TB5 v. TB4

[ufgatorvet]

For everyday "normal" uses, how much value does TB5 (Pro) v. TB4 (std) add? Are there peripherals now or on the horizon that would absolutely benefit from TB5? Yeah, crystal ball stuff, I know.

 

[theluggage]

For everyday "normal" uses,

Define 'everyday "normal" uses'...

Just to be clear - of course the new capabilities of TB5 will be welcomed by more demanding users with specialist requirements and it is good that they're included in the M4 Pro - but the reality is many users are already barely using the full capabilities of TB4 and a large proportion of current peripherals are still using USB 3 over USB-C.

I'd say that 5 or 10Gbps USB 3.1 is already adequate for many users and if they're using TB4 it's most likely to run a 5k display or mix 4k displays and USB3 on a hub. USB 3.1g2 is fast enough for all but the most expensive single SSDs.

I guess the most widely-used advantage of TB5 is going to be to drive higher-resolution, higher-refresh displays - and that maybe Apple will produce new studio/pro displays to take advantage of that... but they ain't gonna be cheap! Also, you can now run 3 displays via a hub from a single TB port.

I think for the immediate future it's something to file under "future proofing" - it wouldn't make me get the M4 Pro over the M4 unless there were other reasons (such as needing the larger RAM or more CPU/GPU cores) and I suspect anybody who really needs TB5 in the immediate future will be waiting on the (hopefully coming eventually) M4 Max Studio to actually process all of those 120Gbps streams.

 

[ufgatorvet]

Define 'everyday "normal" uses'...

Just to be clear - of course the new capabilities of TB5 will be welcomed by more demanding users with specialist requirements and it is good that they're included in the M4 Pro - but the reality is many users are already barely using the full capabilities of TB4 and a large proportion of current peripherals are still using USB 3 over USB-C.

I'd say that 5 or 10Gbps USB 3.1 is already adequate for many users and if they're using TB4 it's most likely to run a 5k display or mix 4k displays and USB3 on a hub. USB 3.1g2 is fast enough for all but the most expensive single SSDs.

I guess the most widely-used advantage of TB5 is going to be to drive higher-resolution, higher-refresh displays - and that maybe Apple will produce new studio/pro displays to take advantage of that... but they ain't gonna be cheap! Also, you can now run 3 displays via a hub from a single TB port.

I think for the immediate future it's something to file under "future proofing" - it wouldn't make me get the M4 Pro over the M4 unless there were other reasons (such as needing the larger RAM or more CPU/GPU cores) and I suspect anybody who really needs TB5 in the immediate future will be waiting on the (hopefully coming eventually) M4 Max Studio to actually process all of those 120Gbps streams.

Thank you for that explanation. That makes sense and helps me to decide.

 

[Adora]

I want a version of TB that supports external RAM somehow with an PCIe extension card in an adapter box or so.

How much speed do I need for that?

 

[waloshin]

I want a version of TB that supports external RAM somehow with an PCIe extension card in an adapter box or so.

How much speed do I need for that?

That would be maybe Thunderbolt 6 or 7 Thunderbolt 5 is not fast enough to transfer Ram speeds yet. Thunderbolt 5 supports 10 GB/s Ram is at least 20 GB/s if not faster now.

 

[drrich2]

Are there peripherals now or on the horizon that would absolutely benefit from TB5?

Slim pickings so far, but here's a thread asking about what TB 5 peripherals are out there or announced.

I suppose the big question is do you want high performance from an external SSD beyond Thunderbolt 3 speeds and/or multiple monitors and/or some hypothetical future 5K 120-Hz or similar display, possibly rooted through a dock to occupy one of your computer's Thunderbolt 5 ports.

Richard.

 

[Adora]

That would be maybe Thunderbolt 6 or 7 Thunderbolt 5 is not fast enough to transfer Ram speeds yet. Thunderbolt 5 supports 10 GB/s Ram is at least 20 GB/s if not faster now.

Thanks. I guess it will somehow not be possible to add much cheaper RAM that way. I don't even know if RAM extension cards exist and if it's really cheaper to buy this together with an adapter for that card and if special driver support is needed.

This just came to my mind because many people tried to use TB3 for external GPUs a few years ago.

 

[theluggage]

I want a version of TB that supports external RAM somehow with an PCIe extension card in an adapter box or so.

Yay! Bring back the S100 bus!

How much speed do I need for that?

The M4 Pro has 273 Gigabytes per second memory bandwidth. I.e. something like 2,200 Gigabits per second...

Thunderbolt 5 has 120 Gigabits per second max bandwidth (and that's in 'boost' mode - haven't looked into the limitations of that yet).

So there's that... and there's probably designing an entirely new memory controller architecture to support remote RAM over Thunderbolt and map it in to the address space...

I.e. don't hold your breath.

I do wonder whether you could use a fast RAM disc (which could be external) as virtual memory/swap space - it would be s lot faster than swapping to flash (and wouldn't risk wearing out the flash) but not in the same league as regular RAM.

 

[Fishrrman]

Seems to me that unless you know WHY you need tbolt5 instead of tbolt4, then you don't really need it (yet)...

 

[rybak17]

• Supporting the latest version of USB4 2.0 80 Gbit/s specification
• Two times the total bandwidth of Thunderbolt 4 to 80 Gbit/s, while providing up to three times the bandwidth to 120 Gbit/s for video-intensive uses (Faster SSDs)
• Support for DisplayPort 2.1 (5K/6K@120Hz, 3 x 4K@144Hz) - Thunderbolt 4 has DisplayPort 1.4.
• Two times (64 Gbit/s) the PCI Express data-throughput using PCI Express Gen. 4 x4, for faster storage and external graphics (Only PC)
• Up to 240 W of charging power downstream (140W TB5 docks)
• Faster Mac Mini cluster?

 

[PaulD-UK]

@rybak17 "Supporting the latest version of USB4 2.0 80 Gbit/s specification"

Apple's (so far) not doing that.
From their M4Pro/Max Tech Specs pages:

• Three Thunderbolt 5 (USB-C) ports with support for:
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt 5 (up to 120Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)