Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Stuck with Mac OS Extended (Journaled) in Lion Disk Utility

I

iMikeT

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jul 8, 2006
2,304
1
California
I'm formatting an external hard drive in Disk Utility in Lion and upon picking a format for the disk (and subsequent partitions), the only choices I had were the following:

Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
Mac OS Extended (Journaled, encrypted)
Mac OS Extended (case-sensitive, Journaled)
Mac OS Extended (case-sensitive, Journaled, encrypted)

And a couple of other formats I really didn't care for...

Anyway, I was looking for and wanted to use the original HFS+ format of Mac OS Extended (not Journaled) but realized that it was not there in Lion. What's the deal with a non-Journaled Mac OS Extended not being in Lion?

Also, other than booting into Snow Leopard, is there anyway to not have a Journaled volume in Lion?
 
duongquaphim said:
Hi,

I 'd like to have a backup disk for Linux and Mac Lion. Using HFS+ with journaled make the disk read-only in Linux. So I 'd like to use HFS+ without Journaled but can't find that option in Disk Utility. Do you have any suggestions?

Duong
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that Journaling was the significant factor, since Linux systems need additional software to read any HFS+ formatted disk. Perhaps a partitioned drive or one with a different format would work best for you? Be aware that Time Machine will not work on a drive that does not have Journaling enabled, so you'd have to use a different backup system if you choose not to use HFS+ Journaled.

jW
 
"I 'd like to have a backup disk for Linux and Mac Lion. Using HFS+ with journaled make the disk read-only in Linux. So I 'd like to use HFS+ without Journaled but can't find that option in Disk Utility. Do you have any suggestions?"

I don't think "un-journaled" is possible with Lion. No option for it.

With Lion, it's now "journaling, or nothing".

Perhaps there is a technical reason for this -- or perhaps Apple just decided to take one more option away from us.

Speaking of taking options away, wait 'til you install Mountain Lion. I did (just for the heck of it), and when I went to set up the Mail.app, discovered that Apple took away the ability to set Mail up for a "POP" server! No choice even possible any longer!
 
Fishrrman said:
"I 'd like to have a backup disk for Linux and Mac Lion. Using HFS+ with journaled make the disk read-only in Linux. So I 'd like to use HFS+ without Journaled but can't find that option in Disk Utility. Do you have any suggestions?"

I don't think "un-journaled" is possible with Lion. No option for it.

With Lion, it's now "journaling, or nothing".

Perhaps there is a technical reason for this -- or perhaps Apple just decided to take one more option away from us.

Speaking of taking options away, wait 'til you install Mountain Lion. I did (just for the heck of it), and when I went to set up the Mail.app, discovered that Apple took away the ability to set Mail up for a "POP" server! No choice even possible any longer!
Click to expand...

i doubt that will be the case by the time of official release...
 
GGJstudios said:
Why would you not want Journaled?
Click to expand...
A journal is useful if the OS has a chance to use the journal. The journal is nonsense for disk images, which you convert later to read-only and/or compressed disk images. Journals are not supported on read-only media, such as standard CDs/DVDs. HFS+ is also a little faster than HFS+ Journaled. Sometimes, the kernel uses the journal in the wrong way, which results in files, which have a length of zero bytes. And so on...

HFS+ Journaled is useful for faster reboots, after unexpected restarts, and only on read/write startup disks.
 
Here's where you DON'T want journaled

if you run a Mac system (no PC ) and you have a media player that is not made by Apple - then you can't format an external drive FAT32 because you can't transfer over a Hi Def movie (>5GB). If you format with 'journaled' the media player tends to corrupt the file system and render the drive unusable by the mac and risk reformatting and losing all your media ... That's why a Non-journaled option is required ... so anyone find a solution to the original question?
 
lcouri said:
if you run a Mac system (no PC ) and you have a media player that is not made by Apple - then you can't format an external drive FAT32 because you can't transfer over a Hi Def movie (>5GB). If you format with 'journaled' the media player tends to corrupt the file system and render the drive unusable by the mac and risk reformatting and losing all your media ... That's why a Non-journaled option is required ... so anyone find a solution to the original question?
Click to expand...
I have an 1.5 TB IOmega external hard drive on which I have numerous "instructional videos." The external hard drive is formatted HFS+ Journaled. I use a third-party player to play the videos. After about 2.5 years owning the drive, I have not a hint of corruption.

Yours is the very first report I have ever heard that HFS+ Journaled is incompatible with any software of any kind from any source. On its face, your post sounds silly. HFS+ Journaled like every other journaled file system is designed to mitigate file corruption. If any of what you claim were true, then HFS+ would be an abject failure.

Two questions:
  1. Which third-party media player(s) is(are) incompatible with HFS+ Journaled?
  2. What is your source of this information? (Link please.)
 
MisterMe said:
Yours is the very first report I have ever heard that HFS+ Journaled is incompatible with any software of any kind from any source. On its face, your post sounds silly. HFS+ Journaled like every other journaled file system is designed to mitigate file corruption.
Click to expand...
I agree! It sounds completely bogus. Now there's a roughly a 33% chance that you'll get a response, as that was that poster's first and only post in the forum.
 
Before you call something "silly" or "bogus", try reading a little bit. A novel concept, I know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFS_Plus

If all you ever use are Apple products, then maybe not being able to use a non-journaled file system is a non-issue. It was already explained to you, if you had bothered to read, that it presents a challenge when the file system needs to be accessed by other platforms. Linux systems in particular currently cannot write to HFS+ journaled file systems, and there are many appliances that are based on a Linux kernel. At one time I used an external drive as a shared backup medium for Mac and Linux; this will no longer be possible. There are other valid reasons for choosing a non-journaled file system, which other posters have already pointed out. I won't repeat them, since you are clearly too busy playing with your Ipad to pay any attention.

GGJstudios said:
I agree! It sounds completely bogus. Now there's a roughly a 33% chance that you'll get a response, as that was that poster's first and only post in the forum.
Click to expand...
 
velopunk said:
Before you call something "silly" or "bogus", try reading a little bit.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it was silly or bogus. I said it sounds bogus.
velopunk said:
If all you ever use are Apple products, then maybe not being able to use a non-journaled file system is a non-issue.
Click to expand...
I don't only use Apple products. I've never had any issues accessing a journaled drive.
velopunk said:
Linux systems in particular currently cannot write to HFS+ journaled file systems, and there are many appliances that are based on a Linux kernel.
Click to expand...
The Linux issue has already been discussed. The post by Icouri referenced Mac and PC, not Linux.
velopunk said:
There are other valid reasons for choosing a non-journaled file system, which other posters have already pointed out.
Click to expand...
I realize that. I have, after all, read the thread.
velopunk said:
I won't repeat them, since you are clearly too busy playing with your Ipad to pay any attention.
Click to expand...
I've never owned an iPad and I am paying attention. Your first and only post in this forum isn't a great way to introduce yourself. Now there's a 33% chance that we'll ever hear from you again. :rolleyes:
 
velopunk said:
... Linux systems in particular currently cannot write to HFS+ journaled file systems, and there are many appliances that are based on a Linux kernel. At one time I used an external drive as a shared backup medium for Mac and Linux; this will no longer be possible. There are other valid reasons for choosing a non-journaled file system, which other posters have already pointed out. I won't repeat them, since you are clearly too busy playing with your Ipad to pay any attention.
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting the link. I now understand that Linux cannot handle HFS+ Journaled and that Apple supports only HFS+ write access on Windows. In the case of Windows, I see nothing to indicate that journaling is an aggravating factor. The issues that you have are permutations of these two issues. The issues that others in this thread have addressed are also permutations of these same two issues. To your credit, you provided an authority for your comment. Despite you claims of additional issues that you don't want to discuss, however, I see no other issues for you to discuss.

Understand that the issues that bedevil you and the other dissatisfied Windows and Linux users are limitations in Windows and Linux. They are not limitations in HFS+ or HFS+ Journaled. If you want or need to use Linux and Windows in the way that you used them in the past, then you should do what Mac users do when we need to use Windows. We suck it up and install free or commercial software that solves or mitigates our issues. Then we do our work.
 
Use command line

Just in case anyone is googling this, the way to get around this is to use diskutil(8) at the command line.

diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ VolumeName /dev/disk2s3

as an example.

"HFS+" will give you a regular non-journaled filesystem. The journaled equivalent is "JHFS+".
 
Re: Use command line

goat10000 thank you! Exactly what I needed to get my disk talking between linux and mac. Always nice to know that Apple can restrict stuff all they want in the GUI - its still BSD under the hood.


goat10000 said:
Just in case anyone is googling this, the way to get around this is to use diskutil(8) at the command line.

diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ VolumeName /dev/disk2s3

as an example.

"HFS+" will give you a regular non-journaled filesystem. The journaled equivalent is "JHFS+".
Click to expand...
 
Use Disk Utility to create an HFS+ (not journaled)

kelpie77 said:
goat10000 thank you! Exactly what I needed to get my disk talking between linux and mac. Always nice to know that Apple can restrict stuff all they want in the GUI - its still BSD under the hood.
Click to expand...

A quicker way I found to format as HFS+ (not journaled) in Mountain Lion still using the Disk Utility GUI is to format as HFS+ (Journaled), then Disable Journalling using Disk Utility. Steps are: with the newly created HFS+ (Journaled) partition/volume highlighted, hold down Option key and select File menu, and the Disable Journaling option appears - select it. This will take a few seconds and you will have an HFS+ (not journaled) volume.

Worked great for me in setting up an external (USB attached) drive to my NAS (LaCie d2 Network 2).

Thanks to post here for the insight --> http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1081985-how-can-i-disable-journaling-on-an-external-drive/
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back