) Crucial M4 and C300 and checked their performance levels...for the most part, their performance is about where it was when it is new. I am hesitant to enable TRIM given Crucial does not advise it.

I figure the best way to go is to simply observe the drive using Black Magic or another benchmark by doing a baseline when you get it, a follow up after a few months, and a follow up a few months after that. If speeds are the same, then there is no reason to enable TRIM given some of the issues users have reported. If speeds have fallen, then perhaps enabling TRIM may be worthwhile. However, I would try letting your computer sit on but idle, with the display blacked out, for a few nights given that period of inactivity is when the Crucial "self cleans", which is radically different from the "active cleaning" of the SandForce drives (which are probably slightly more efficient). Thus far, none of my Crucials (or Intels [not sure how the X25 or 510 do their garbage collection], Corsair, or OWC for that matter) have needed TRIM to be enabled when running OS X (my Vertex 3 and Kingston are in Windows computers so I can't say either way about them).

 

[alphaod]

If I put it to sleep and carried it around would that be a problem?

No, I do it all the time. In fact, I only shutdown my computer when I'm not using it a long time, to reboot into Windows, or installing updates. From day to day use, I always sleep it.