State of Customer Services

[PaladinGuy]

Just curious how many others feel like customer service has really nose dived over the past few years. It seems like Apple is one of the few companies where you can actually reach someone quickly via phone, internet or in-person. For all the things I’m not crazy about with Apple lately, this is still somewhere they really shine.

I’ve had to contact customer service for 4 different companies this month, and it takes days for someone to answer me. Even when they do, the response is rarely consistent.

I miss the days where you actually could talk to a person. I guess nobody wants to pay people anymore…

 

[eyoungren]

Business discovered at a certain point that they could push off accountability and still make money. Customers keep coming back because there is often no alternative. So, customer service got sent outside the US. They made it difficult to speak to someone, difficult to cancel service, difficult to get just about anything done really.

Turnover is bad for customer support agents. They only get basic training and are taught to stick to a script. Most do not speak English very well because, overseas. If your problem is outside of their script/training, then you've got problems.

All of this is explicitly designed for one thing and that is to get rid of YOU. Your problem(s) cost the company money to deal with. Resolution of your problem(s) may cost the company even more. That's money out of the pockets of the shareholders, whom realistically, the company serves - not you.

Loyalty to a company also means nothing. Lots of people get hung up on this. They think that because they's given money to a company each month or consistently, for 'X' number of years that they are owed something. But business has no loyalty to you, no matter how long you've been there or been loyal to them.

So, the lesson here is this - be loyal to yourself. Get educated, take care of your own problems - protect yourself. And for all the stuff that you absolutely have to contact support for, learn to find the people that can actually help you. The people you call, chat online with or visit in store? Those are gatekeepers, the first line of defense against the customer. They are really only empowered to help you if your problem(s) fit in to a nice, neat little box that gets quick resolution and saves the company money. Outside of that, they are there to make you go away.

But just about any company has a team somewhere that can actually do things. Find them. For my cellular carrier (T-Mobile), that's a group called T-Force. I deal with them exclusively because they have the authority to actually DO something.

One final thing…metrics. Almost every company has sales metrics that the customer reps have to meet monthly. If your problem won't help the rep make their sales goals (so they can remain employed), you're unlikely to get much help.

As to Apple…my experience with them the last several times has NOT been yours.

 

[russell_314]

Business discovered at a certain point that they could push off accountability and still make money. Customers keep coming back because there is often no alternative.

I disagree with this. I’m not saying it’s not partially true but customers keep coming back because they want the product. Customers will say one thing, but want another. It’s like the joke where a woman says she doesn’t want something. That could mean so many things. It’s the same thing with customers. Customers say they don’t want cheap imported junk from China, but Walmart is doing extremely well.

I really hope Apple doesn’t go down the road of terrible customer service but who knows

 

[PaladinGuy]

I think it is the incessant drive to cut expenses and raise profit margins. It’s a constant attempt to do as much as possible with as little as possible.

That means the smallest number of customer service representatives (and less quality and training for the few).

I hear people say often that workers are just lazy now and don’t want to work. There’s always some truth to this because there has always been and will always be lazy people. What does change is that when you ask fewer and fewer people to do more and more, quality on something suffers.

AI has a LONG way to go before it can handle customer service for anything but the most simple things, at least in my experience. Chatting with an AI bot tends to just waste my time. At least with Apple, you can talk to a person or text or chat with someone.

 

[eyoungren]

I disagree with this. I’m not saying it’s not partially true but customers keep coming back because they want the product. Customers will say one thing, but want another. It’s like the joke where a woman says she doesn’t want something. That could mean so many things. It’s the same thing with customers. Customers say they don’t want cheap imported junk from China, but Walmart is doing extremely well.

I really hope Apple doesn’t go down the road of terrible customer service but who knows

You're right, but I think that has to do with type of industry and location. My electric service is due to raise prices in September. There are two electric companies out here and you are stuck with one or the other depending on where you live. I'm sure I could get solar or move heaven and earth to find some third option electrical supplier, but this is not Texas. If you want electricity, SRP (Salt River Project) is basically your only option (where I live).

Now that's a utility and if they had poor customer service and poor reliability, I'd be very frustrated. As it is, I've generally ended up with the better company between the two providers here. But that is simply because I live on the west side of town. If I lived on the east side of town I'm sure I would have complaints. APS (Arizona Public Service) has no qualms in raising rates whenever they feel like it and they have shut off electricity to people who owe them when temps have been 100º plus.

Comcast/XFinity is another example. I admit, most of these are utility monopolies, but what about companies that own certain brands where the customer support has gone downhill? I can't cite an example right now, but I'm sure if I think hard enough I will.

 

[eyoungren]

AI has a LONG way to go before it can handle customer service for anything but the most simple things, at least in my experience. Chatting with an AI bot tends to just waste my time. At least with Apple, you can talk to a person or text or chat with someone.

I read a story the other day about a startup company that was offering a certain AI product that allowed customers to build apps in a natural manner (no coding) in a minimal amount of time. The reason it was a story is because one of this company's customers experienced a runaway AI. This AI ignored all instructions from the customer, told the customer it was purposely ignoring them, told the customer that it would delete the customer's entire database and then did so. It then told the customer that it could not restore the database.

Some of that was a lie. The company was able to restore a backup, but it shows that yes, AI has a long way to go.

EDIT: Link.

 

[Madonepro]

but it shows that yes, AI has a long way to go.

and we should be very scared of how we develop this...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Customer service has been terrible for years. During Covid many companies cut their customer service teams and didn’t change that afterwards due to profit margins etc.
AI and chat bots just make the problem worse. Even if you are only mildly annoyed by the issue with your product or service, by the time you are through to an actual person (assuming you can understand the accent and hear them clearly, you are already quite frustrated with the experience.

Whenever I’ve had to use Apples customer service I’ve always found them to be a lot better. Even repairing my 2018 Mac Mini last year free of charge. Worth the premium in my book.

 

[PaladinGuy]

I would gladly pay more for things and make repeat purchases from companies who actually have good customer service. The stock market is really what controls companies these days though. Not customers. Customers are a means to an end, I think, in the eyes of most large companies.

I agree. COVID days have an excuse for them to cut staff and raise prices. Funny how after supply chain problems get sorted out, prices don’t come back down…

 

[russell_314]

You're right, but I think that has to do with type of industry and location. My electric service is due to raise prices in September. There are two electric companies out here and you are stuck with one or the other depending on where you live. I'm sure I could get solar or move heaven and earth to find some third option electrical supplier, but this is not Texas. If you want electricity, SRP (Salt River Project) is basically your only option (where I live).

Now that's a utility and if they had poor customer service and poor reliability, I'd be very frustrated. As it is, I've generally ended up with the better company between the two providers here. But that is simply because I live on the west side of town. If I lived on the east side of town I'm sure I would have complaints. APS (Arizona Public Service) has no qualms in raising rates whenever they feel like it and they have shut off electricity to people who owe them when temps have been 100º plus.

Comcast/XFinity is another example. I admit, most of these are utility monopolies, but what about companies that own certain brands where the customer support has gone downhill? I can't cite an example right now, but I'm sure if I think hard enough I will.

There are different scenarios that could cause customer service to go downhill. One being a monopoly. Where I live you pay for your water and sewer to the government. The government has a monopoly that’s enforced by violence. They don’t have to worry about competition so they can treat you anyway they want. If you want water, you buy it from us and if you don’t want water, you’re still going to pay because they have the ability to force you to pay. That’s an extreme case, but it’s an example of how a monopoly gets out of control. Another common example is cable/Internet providers. If you look at areas where there is no competition they charge whatever they feel like and give the worst possible customer service. If there is some competition, then it forces them to make their service more attractive to customers.

On the other side of that coin, customer service can degrade even with competition because most customers to want the absolute lowest price possible. When that happens companies look for ways to cut pennies. Often customer service is the first to go because it doesn’t physically affect the product.

My point is that people will say they want the best or they want this great customer service but, they’ll also say they want the cheapest possible price. Best and cheapest aren’t the same. I’m not sure what part of human nature this is from but I feel like it’s not good. The same people that think it’s perfectly acceptable to try and get a seller to lower their price would be offended if their employer asked if he can cut their salary 10% this month to save the company money. It’s the same thing, but the shoe is on the other foot and people don’t see that.

I know that’s a deep rabbit hole, but I feel like that’s the main cause of poor customer service. When customers have a choice between going to a store that’s nice, clean and has friendly customer service but the prices are higher generally they will choose the store that’s filthy and has zero customer service. This is why at least in the USA we have one giant retail store that sells pretty much everything. All the good stores went out of business because customers stopped going.

 

[russell_314]

I would gladly pay more for things and make repeat purchases from companies who actually have good customer service. The stock market is really what controls companies these days though. Not customers. Customers are a means to an end, I think, in the eyes of most large companies.

I agree. COVID days have an excuse for them to cut staff and raise prices. Funny how after supply chain problems get sorted out, prices don’t come back down…

You say this, but do you actually shop at stores that charge more? Maybe you do but that’s not what most people do. Everyone I know for the most part looks for the cheapest possible price. I’m not talking about people that are living from paycheck to paycheck and need to save money for food. I’m talking about people that are generally doing well, but if they can save $15 they will go to a place that has much worse customer service. I’ve been guilty of doing this myself and I really try not to. I feel like it’s a race to the bottom when it comes to customer service

 

[avro707]

You're right, but I think that has to do with type of industry and location. My electric service is due to raise prices in September. There are two electric companies out here and you are stuck with one or the other depending on where you live. I'm sure I could get solar or move heaven and earth to find some third option electrical supplier, but this is not Texas. If you want electricity, SRP (Salt River Project) is basically your only option (where I live).

Now that's a utility and if they had poor customer service and poor reliability, I'd be very frustrated. As it is, I've generally ended up with the better company between the two providers here. But that is simply because I live on the west side of town. If I lived on the east side of town I'm sure I would have complaints. APS (Arizona Public Service) has no qualms in raising rates whenever they feel like it and they have shut off electricity to people who owe them when temps have been 100º plus.

Comcast/XFinity is another example. I admit, most of these are utility monopolies, but what about companies that own certain brands where the customer support has gone downhill? I can't cite an example right now, but I'm sure if I think hard enough I will.

If you do get solar, do your research first so you know the technology and the options available. You might end up going with solar and batteries right away as the first step. A big step but probably better overall than adding batteries later (which might be even more costly).

Some installers are not the best either, so do your homework first.

On customer service, I will pay more to get better service. For the Australians, they will know a retailer “Henry Bucks” - they are excellent, great old fashioned customer service.

They were near my office and one morning I had ridden to work but forgotten to pack one of my work shoes. I had a very important meeting - I needed proper work shoes.

Rang up Henry Bucks ahead of opening time and they were actually there. Told them what I wanted, then hobbled down there in cycling shoes. They had the shoes I wanted ready to try out with sizes above and below what I needed as well.

Good thinking! All done before 9am - excellent.

 

[gigatoaster]

I wouldn’t blame entirely “customer services” first, it’s too vague and it’s easy to make generalizations.

We can do the same statement with customers: aren’t we more entitled than before? Everything is more polarized than before and honestly more violent.

Imagine a small restaurant that gets bad reviews, this can destroy a business.

Now if we’re talking about big corporations, they all have KPIs to measure customer satisfaction.

There are abuses on both sides.

 

[PaladinGuy]

I wouldn’t blame entirely “customer services” first, it’s too vague and it’s easy to make generalizations.

We can do the same statement with customers: aren’t we more entitled than before? Everything is more polarized than before and honestly more violent.

Imagine a small restaurant that gets bad reviews, this can destroy a business.

Now if we’re talking about big corporations, they all have KPIs to measure customer satisfaction.

There are abuses on both sides.

I suppose there’s truth to customers also expecting more. They’re also paying more and companies are making bigger profits than ever. I’m definitely referring mostly to large corporations. I see it first hand the way they cut expenses as far as possible, typically in the name of stock price valuation. Now many CEOs seem to think AI will replace most humans that they currently have to pay.

Small companies only frustrate me when they don’t scale well and start making more sales than they can really support. It’s forgivable as they scale, but my patience isn’t limitless.

I grant that it’s complicated and not all one sided.

 

[eyoungren]

If you do get solar, do your research first so you know the technology and the options available. You might end up going with solar and batteries right away as the first step. A big step but probably better overall than adding batteries later (which might be even more costly).

Some installers are not the best either, so do your homework first.

On customer service, I will pay more to get better service. For the Australians, they will know a retailer “Henry Bucks” - they are excellent, great old fashioned customer service.

They were near my office and one morning I had ridden to work but forgotten to pack one of my work shoes. I had a very important meeting - I needed proper work shoes.

Rang up Henry Bucks ahead of opening time and they were actually there. Told them what I wanted, then hobbled down there in cycling shoes. They had the shoes I wanted ready to try out with sizes above and below what I needed as well.

Good thinking! All done before 9am - excellent.

One day solar might happen, but unlikely at this location and unlikely to be any time soon. Given that we live paycheck to paycheck, I am strongly hesitant to go to great expense not only to purchase solar, but to subject myself to the approval process of my HOA (Home Owners Association).

There are far more pressing things to throw our limited money at first, such as a new dryer, a central A/C that's been broken since 2021 and repairing the tank of the master bath toilet. Also, we need another vehicle. Four people in the house needing to go four different places sometimes and ONE vehicle between all of us. I'm quite sure my wife has other things to add as well.

In short, if there is a bottom of my list item to get to before solar, then solar is in the sub-basement.

 

[eyoungren]

I suppose there’s truth to customers also expecting more. They’re also paying more and companies are making bigger profits than ever. I’m definitely referring mostly to large corporations. I see it first hand the way they cut expenses as far as possible, typically in the name of stock price valuation. Now many CEOs seem to think AI will replace most humans that they currently have to pay.

Small companies only frustrate me when they don’t scale well and start making more sales than they can really support. It’s forgivable as they scale, but my patience isn’t limitless.

I grant that it’s complicated and not all one sided.

I have a particular chip on my shoulder against certain small business. I was in newspapers for 19 years (ad design, page layout and composition), 14.5 of those years in one community. Over time you begin to see certain patterns, particularly if you spent any time frequenting some of those businesses. While a large amount of small companies are just people trying to make a go at it, there exists a particular segment that treats this as a 'hobby'. Wherever these proprietors originally made their fortune, they plow it into a money losing company because they have 'always wanted to run a small business'. They are open banker's hours and take banker's holidays on top of extended personal vacations for which their shop is NOT open. The name of the game for them is inconsistency.

And they advertised with us without thought. One business wanted to run an ad where they were going to have movie night. The idea being to generate traffic and therefore business. Only the string of movies they were choosing to show publicly were all Disney films. When I started asking 'innocent' questions about a license to broadcast Disney movies to the general public, all of a sudden the ad they wanted to run changed.

And, it also seemed like a lot of business owners felt it was perfectly acceptable to use Google Maps to reference the location of their business without paying Google. I mean, there is a reason Google watermarks Maps with a copyright mark!

To me, these are the same people as those you find running larger businesses now. They just made their money, retired and wanted a hobby.

 

[OverTheHill]

Some friends of ours just flew Frontier Airlines. During the boarding the gate agent was swiping TikTok and would occasionally look up and tell passengers to swipe their boarding passes under the scanner when they presented the boarding passes to the agent. This is about as pathetic as it can get. Put the device down and do your damn job!

 

[avro707]

In my country Aramex is the example of unreliable.

It is a lottery of if you will get your delivery at all. Days of delays and nobody knowing what to do or how to get your delivery to you.