Starbucks hack coming soon?

[zub3qin]

Normally, you need to pay to access wifi at Starbucks (unlike most other coffeeshops).
Apple/Starbucks will allow people to use wifi for iTunes only, in the near future.

"Connect for free.

As long as you have an iPod touch, an iPhone, or a computer with the latest version of iTunes, you get free Wi-Fi access to the iTunes Store and to Starbucks Now Playing content. Stroll into a participating Starbucks and you’re connected automatically. Browse and search the entire iTunes Store from your laptop or millions of songs on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store from iPod touch or iPhone. All at the same prices as the regular iTunes Store."

Anyone think a hack will be forthcoming allowing you to use Safari in Starbucks at no charge? To this amateur, it seems possible since you are being allowed onto their wifi network already. But who knows?

 

[sanford]

Someone will try at least. Since Starbucks hotspots are T-mobile and T-mobile gets all the unlocked iPhone customers in the States, me thinks Apple may not care too much to stop such a hack if it succeeds. Ha ha. Unless Starbucks threatens to kill the deal and there goes the revenue deal from songs sold in Starbucks.

At any rate, on any kind of network there are some good ways to identify authorized clients and keep unauthorized clients off. So depending on how sharp the T-Mo/Starbucks hotspot people are, a hack might not work.

Normally, you need to pay to access wifi at Starbucks (unlike most other coffeeshops).
Apple/Starbucks will allow people to use wifi for iTunes only, in the near future.

"Connect for free.

As long as you have an iPod touch, an iPhone, or a computer with the latest version of iTunes, you get free Wi-Fi access to the iTunes Store and to Starbucks Now Playing content. Stroll into a participating Starbucks and you’re connected automatically. Browse and search the entire iTunes Store from your laptop or millions of songs on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store from iPod touch or iPhone. All at the same prices as the regular iTunes Store."

Anyone think a hack will be forthcoming allowing you to use Safari in Starbucks at no charge? To this amateur, it seems possible since you are being allowed onto their wifi network already. But who knows?

 

[carfac]

It will NOT be on the T-Mobile network, it will be a seperate Wi_fi network that is locked down to ONLY do certian things. If they were using the T-Mobile network, they would not be rolling out in only two cities; it would be all wifi enabled starbucks. I think by virtue of the fact that this starts in only a few stores in only a few cities, you can bet that there is new hardware going in that will run this new system. And that new systemwill be locked down to ONLY the iTunes store. An iPhone will not be able to surf the net or check e-mail (unless it has T-Mobile Hostspots)... it will ONLY be able to do the limited things that the WiFi store allows.

So a hack will not matter- there will only be a few things available on the net.

 

[sanford]

Ooh, really good point. If it was on T-Mo that's just roll it out everywhere. It's only coming to two markets on 2nd October, with most major urban markets by the end of 2008. Very good point; separate network firewalled to point traffic to only one place.

It will NOT be on the T-Mobile network, it will be a seperate Wi_fi network that is locked down to ONLY do certian things. If they were using the T-Mobile network, they would not be rolling out in only two cities; it would be all wifi enabled starbucks. I think by virtue of the fact that this starts in only a few stores in only a few cities, you can bet that there is new hardware going in that will run this new system. And that new systemwill be locked down to ONLY the iTunes store. An iPhone will not be able to surf the net or check e-mail (unless it has T-Mobile Hostspots)... it will ONLY be able to do the limited things that the WiFi store allows.

So a hack will not matter- there will only be a few things available on the net.

 

[zub3qin]

It will NOT be on the T-Mobile network, it will be a seperate Wi_fi network that is locked down to ONLY do certian things. If they were using the T-Mobile network, they would not be rolling out in only two cities; it would be all wifi enabled starbucks. I think by virtue of the fact that this starts in only a few stores in only a few cities, you can bet that there is new hardware going in that will run this new system. And that new systemwill be locked down to ONLY the iTunes store. An iPhone will not be able to surf the net or check e-mail (unless it has T-Mobile Hostspots)... it will ONLY be able to do the limited things that the WiFi store allows.

So a hack will not matter- there will only be a few things available on the net.

Carfac-
That is the smartest post I have seen on Macrumors in 4 weeks.
Excellent points. There is no way T-Mobile will be hosting the iPhone... it has to be new Apple hardware in the Starbucks stores.

 

[carfac]

Ooh, really good point. If it was on T-Mo that's just roll it out everywhere. It's only coming to two markets on 2nd October, with most major urban markets by the end of 2008. Very good point; separate network firewalled to point traffic to only one place.

I do not doubt that just about anyone will be able to get on it. But it will have to be through an iTunes interface ONLY, and that will be the only place to go.

Apple sure does seem to like to lock things down these days, doesn't it?

 

[ejrizo]

but if its on a seperate wifi then the t-mobile how are people going to access the features without switing wifi connections... like that whats playing and so forth if you are connected to the Tmobile hot spot?...

 

[zub3qin]

but if its on a seperate wifi then the t-mobile how are people going to access the features without switing wifi connections... like that whats playing and so forth if you are connected to the Tmobile hot spot?...

Even if you are on T-mobile hot spot, as soon as you hit iTunes (or the Starbucks icon) on your device, you WILL switch wifi connections- but it will happen automatically.

 

[TurboSC]

I dunno adding a separate network into the equation seems to just complicate things even more.

I mean I'm sure iTunes will have some verification for the wifi store, but like the ringtone fiasco, it's probably a very simple check that can be developed around...

Who knows, anything can happen

 

[zub3qin]

I do not doubt that just about anyone will be able to get on it. But it will have to be through an iTunes interface ONLY, and that will be the only place to go.

Apple sure does seem to like to lock things down these days, doesn't it?

Carfac-
You seem like a smart guy...
Can you comment on whether or not I should bite the bullet and get an iPhone (i'm on the Apple store as we speak)?

I got the 16Gb iPod touch in my hand as we speak... I like it, but I really am not interested in iPod as much as PDA functionality. As you know, you can't Mail.app, etc with it. I currently use Sprint and cannot/will not switch to AT&T. So I plan on getting an iPhone, using Independence to activate it (unless you advise otherwise) and then Jailbreak to add apps.

1) What is your opinion as to Apple firmware updates causing the hack-tivation to cease working? Is it safer in your mind to legitimately activate the iPhone and then cancel (since this way there is no added code installed in the system, and future firmware updates *shouldn't* cause problems.) Of course, you have to pay an activation fee and more to do it this way.

2) Do you think a new iPhone is out before Christmas? If so, your guess as oto what it will offer? If only 16Gb memory, I am not too worried since music storage is not my main need.

3)Finally, your guess on when 3G is available? This is the thing keeping me on Sprint with my Treo. (That and I have unlimited data, 500 minutes and 6PM nights/weekends for $30/month!)


Thanks for your advice!

 

[zub3qin]

I dunno adding a separate network into the equation seems to just complicate things even more.

I mean I'm sure iTunes will have some verification for the wifi store, but like the ringtone fiasco, it's probably a very simple check that can be developed around...

Who knows, anything can happen

Doesn't anyone think this is the start of Apple offering broadband service?
They will start small-- only in Starbucks. Starbucks then cancels their deal with T-Mobile and uses Apple as their wi-fi provider.
Apple tests things out, and ultimately sells wifi/broadband to all consumers.

 

[question fear]

Carfac-
You seem like a smart guy...
Can you comment on whether or not I should bite the bullet and get an iPhone (i'm on the Apple store as we speak)?

I got the 16Gb iPod touch in my hand as we speak... I like it, but I really am not interested in iPod as much as PDA functionality. As you know, you can't Mail.app, etc with it. I currently use Sprint and cannot/will not switch to AT&T. So I plan on getting an iPhone, using Independence to activate it (unless you advise otherwise) and then Jailbreak to add apps.

1) What is your opinion as to Apple firmware updates causing the hack-tivation to cease working? Is it safer in your mind to legitimately activate the iPhone and then cancel (since this way there is no added code installed in the system, and future firmware updates *shouldn't* cause problems.) Of course, you have to pay an activation fee and more to do it this way.

2) Do you think a new iPhone is out before Christmas? If so, your guess as oto what it will offer? If only 16Gb memory, I am not too worried since music storage is not my main need.

3)Finally, your guess on when 3G is available? This is the thing keeping me on Sprint with my Treo. (That and I have unlimited data, 500 minutes and 6PM nights/weekends for $30/month!)


Thanks for your advice!

Well I am not carfac but your questions have been addressed in a bunch of places, and here's my humble view for you:

1) No idea on hacks. So far every firmware has required a restore and re-hack, but generally from what i've read they've been easy to rehack after updates. Your best bet is to wait and read what happens to hacked phones (I am sure engadget and the other such sites will test it) and then go from there.

2) I would hazard a guess that if we see a new iphone refresh it would be december/january. If we don't see one by black friday then chances are there won't be one until after the christmas season. That's not based on anything other than retail instinct.

3) Based on comments made by Jobs, the next iteration will probably have 3G. You have a deal on Sprint that probably cannot be reproduced on ATT, so you'll have to decide if it's worth it for you.

 

[question fear]

Doesn't anyone think this is the start of Apple offering broadband service?
They will start small-- only in Starbucks. Starbucks then cancels their deal with T-Mobile and uses Apple as their wi-fi provider.
Apple tests things out, and ultimately sells wifi/broadband to all consumers.

What does Apple get from being a dumb pipe though? They are better off using some else's network and their service. Why pay for the maintenance, upkeep, marketing, etc, when you can just deal with the end user directly and let someone else connect the wires? I can't imagine the margins are so high in broadband that it's worth it to them.

 

[carfac]

What does Apple get from being a dumb pipe though?

What does Apple always want? CONTROL. Their network, they control it. With T-Mobile, they have no control at all. I doubt even Starbuck has the power to tell T-Mo what to do with their network. If it's apples network, they can decide who gets on, where they can go, what ports are open and closed. What leg does Apple have to stand on going to T-Mobile and telling them what to do with the T-Mo hotspot network?

If iApple was using T-Mo's network, there would be no need to roll out a city at a time. Do it all at once. (What does Apple get out of a phased introduction- nada!) If they had to pony up the bucks and install new networks from the ground up, what would you see? A phased introduction in various cities, one or two at a time.

 

[question fear]

What does Apple always want? CONTROL. Their network, they control it. With T-Mobile, they have no control at all. I doubt even Starbuck has the power to tell T-Mo what to do with their network. If it's apples network, they can decide who gets on, where they can go, what ports are open and closed. What leg does Apple have to stand on going to T-Mobile and telling them what to do with the T-Mo hotspot network?

If iApple was using T-Mo's network, there would be no need to roll out a city at a time. Do it all at once. (What does Apple get out of a phased introduction- nada!) If they had to pony up the bucks and install new networks from the ground up, what would you see? A phased introduction in various cities, one or two at a time.

I see what you are saying; i think it is a case of Apple wanting control, but I don't think they gain enough OVERALL to usurp T-Mobile completely. I think their hunger for control is why you are right, they are using a different system that solely runs the wifi store. But I don't see it as a stepping stone to offering wifi in Starbucks and places etc in place of T-Mobile; I think they don't gain enough extra above and beyond what they are currently rolling out.

But it all depends on how much revenue rolls in from the wifi store, most likely.

 

[zub3qin]

I see what you are saying; i think it is a case of Apple wanting control, but I don't think they gain enough OVERALL to usurp T-Mobile completely. I think their hunger for control is why you are right, they are using a different system that solely runs the wifi store. But I don't see it as a stepping stone to offering wifi in Starbucks and places etc in place of T-Mobile; I think they don't gain enough extra above and beyond what they are currently rolling out.

But it all depends on how much revenue rolls in from the wifi store, most likely.

Maybe Apple has bigger plans than wifi.
Google is bidding BILLIONS on a cellular network.
Maybe Apple is testing the waters here... maybe they want to become the next AT&T or Sprint....

 

[carfac]

I see what you are saying; i think it is a case of Apple wanting control, but I don't think they gain enough OVERALL to usurp T-Mobile completely. I think their hunger for control is why you are right, they are using a different system that solely runs the wifi store. But I don't see it as a stepping stone to offering wifi in Starbucks and places etc in place of T-Mobile; I think they don't gain enough extra above and beyond what they are currently rolling out.

But it all depends on how much revenue rolls in from the wifi store, most likely.

QF:

I do not pretend I am right, or I have any inside knowledge or anything. But for this to play out, this is just how I see it. The "control" thing is a jab from me really, and not something I think a large corp REALLY bases things on. But just looking at how this is rolled out, the city by city thing, I think is a big clue.

I do not see how Apple has ANY control over what T-Mob says or does, and do not see how they can change that. After royalties, margins on iTunes are slim. Money is Apples only leverage, and they do not have much (in the iTunes profits pool), and certainly not enough to get T-Mo to do their bidding. T-Mo is not gonna screw with they system just because Jobs asks nice, no matter how natty his turtlenecks are.

Someone wiser than us both once said something to the effect that the simplest solution is the most likely. Seems to me Apple is on their own here, and their own network is the simplest, and thus most likely.

But again, I have NO CLUE!

 

[question fear]

I dont doubt it. I am sure Apple has quite the plan for us, and it will be interesting to see what they do next. I am coming from a perspective of watching the telcos and wifi networks, and I think that there's a narrow band where it's useful for Apple to be involved. Of course, all this could be totally different if Apple is planning on jumping in at 4G or wherever the point is where broadband localized internet (ie comcast, t-mobile hotspots, etc) begins to compete directly with cellular internet (3/4G telephony) on price and speed. Until then they are juggling a lot of balls in arenas that are seeing major major price wars. When they can dominate one network and hit home and mobile simultaneously it might be worth it more.
But we are just two amateur pundits having a friendly debate. Guess we will see...