Studio display natural resolution?

[ninethirty]

I received my studio display yesterday, and originally hooked it up with my M1 MBP. Resolution looked pretty good (ie, things aren't huge and I can fit a decent amount on the screen). Then I hooked it up to my work computer, which is a 2 year old MBP, running Big Sur (our IT dept is always behind), and the resolution looks different. Everything looks huge and chunky on the screen. I went into system preferences, looked at displays, and it's also set at "best for display" as opposed to scaled. If I choose scaled, it shows that it's second from the left, as opposed to in the middle. If I click the middle option, the resolution looks more like when it's hooked up to my M1 MBP, but also isn't quite as sharp.

Anyone know what's going on?

What's the natural (no scaling) resolution for this display? Could Big Sur be causing the problem?

 

[Amethyst1]

What's the natural (no scaling) resolution for this display?

“Looks like 2560×1440” in terms of macOS HiDPI modes.
The panel’s native physical resolution is 5120×2880.

It sounds like your work MBP (what model is it exactly?) might only be outputting 3840×2160. Use e.g. SwitchResX to check the actual timing.

And yes, it’s possible Big Sur is causing this.

 

[ninethirty]

“Looks like 2560×1440” in terms of macOS HiDPI modes.
The panel’s native physical resolution is 5120×2880.

It sounds like your work MBP (what model is it exactly?) might only be outputting 3840×2160. Use e.g. SwitchResX to check the actual timing.

And yes, it’s possible Big Sur is causing this.

I can't find the actual model # right now, but it's the last 17" MBP w/ Touch Bar that Apple made.

Our IT department is unlikely to upgrade to Monterey anytime in the next year, what would you suggest I set the display to, to get the most out of it?

 

[Amethyst1]

[...] what would you suggest I set the display to, to get the most out of it?

Depends on how you define that.

In terms of providing a decent amount of real estate, the normal-default (or recommended) setting is "Looks like 2560×1440".

The sharpest setting is always the one that is a quarter of the actual timing, so if that is 3840×2160 as I'm inclined to suspect based on your description, "Looks like 1920×1080" is the sharpest but will be slightly blurry anyway as the display is upscaling a 3840×2160 signal to 5120×2880 to fill the screen.

I'd be very interested in knowing the actual timing the display is running at. Are you allowed/able to install software on that MBP? If so, you could install SwitchResX, open it, click on the Studio Display on the left, open the "Available resolutions" tab on the right and double-click on the currently selected resolution (it has a radio button checkbox next to it). Post a screenshot of the window that opens; it will have lots of numbers on it.

If you're not allowed/able to install software, you can run a diagnostics command built right into macOS instead. Open a Terminal window and enter/paste the following:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1

This will create a file called AGDCDiagnose_a.txt in your home (user) folder. Compress it to a .zip file and attach it here.

 

[ninethirty]

Depends on how you define that.

In terms of providing a decent amount of real estate, the normal-default (or recommended) setting is "Looks like 2560×1440".

The sharpest setting is always the one that is a quarter of the actual timing, so if that is 3840×2160 as I'm inclined to suspect based on your description, "Looks like 1920×1080" is the sharpest but will be slightly blurry anyway as the display is upscaling a 3840×2160 signal to 5120×2880 to fill the screen.

I'd be very interested in knowing the actual timing the display is running at. Are you allowed/able to install software on that MBP? If so, you could install SwitchResX, open it, click on the Studio Display on the left, open the "Available resolutions" tab on the right and double-click on the currently selected resolution (it has a radio button checkbox next to it). Post a screenshot of the window that opens; it will have lots of numbers on it.

If you're not allowed/able to install software, you can run a diagnostics command built right into macOS instead. Open a Terminal window and enter/paste the following:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1

This will create a file called AGDCDiagnose_a.txt in your home (user) folder. Compress it to a .zip file and attach it here.

Sure, here's the screenshot.

 

[ninethirty]

Depends on how you define that.

In terms of providing a decent amount of real estate, the normal-default (or recommended) setting is "Looks like 2560×1440".

The sharpest setting is always the one that is a quarter of the actual timing, so if that is 3840×2160 as I'm inclined to suspect based on your description, "Looks like 1920×1080" is the sharpest but will be slightly blurry anyway as the display is upscaling a 3840×2160 signal to 5120×2880 to fill the screen.

I'd be very interested in knowing the actual timing the display is running at. Are you allowed/able to install software on that MBP? If so, you could install SwitchResX, open it, click on the Studio Display on the left, open the "Available resolutions" tab on the right and double-click on the currently selected resolution (it has a radio button checkbox next to it). Post a screenshot of the window that opens; it will have lots of numbers on it.

If you're not allowed/able to install software, you can run a diagnostics command built right into macOS instead. Open a Terminal window and enter/paste the following:

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1

This will create a file called AGDCDiagnose_a.txt in your home (user) folder. Compress it to a .zip file and attach it here.

I just double checked also, on my Big Sur machine, it seems to think that the default for the display is 1920x1080. If I switch to scaled for display, the one that's automatically selected, with no res change, is the second to the left option. Switching to the 2560x1440 option gives me the resolution look I'm after, but things feel slightly fuzzy.

On my M1 MBP, the default for display is 2560x1440. If I switch to scaled, the default is the middle option.

 

[Amethyst1]

Sure, here's the screenshot.

Thanks. As I suspected: your work MBP is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 (see the "Active" line), not at 5120×2880. The display upscales that to fill the screen. On top of that, you're running at "Looks like 2560×1440", so macOS downscales a 5120×2880 framebuffer (see the "Scale to" line) to a 3840×2160 output. This explains the blurriness you're seeing.

Apart from upgrading to Monterey, there's a few things to check:

• Is the Studio Display the only display connected to your work MBP?
• Is it connected using the same Thunderbolt 3 cable that you use with your M1 MBP?
• Is it connected directly or using a dock/hub?

Could you do the following for me? Open SwitchResX, click on the Studio Display on the left, and then click the "Export EDID" button on the right. This creates a text file (probably named Studio Display) in your Documents folder. Can you attach that file here? Thanks in advance!

I just double checked also, on my Big Sur machine, it seems to think that the default for the display is 1920x1080.

This also implies Big Sur is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 rather than 5120×2880. What Mac is this?

 

[ninethirty]

Thanks. As I suspected: your work MBP is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 (see the "Active" line), not at 5120×2880. The display upscales that to fill the screen. On top of that, you're running at "Looks like 2560×1440", so macOS downscales a 5120×2880 framebuffer (see the "Scale to" line) to a 3840×2160 output. This explains the blurriness you're seeing.

Apart from upgrading to Monterey, there's a few things to check:

• Is the Studio Display the only display connected to your work MBP?
• Is it connected using the same Thunderbolt 3 cable that you use with your M1 MBP?
• Is it connected directly or using a dock/hub?

Could you do the following for me? Open SwitchResX, click on the Studio Display on the left, and then click the "Export EDID" button on the right. This creates a text file (probably named Studio Display) in your Documents folder. Can you attach that file here? Thanks in advance!


This also implies Big Sur is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 rather than 5120×2880. What Mac is this?

Re: your questions:

• Only display
• Same cable
• No dock/hub

File is attached.

By the way, thanks for the help and information. I think it's highly unlikely that we'll be upgrading anytime soon, unfortunately.

 

[ninethirty]

Thanks. As I suspected: your work MBP is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 (see the "Active" line), not at 5120×2880. The display upscales that to fill the screen. On top of that, you're running at "Looks like 2560×1440", so macOS downscales a 5120×2880 framebuffer (see the "Scale to" line) to a 3840×2160 output. This explains the blurriness you're seeing.

Apart from upgrading to Monterey, there's a few things to check:

• Is the Studio Display the only display connected to your work MBP?
• Is it connected using the same Thunderbolt 3 cable that you use with your M1 MBP?
• Is it connected directly or using a dock/hub?

Could you do the following for me? Open SwitchResX, click on the Studio Display on the left, and then click the "Export EDID" button on the right. This creates a text file (probably named Studio Display) in your Documents folder. Can you attach that file here? Thanks in advance!


This also implies Big Sur is driving the Studio Display at 3840×2160 rather than 5120×2880. What Mac is this?

Oh and the Mac is the MacBook Pro 16 inch (sorry, I said 17 earlier), 2019. With Touch Bar. Running 11.2.3 Big Sur. 64 gigs of ram, AMD Radeon Pro 5500 8 GB. Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB.

 

[Amethyst1]

File is attached.

Thanks.

This particular EDID* reveals the Studio Display can be set up as a two-tiled 5120×2880 display which means it requires two discrete DisplayPort signals, each driving one half of the panel at 2560×2880, encapsulated in a Thunderbolt 3 stream. Big Sur doesn't know how to handle the two halves (Monterey 12.3 does) and defaults to the first non-tiled resolution in the EDID: 3840×2160 at 60 Hz.

But if I'm reading the EDID correctly, there's also a non-tiled 5120×2880 60 Hz mode. Does this mode show up in SwitchResX's "Available resolutions" tab?

If it does not and you're willing to perform some experiments:

With the MBP's screen set as the main screen (so you can make adjustments if the Studio Display turns black), open the "Custom Resolutions" tab in SwitchResX after selecting the Studio Display and click "+".
Check "Use simplified settings" (or something like that), "Standard", select "CVT-RBv2" and enter 5120 pixels by 2880 lines (first row). Enter 60 Hz as the vertical scan rate (towards the bottom of the window). Click "OK", File > Save, "Activate immediately". Does the mode show up as "Active" or "Invalid"?
If "Active"...
Check the "Available resolutions" tab: does 5120×2880 at 60 Hz show up in the list of resolutions? Make sure it doesn't say "Scaled" or "HiDPI" next to it. Click the radio button next to it. Does the Studio Display accept that?
If Invalid" or the display turns black or otherwise acts up...
Edit the mode you just created by clicking the "pen" symbol, and reduce the vertical scan rate to 38 Hz. Try saving and activating this mode. Does that work?

Oh and the Mac is the MacBook Pro 16 inch (sorry, I said 17 earlier), 2019. With Touch Bar. Running 11.2.3 Big Sur. 64 gigs of ram, AMD Radeon Pro 5500 8 GB. Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB.

That machine is definitely capable of pushing 5120×2880 at 60 Hz, both tiled and non-tiled.

* It's possible the display has more than one EDID (like the Pro Display XDR) depending on how it's connected.

 

[ninethirty]

Thanks.

This particular EDID* reveals the Studio Display can be set up as a two-tiled 5120×2880 display which means it requires two discrete DisplayPort signals, each driving one half of the panel at 2560×2880, encapsulated in a Thunderbolt 3 stream. Big Sur doesn't know how to handle the two halves (Monterey 12.3 does) and defaults to the first non-tiled resolution in the EDID: 3840×2160 at 60 Hz.

But if I'm reading the EDID correctly, there's also a non-tiled 5120×2880 60 Hz mode. Does this mode show up in SwitchResX's "Available resolutions" tab?

If it does not and you're willing to perform some experiments:

With the MBP's screen set as the main screen (so you can make adjustments if the Studio Display turns black), open the "Custom Resolutions" tab in SwitchResX after selecting the Studio Display and click "+".
Check "Use simplified settings" (or something like that), "Standard", select "CVT-RBv2" and enter 5120 pixels by 2880 lines (first row). Enter 60 Hz as the vertical scan rate (towards the bottom of the window). Click "OK", File > Save, "Activate immediately". Does the mode show up as "Active" or "Invalid"?
If "Active"...
Check the "Available resolutions" tab: does 5120×2880 at 60 Hz show up in the list of resolutions? Make sure it doesn't say "Scaled" or "HiDPI" next to it. Click the radio button next to it. Does the Studio Display accept that?
If Invalid" or the display turns black or otherwise acts up...
Edit the mode you just created by clicking the "pen" symbol, and reduce the vertical scan rate to 38 Hz. Try saving and activating this mode. Does that work?



That machine is definitely capable of pushing 5120×2880 at 60 Hz, both tiled and non-tiled.

* It's possible the display has more than one EDID (like the Pro Display XDR) depending on how it's connected.

Ok, I tried what you suggested. After activating immediately, the display still runs, though it looks like it's the 1920x1080 still. When I go to the available resolutions, 5120x2880 at 60hz does show up, and if I click that radio button, the resolution becomes that. Everything is incredibly tiny. Way more tiny than what I'd want to work at. I think I like the resolution that my M1 MBP displays best, which I think is 2560x1440

Edit: Using that same list of of current resolutions, if I click 2560x1440 w/ HiDPI, the screen looks pretty good, although I can't quite tell if it's as sharp as it should be. Is that my best option for now?

 

[Amethyst1]

Using that same list of of current resolutions, if I click 2560x1440 w/ HiDPI, the screen looks pretty good, although I can't quite tell if it's as sharp as it should be. Is that my best option for now?

Double-click that 2560×1440 HiDPI option: Does the "Active" line read 5120 pixels by 2880 lines?
If it does, that's the correct and sharpest setting.
If it reads 3840 pixels by 2160 lines, that's what you had before. In this case, the scaled resolution base needs to be set to 5120×2880. You can set that right on the first tab after clicking on StudioDisplay on the left.

 

[ninethirty]

Double-click that 2560×1440 HiDPI option: Does the "Active" line read 5120 pixels by 2880 lines?
If it does, that's the correct and sharpest setting.
If it reads 3840 pixels by 2160 lines, that's what you had before. In this case, the scaled resolution base needs to be set to 5120×2880. You can set that right on the first tab after clicking on StudioDisplay on the left.

Yeah, it's 3840x2160. I set the scaled resolution base to 5120x2880 the way you suggested, but there's nothing to click activate, nothing changed. Anything I need to do now?

 

[Amethyst1]

I set the scaled resolution base to 5120x2880 the way you suggested, but there's nothing to click activate, nothing changed. Anything I need to do now?

Disconnect and reconnect the Studio Display or reboot the MBP.

Can you double-click the custom 5120×2880 60 Hz mode you created and post a screenshot of the timing’s details? Just to check if this looks alright.

 

[ninethirty]

Disconnect and reconnect the Studio Display or reboot the MBP.

Can you double-click the custom 5120×2880 60 Hz mode you created and post a screenshot of the timing’s details? Just to check if this looks alright.

Sure. Here's two screenshots. The double click on that customer mode I created, but just to be clear, I don't think we're using that mode. I'm using the one at 2560x1440 (see screenshot).

Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[Amethyst1]

The double click on that customer mode I created, [...]

Hm. That's a 3840×2160 mode with a "Looks like 2560×1440" HiDPI mode on top of it, not a 5120×2880 one.

Try deleting your custom 5120×2880 mode and recreating it with the following settings taken straight from the display's EDID:

The greyed-out Blanking and Total rows will be filled by SwitchResX; fill in the other values as shown in the screenshot but use a point . as the decimal separator for Pixel Clock and Scan rate (my macOS is normally set to German which is why there's a comma instead, sorry!).

File > Save settings and Activate immediately. Test the mode. If it works (everything will be tiny but what matters is: does the Studio Display display it properly?), set the Scaled resolution base to 5120×2880 and reboot. Try the 2560×1440 HiDPI mode next, double-clicking to check if the Active row reads 5120 pixels by 2880 lines.

 

[ninethirty]

Hm. That's a 3840×2160 mode with a "Looks like 2560×1440" HiDPI mode on top of it, not a 5120×2880 one.

Try deleting your custom 5120×2880 mode and recreating it with the following settings taken straight from the display's EDID:

View attachment 1976671

The greyed-out Blanking and Total rows will be filled by SwitchResX; fill in the other values as shown in the screenshot but use a point . as the decimal separator for Pixel Clock and Scan rate (my macOS is normally set to German which is why there's a comma instead, sorry!).

File > Save settings and Activate immediately. Test the mode. If it works (everything will be tiny but what matters is: does the Studio Display display it properly?), set the Scaled resolution base to 5120×2880 and reboot. Try the 2560×1440 HiDPI mode next, double-clicking to check if the Active row reads 5120 pixels by 2880 lines.

Ok, just making dinner right now, but just like that? Not clicking "simplified settings" like we did before?

 

[Amethyst1]

Ok, just making dinner right now, but just like that? Not clicking "simplified settings" like we did before?

No, enter everything manually

 

[ninethirty]

Hm. That's a 3840×2160 mode with a "Looks like 2560×1440" HiDPI mode on top of it, not a 5120×2880 one.

Try deleting your custom 5120×2880 mode and recreating it with the following settings taken straight from the display's EDID:

View attachment 1976671

The greyed-out Blanking and Total rows will be filled by SwitchResX; fill in the other values as shown in the screenshot but use a point . as the decimal separator for Pixel Clock and Scan rate (my macOS is normally set to German which is why there's a comma instead, sorry!).

File > Save settings and Activate immediately. Test the mode. If it works (everything will be tiny but what matters is: does the Studio Display display it properly?), set the Scaled resolution base to 5120×2880 and reboot. Try the 2560×1440 HiDPI mode next, double-clicking to check if the Active row reads 5120 pixels by 2880 lines.

Ok, so I just noticed that after following all your instructions, the custom settings (after pressing "activate now" shows "not activated - invalid?"

Double clicking the 2560x1440 still shows active as 3840x2160

 

[Zdigital2015]

The 27” Studio Display requires macOS Monterrey 12:3 or later. Says so on the specs page at apple.com. Upgrade to 12.3 on your work computer is the only way to enable all the features and apparently that includes the correct resolutions and scaling.

Source: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/

 

[Zdigital2015]

Oh and the Mac is the MacBook Pro 16 inch (sorry, I said 17 earlier), 2019. With Touch Bar. Running 11.2.3 Big Sur. 64 gigs of ram, AMD Radeon Pro 5500 8 GB. Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB.

macOS Big Sur is now at 11.6.5…you should see if you can at least update to the latest version of Big Sur unless there is a specific reason why they’ve left your MBP that far back.

 

[Lucas Curious]

does it make sense to set the ASD to 3200x1800 scaling? I sit an arms length form the screen. For some reason the MBP 16" isnt all that comfortable at 2056x1329. These are the smallest text, most space scales. What is the real advantage of choosing the most space settings?

 

[Amethyst1]

Ok, so I just noticed that after following all your instructions, the custom settings (after pressing "activate now" shows "not activated - invalid?"

The “Display Information” tab displays a pixel clock range. What’s the upper limit? (If you’re not sure, post a screenshot.)

 

[ninethirty]

The “Display Information” tab displays a pixel clock range. What’s the upper limit? (If you’re not sure, post a screenshot.)

0.04 - 1284.00

 

[Amethyst1]

0.04 - 1284.00

That implies a limited pixel clock range is not the reason the 5K60 timing is rejected.

@joevt — Any ideas?