TextEdit is really stupid

[davidlv]

Clean install 10.9 on late 2011 MBP, having trouble with TextEdit files getting weird permissions, Everyone gets a Custom Read and Write permission and the file cannot be saved. That happens even after running Terminal from the Recovery Partition and using the resetpassword - set Home folder permissions trick.
MS Word files in the same folder shown no such symptoms and can be saved.

TextEdit needs some work Apple !!

 

[josh.b]

Clean install 10.9 on late 2011 MBP, having trouble with TextEdit files getting weird permissions, Everyone gets a Custom Read and Write permission and the file cannot be saved. That happens even after running Terminal from the Recovery Partition and using the resetpassword - set Home folder permissions trick.
MS Word files in the same folder shown no such symptoms and can be saved.

TextEdit needs some work Apple !!

well since no one else has this issue I think you caused it. Can't just blame it on Apple when screwing around in the terminal.

Sounds like you should just do another clean install. Will probably take less time than figuring out the command line solution.

 

[Sital]

well since no one else has this issue I think you caused it. Can't just blame it on Apple when screwing around in the terminal.

Sounds like you should just do another clean install. Will probably take less time than figuring out the command line solution.

It sounds like he had the issue before using Terminal, but in general your point is valid.

 

[Weaselboy]

well since no one else has this issue I think you caused it. Can't just blame it on Apple when screwing around in the terminal.

Sounds like you should just do another clean install. Will probably take less time than figuring out the command line solution.

I don't think you understand what he did. He was not "screwing around in Terminal." All he did was type resetpassword in Terminal from the recovery partition to access the below GUI that resets user permissions and ACLs to their default settings. This is an Apple supported permissions repair technique and would not cause the issue OP is having.

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Clean install 10.9 on late 2011 MBP, having trouble with TextEdit files getting weird permissions, Everyone gets a Custom Read and Write permission and the file cannot be saved. That happens even after running Terminal from the Recovery Partition and using the resetpassword - set Home folder permissions trick.
MS Word files in the same folder shown no such symptoms and can be saved.

TextEdit needs some work Apple !!

Can you explain more what you are seeing. I am able to create new Text Edit files and save them and they seem to have the correct, default permissions.

So if you open text edit and type a bit then hit command-s to save, what happens?

 

[davidlv]

I don't think you understand what he did. He was not "screwing around in Terminal." All he did was type resetpassword in Terminal from the recovery partition to access the below GUI that resets user permissions and ACLs to their default settings. This is an Apple supported permissions repair technique and would not cause the issue OP is having.

Image

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Can you explain more what you are seeing. I am able to create new Text Edit files and save them and they seem to have the correct, default permissions.

So if you open text edit and type a bit then hit command-s to save, what happens?

Ah... the voice of sanity, I was being to think MacRumours had degenerated to the level where bibs are required to catch all the drivel ....
The issue is not constant. I have some rtf textedit files I use as quick notes, for cases where firing up MS Word is overkill. I have checked the permissions of these files, all residing in a subfolder of my Home folder, after resetting the permissions, and they appear correct. Then, again not always but sometimes, I will open one of these files, make changes and out of habit type Command + s to save the file and Finder pops up a box saying I don't have the necessary permissions. No way to save the changes, so I have to quit TextEdit. Checking the problematic file, I see the permissions have changed, with an extra Everyone added to the top of the list, with Custom access rights. That item cannot be deleted. Essentially, the file becomes unusable and I have to open it, copy all, open a new file, paste everything and save it to a different name, then delete the old file.
After running the reset procedure, and the corresponding procedure in Onyx, things have settled down, no repeats so far (holds breath).
I suspect this issue is related to TextEdit's automatic save "feature", just a guess actually.
I have seen other weird permissions issues too. Printer driver plist, etc.
It is a point zero release, so maybe this will get fixed in the next updates.

 

[Weaselboy]

After running the reset procedure, and the corresponding procedure in Onyx, things have settled down, no repeats so far (holds breath).

I suspect this issue is related to TextEdit's automatic save "feature", just a guess actually.

I have seen other weird permissions issues too. Printer driver plist, etc.
It is a point zero release, so maybe this will get fixed in the next updates.

I get the printer driver error every time with permissions repair also, so that one is not just you.

If you make a new Text Edit document and just save it in the default .txt format does that give your username read/write rights?

 

[davidlv]

I get the printer driver error every time with permissions repair also, so that one is not just you.

I have found the booting into the recovery partition and running repair permission from there will make the repairs "stick" for a while, but the issue returns after some time.

If you make a new Text Edit document and just save it in the default .txt format does that give your username read/write rights?

Yes, a new document gets saved with the correct permission, although I tend to use the rich text format and the rtf extension rather than plain text (txt). I will try saving to a plain text file with a different name as a test.
In any case, what I have seen is that my TextEdit files get that weird Custom permission at random times. The cause is not yet known.

I have seen other strange issues with 10.9, such as the random appearance of the usually hidden dev and home folders at the root of a drive, usually external USB 2 or firewire backup drives. CCC hides those (intentionally, according to Mike Bombich the author of CCC, as that issue apparently has a bad past history).

Overall, and even with this type of issue, I am quite pleased with Mavericks, and I think that once the dust settles we will have a winner. Maybe by 10.9.4 or so?

 

[petsounds]

It might help us to help you if you're a bit more specific about the kind of permissions being set on these files. Such as, 1) is the owner set to a different user than normal, 2) what are the actual permissions, are they consistent or random? Also, are you sure this is the only app that's saving weird permissions? I only ask because it's possible there's a problem with the disk itself, and you might consider running Disk Utility.

 

[davidlv]

It might help us to help you if you're a bit more specific about the kind of permissions being set on these files. Such as, 1) is the owner set to a different user than normal, 2) what are the actual permissions, are they consistent or random? Also, are you sure this is the only app that's saving weird permissions? I only ask because it's possible there's a problem with the disk itself, and you might consider running Disk Utility.

I have run Disk Utility and Disk Warrior as well, and neither will produce errors, even when the issue is present. So I do not think the disk is the source of the issue.
Normal Permissions (after running Apple's reset home folder permissions procedure as described above) are in order from top down; myname (Me) - Read & Write, staff - Read only, everyone - Read Only.
When the issue occurs the top myname (Me) entry gets changed to "everyone - Custom" (so yes there are then 2 "everyone" entries. And that Custom permission cannot be deleted, and changes to the file cannot be saved. So in that sense, the issue is constant.
Thankfully, it hasn't reared its ugly head for a day or so.
And I am moving away from using TextEdit, as there are other ways to do the same thing, including using Word. The files affected are usually files left over from ML days, but one file I know I created after updating to 10.9 had the issue too. In that sense, it is random.
I am not sure that other apps are not creating weird permissions, and with all of the issues reported, I would expect that at least some of those issues have "permissions" aspects, either as a result of other causes or as a cause.
All of Apple's .0 releases have had problems, and Mavericks is certainly not an exception.

 

[petsounds]

Normal Permissions (after running Apple's reset home folder permissions procedure as described above) are in order from top down; myname (Me) - Read & Write, staff - Read only, everyone - Read Only.
When the issue occurs the top myname (Me) entry gets changed to "everyone - Custom" (so yes there are then 2 "everyone" entries. And that Custom permission cannot be deleted, and changes to the file cannot be saved. So in that sense, the issue is constant.
Thankfully, it hasn't reared its ugly head for a day or so.
And I am moving away from using TextEdit, as there are other ways to do the same thing, including using Word. The files affected are usually files left over from ML days, but one file I know I created after updating to 10.9 had the issue too. In that sense, it is random.

That's bizarre, I've never seen an issue like that. I wonder what the actual file owner gets set to, if not you. Hopefully this will get worked out in the next update.

I don't actually use TextEdit, I find it rather useless. If you're looking for a lighter-weight RTF editing app than Word, I use Nisus Writer Pro for writing, which can import and export Word files. It's sold for $79, and there's a $49 Express version.

 

[Bruno09]

Normal Permissions (after running Apple's reset home folder permissions procedure as described above) are in order from top down; myname (Me) - Read & Write, staff - Read only, everyone - Read Only.

That item cannot be deleted. Essentially, the file becomes unusable and I have to open it, copy all, open a new file, paste everything and save it to a different name, then delete the old file.

This is much more about ownership rather than permissions.

When the problem occurs, in "sharing and permissions", click the gear icon : can you click "Make (Me) the owner" ?

If yes, the file did not belong to you, hence you were not able to delete or modify it.

If you make you the owner, the problem should be solved for that file.

Well, this doesn't explain why the problem happens anyway.

 

[davidlv]

This is much more about ownership rather than permissions.

When the problem occurs, in "sharing and permissions", click the gear icon : can you click "Make (Me) the owner" ?

If yes, the file did not belong to you, hence you were not able to delete or modify it.

If you make you the owner, the problem should be solved for that file.

Well, this doesn't explain why the problem happens anyway.

Tried that, doesn't work 'cause that option is greyed out, essential it is saying i am already the "owner". Ha, an owner that can't save changes or delete that "everyone" with "custom" permissions. Some entitled owner...
As I said in the OP, Apple needs to smarten up TextEdit.
Thanks for suggesting Nisus, I actually used that app years ago, and it was great. I will just work around this issue, using Word which I usually have open anyway for business. Thanks anyway.

 

[Bruno09]

doesn't work 'cause that option is greyed out, essential it is saying i am already the "owner".

Did you open the lock ?

If yes, you already were the owner.

If no, open the lock, select your username, and see if "Make Me the owner" is clickable (not grayed).

(FYI I have been using TexEdit for years and never seen the problem you have).

 

[kolax]

In a terminal, ls -l on the file and post the output here.

 

[davidlv]

Did you open the lock ?

If yes, you already were the owner.

If no, open the lock, select your username, and see if "Make Me the owner" is clickable (not grayed).

(FYI I have been using TexEdit for years and never seen the problem you have).

Common guys, read my posts! I have said twice that I do not have the issue now, so how can I do what you are asking for?
I did open the lock, on the last file that had that issue, deleted days ago.
Can't remember exactly, but I did click on the gear and remember seeing the
"Make me the owner" greyed out, indicating I was already the owner.
If and when I get the issue again I will try running ls -l on the affected file. (Hope I never get the chance) as suggested by Kilamite.

(Edit with new info) I had a TextEdit file open, made no changes to it, just reading it as I used easyFind to search for a file, and suddenly got a popup with, in effect, "You do not have permissions to save this file".
The popup had a highlighted "Save anyway" button and I remember clicking on that - and getting the strange custom permissions later previously. This time I just cancelled out and quit TextEdit without saving. The file still had correct permissions! So obviously the issue is not with the file, but rather the system's automatic save function and somehow the system can't access the destination folder. Where does TextEdit save its automatically saved files?
I noticed Onyx has a delete automatically saved files option in the cleaning pane, so there must be a separate folder somewhere for that.
Ah, the mystery deepens .....

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Common guys, read my posts! I have said twice that I do not have the issue now, so how can I do what you are asking for?
I did open the lock, on the last file that had that issue, deleted days ago.
Can't remember exactly, but I did click on the gear and remember seeing the
"Make me the owner" greyed out, indicating I was already the owner.
If and when I get the issue again I will try running ls -l on the affected file. (Hope I never get the chance) as suggested by Kilamite.

(Edit with new info) I had a TextEdit file open, made no changes to it, just reading it as I used easyFind to search for a file, and suddenly got a popup with, in effect, "You do not have permissions to save this file".
The popup had a highlighted "Save anyway" button and I remember clicking on that - and getting the strange custom permissions later previously. This time I just cancelled out and quit TextEdit without saving. The file still had correct permissions! So obviously the issue is not with the file, but rather the system's automatic save function and somehow the system can't access the destination folder. Where does TextEdit save its automatically saved files?
I noticed Onyx has a delete automatically saved files option in the cleaning pane, so there must be a separate folder somewhere for that.
Ah, the mystery deepens .....

Found the folder. /.DocumentRevisions-V100 is where auto-saved documents and old versions of documents end up.

 

[kolax]

Are you signed into iCloud? I wonder if that's causing permission issues, as TextEdit by default wants you to save to the cloud.

 

[davidlv]

Are you signed into iCloud? I wonder if that's causing permission issues, as TextEdit by default wants you to save to the cloud.

Not signed in.

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Found the folder. /.DocumentRevisions-V100 is where auto-saved documents and old versions of documents end up.

That may be the source of this issue, as that folder has System, Wheel, and everyone - all with no access. I have no idea what the permissions for that folder should really be.
Care to tell me what they are on your system? A similar hidden folder at the root of the drive related to Spotlight has System with Read & Write access, so I changed the
permissions of system for .DocumentRevisions-V100 to Read & Write, as a test. We'll see if that works better.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Not signed in.

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That may be the source of this issue, as that folder has System, Wheel, and everyone - all with no access. I have no idea what the permissions for that folder should really be.
Care to tell me what they are on your system? A similar hidden folder at the root of the drive related to Spotlight has System with Read & Write access, so I changed the
permissions of system for .DocumentRevisions-V100 to Read & Write, as a test. We'll see if that works better.

Permissions:

d--x--x--x    8 root  wheel      272 Nov  8 19:06 .DocumentRevisions-V100

 

[chown33]

Permissions:

d--x--x--x    8 root  wheel      272 Nov  8 19:06 .DocumentRevisions-V100

FWIW, the root user doesn't need read or write permission on a file (or directory) in order to read or write to it. So the absence of rw permission for the owner is of no consequence. The permissions (mode) could be 000 and root would still be able to read, write, etc.

Example command-line demonstrating this:

sudo ls -la /.Doc*100

Read-permission is normally needed in order for 'ls' to list a directory (you can test this fact). Running as root, however, 'ls' is perfectly able to list the contents, despite lacking permissions (mode) that grants it.


The x permission on a directory relates to search. That is, can the user use the directory as part of a pathname.

Reference:

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/chmod.1.html
0100 For files, allow execution by owner. For directories, allow the owner to search in the
directory.
0040 Allow read by group members.
0020 Allow write by group members.
0010 For files, allow execution by group members. For directories, allow group members to
search in the directory.
0004 Allow read by others.
0002 Allow write by others.
0001 For files, allow execution by others. For directories allow others to search in the
directory.
​

Since all x bits are set, every user can search this directory, i.e. use it as a pathname component.