The bazillon:th monitor question

[Blacktip]

TL;DR
Is there a monitor that allows for simultaneous inputs and also can display ≈ 5K resolution whilst looking good on the eye?

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Ok, so here’s another one of those “what external monitor should I get-threads”. But, perhaps with a twist – or at least, I’d like to get some sort of up-to-date information of the … eh, ‘twist’.

Base info: I have just ordered a Mac mini M1 (thought Apple would release a new model this keynote, but they didn’t, so I ordered one).

I _also_ want to be able to connect a PC (yes, one of those). I haven’t yet ordered one, but I plan to get one to be able to render 3D imagery and whatnot (Keyshot 10), and … perhaps even play the occasional game when life allows. I just want to be able to use the best system for what they’re good at.

So – the monitor has to be able to connect not only by USB-C/Thunderbolt (the Mac mini) but also have a DisplayPort-port (or, HDMI if that standard is up to … eh, standards nowadays?).

Last week, I got myself a new Benq PD3220U (a 4K monitor that supposedly was a great choice to be able to 1.) connect multiple computers and switch between them and 2.) also be able to reproduce a somewhat decent color accuracy and whatnot. Today, I returned that monitor due to malfunction. Or rather – the screen had weird on/off:s when I connected it to my 16” MBP (2019) via USB-C. I performed all the fixes I could think of (Resetting SMC/PRAM, trying out different cables, testing all of the four ports on my MBP. Still flickering/monitor shutting on and off.

If the monitor had performed as it should, I still really can’t overcome the downgrade I saw when comparing the 4K screen to my 6 year old iMac. Yes, I did try every setting available, but I still SAW PIXELS EVERYWHERE! Mind you, I’m 50+ and have lost most of my hawkeye sight … but the jump from my iMac:s screen to the Benq monitor was really not pleasing at all. So, where does this leave me?

Conclusion 1: I would like to use my old iMac as a separate monitor (but that’s not going to happen)

Conclusion 2: perhaps get one of those LG Ultrafine 5K monitors? (Well, they’re out of stock everywhere, and the latest info say that they’re available in February 2022 …)

Conclusion 3: Even if I get hold of an LG Ultrafine 5K, that monitor still has just one port (so hooking up a secondary monitor is simply impossible)

Thought 4: Is there any sort of KVM switch that _works_ with that 5K resolution that the LG Ultrafine monitor sends out, and could I theoretically be able to hook up my forthcoming Mac mini + PC and be able to toggle between them? Highly unlikely. I scanned through many google posts, and still have to see anyone succeeding with that task (here’s a thread that at first seemed promising, but … no: https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-2-Po...,B07P75Q8FM,B076D76DRQ&srpt=ELECTRONIC_SWITCH)

So: is there no viable option for a Mac user that want a monitor close to the “true apple PPI” and also want to hook up that same monitor to another system (and be able to somewhat easy toggle between them)? I guess not, but I’d like to be proven wrong. And yes, I could consider a “4K:ish” solution as long as 1.) I can use two different input signals and 2.) the image quality is as close to “retina” as possible.

 

[Amethyst1]

So: is there no viable option for a Mac user that want a monitor close to the “true apple PPI” and also want to hook up that same monitor to another system (and be able to somewhat easy toggle between them)?

The “Apple PPI” is ≈220. A 27” 5K monitor provides that (as does the iMac) but they’ve all been pretty much discontinued. Iiyama had one with two DisplayPort inputs but there were quality issues with the panel. Here's a list of monitors with ≈220 PPI.

And yes, I could consider a “4K:ish” solution as long as 1.) I can use two different input signals and 2.) the image quality is as close to “retina” as possible.

Then you want the highest PPI you can get. I use ≈24” "4K" monitors (≈185 PPI) and find them OK. No visible pixels from my viewing distance. They have multiple inputs. I use an Asus MG24UQ and a Dell P2415Q but… they, too, have been discontinued. No USB-C or Thunderbolt connectivity but a simple USB-C to DisplayPort adapter/cable will take care of that. Here's a list of ≈24" "4K" monitors.

Thought 4: Is there any sort of KVM switch that _works_ with that 5K resolution that the LG Ultrafine monitor sends out, and could I theoretically be able to hook up my forthcoming Mac mini + PC and be able to toggle between them?

The issue is that the LG UltraFine 5K requires the video signal to be input via Thunderbolt 3 to attain 5K resolution. There are no Thunderbolt KVM switches that I'm aware of, and "rigging up" a normal DisplayPort KVM switch to work with the UltraFine is going to get complicated because the monitor actually requires two discrete DisplayPort streams, encapsulated in a single Thunderbolt 3 stream, for 5K (each DP stream drives one half of the monitor). So you'd theoretically need to convert Thunderbolt 3 to dual DisplayPort first (there are adapters to do that), feed those two streams into the KVM switch and finally "reassemble" them into a Thunderbolt 3 stream using a Thunderbolt 3 PCIe add-in card (such as this one - where are you going to install it though?) and, well, hope that it will work. Even if it does, you will (probably) lose the PCIe/USB functionality of the monitor, i.e. brightness control, camera, speakers, USB hub etc.

 

[Blacktip]

The “Apple PPI” is ≈220. A 27” 5K monitor provides that (as does the iMac) but they’ve all been pretty much discontinued. Iiyama had one with two DisplayPort inputs but there were quality issues with the panel. Here's a list of monitors with ≈220 PPI.


Then you want the highest PPI you can get. I use ≈24” "4K" monitors (≈185 PPI) and find them OK. No visible pixels from my viewing distance. They have multiple inputs. I use an Asus MG24UQ and a Dell P2415Q but… they, too, have been discontinued. No USB-C or Thunderbolt connectivity but a simple USB-C to DisplayPort adapter/cable will take care of that. Here's a list of ≈24" "4K" monitors.


The issue is that the LG UltraFine 5K requires the video signal to be input via Thunderbolt 3 to attain 5K resolution. There are no Thunderbolt KVM switches that I'm aware of, and "rigging up" a normal DisplayPort KVM switch to work with the UltraFine is going to get complicated because the monitor actually requires two discrete DisplayPort streams, encapsulated in a single Thunderbolt 3 stream, for 5K (each DP stream drives one half of the monitor). So you'd theoretically need to convert Thunderbolt 3 to dual DisplayPort first (there are adapters to do that), feed those two streams into the KVM switch and finally "reassemble" them into a Thunderbolt 3 stream using a Thunderbolt 3 PCIe add-in card (such as this one - where are you going to install it though?) and, well, hope that it will work. Even if it does, you will (probably) lose the PCIe/USB functionality of the monitor, i.e. brightness control, camera, speakers, USB hub etc.

Wow … thanks for that very insightful answer. Glad that someone actually seem to know what he/she is talking about. But yeah, basically I'm scr*wed to get a working solution. I just have so hard to grasp that no-one (no manufacturer, that is) sees the possibility for such a monitor?

But then again, when asking around at work and among designer friends (that really need 1:1 ratio pixel density & have high demands on colour accuracy and well; design-stuff) I get all sorts of replies. "no, I only use my (AAPL) screen" / "I don't really care" / "yeah, I guess I do see pixels now that you mention it, but lorem ipsum".

I scrubbed through your list of devices that has similar PPI as the iMac screen, and it seems like they all are discontinued. Apart from that LG 5K, but that's not getting back in stock for 6 months, and even when it does, I can't KVM-switch the signal (as you described earlier).

Oh well, guess I have to stick to my 3 year old Asus 4K-thingie that sort of works.

Thanks again for your answer.

 

[Amethyst1]

I scrubbed through your list of devices that has similar PPI as the iMac screen, and it seems like they all are discontinued.

If you’re feeling adventurous, you can build a DIY 5K monitor. Since you already have the panel (in your iMac), all you need is the driver board and power supply. And you’d need to gut the iMac (i.e. remove most of its internals) in order to convert it to a monitor.

 

[Blacktip]

Yeah, saw that post. Aaand … no. I just want things to work out of the box (and I'm willing to pay for it, too – within reason of course)

 

[Amethyst1]

Well FWIW, I got a second-hand Dell UP2715K (27” 5K) for $500 earlier this year and it’s working great on my (Intel) Mac. Apparently it’s not quite plug-and-play on M1 Macs though. And you need one of these Thunderbolt to dual DisplayPort adapters to hook it up. It does have two inputs (2× DP for 5K; 1× miniDP for "4K").

Disclaimer: I have no experience with M1 Macs.

 

[Amethyst1]

@Blacktip - I’m playing around with that Iiyama 5K monitor for some wacky experiments and can confirm the quality issues: several stuck green pixels.

 

[Blacktip]

Aha, well … we don't want that, do we? I hoped that dead pixels was a thing in the past. But what do I know.

 

[Blacktip]

By the way: I returned my earlier purchased BenQ PD3220U monitor to the shop where I bought it earlier this week. The reason for return = weird on/off blank screens and overall instability. Before I did that, I filed a customer errand where I provided all kinds of information of the cause, plus info of what I had done to cease the switching and erroneous behaviour. I then was asked to provide a video showing the errors, and so I recorded a video, and sent that to support.

Interestingly enough, the sales rep (based here in Scandinavia), told me that that he had 'lifted the issue to a higher ground', a.k.a some sort of tech support that works directly with BenQ, and I later got this reply:

"BenQ Technical engineer replied to us now. Looking at the video it is still not clear what customer is trying to show. So at this point a little unsure what can be the issue or where to start to troubleshoot more."

That answer was like … "I can't be bothered having audio on, and besides – it's too long to watch anyway so, let's post back a random text".

 

[Amethyst1]

It looks like they use(d) “grade B” panels. Well, it was the least expensive 5K monitor when released for a reason…

 

[Blacktip]

"grade B-panels"? Based on the on & off-switching? Well, the price I payed was/is the same as for the (discontinued, for now anyway) LG Ultrafine 5K monitor … (EDIT: Oh, my reply is still awaiting a moderator's approval – I thought you was referring to my latest post)

 

[Amethyst1]

I thought you was referring to my latest post)

Nope, to that Iiyama monitor. Sorry if that was unclear. So what monitor did you get?

 

[Blacktip]

Nope, to that Iiyama monitor. Sorry if that was unclear. So what monitor did you get?

I went back to using my 3 year old Acer H277HK. No signal switching or other issues. Works just fine, albeit with perhaps not the best colour accuracy.

 

[xraydoc]

There's definitely a serious void of >4K monitors available for mere mortals.

 

[Amethyst1]

There's definitely a serious void of >4K monitors available for mere mortals.

If you don't want to go the DIY route, your only choice for 5K is to buy something second-hand.

 

[Blacktip]

If you don't want to go the DIY route, your only choice for 5K is to buy something second-hand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't we (mac users) impaired compared to a PC-owner when it comes to 1.) getting a decent PPI-rendering on screen and 2.) connectivity? I guess the latter really is a matter of what primary port/protocol you would like to hook up your computer to the screen. And again, if I as a user would like to have both TB and DP … it's down to … well, second hand screens (like the "old" Acer I've got).

Also, found a (seemingly) very thorough post about mac's and monitors: https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors/

cheers,
Markus

 

[Amethyst1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't we (mac users) impaired compared to a PC-owner when it comes to 1.) getting a decent PPI-rendering on screen

In my opinion, definitely. It's either being happy with the amount of screen estate that the pixel-perfect mode provides (e.g. 1920×1080 on "4K") or putting up with the (slight) blurriness caused by scaling.

2.) connectivity?

Thunderbolt is cool IMO - however, I'm glad none of my monitors use it because standard DisplayPort/HDMI/USB-C connectivity allows hooking them up to any machine I might want to use them with.