The Case for a $1500 15" MacBook in 2022

[va1984]

I recently got a 16" 2021 MacBook Pro, paid for by work. I absolutely do not need the power this thing has, but, as an academic, I absolutely do need a large screen to work. My only hope in laptop for is 15-16"+, otherwise we're talking iMac.
Some points:

1) the previous design generation of 15-16" MacBook Pros were underwhelming to CPU/GPU-intensive professional, but they were great (keyboard aside) for those of us who wanted a slim, relatively lightweight MacOS notebook.

2) after years of heavy lobbying by the YouTubers and maybe some real-world pros too, Apple made what they wanted: a heavier, thicker laptop with convenient legacy ports and lots of power. They love it, and I'm glad they got what they wanted.

3) this has left an obvious gap in Apple's offering: even if money is no object, for example if like in my case, work is willing to pay for your computer, professionals who need a large screen but do not need a supercomputer may not be willing to put up with the extra weight and heft of the retro 2021 MacBook Pros.

What Apple can do to fill in the gap:

A 15" or 16" MacBook (or Air).
Priced somewhere between $1200 and $2500 (presumably $1700-1800? Maybe $1500?).
Same internals as the upcoming 2022 MacBook (Air), but with more battery to compensate for larger screen.

Easy peasy. This computer would never compete with the $2500 beast currently on my lap -- those who need real computing power will still go to the Pro machine. But lots of people who would otherwise get a 13" MacBook Air for $999 and an external monitor by Dell or LG will happily spend more for the larger laptop. Specs needn't be amazing -- lots of us are professionals who use office-type applications and do not give two ***** about high performance.

The case against: maybe Apple thinks that people will still keep upgrading to the 16" Pro even if they don't need all that power just for the larger screen. After all, people did so in the past. But in the past they got some marvelously slim and lightweight large-screen laptops. Not so today. The 15" Surface Laptop 4 weighs a fraction of the 16" MacBook Pro. It just doesn't run MacOs. Personally, I'll be sending back this huge beast, reluctantly, having loved its display and its keyboard.

Are you interested in a large screen consumer grade laptop from Apple?

 

[capathy21]

I would be. While I would love the display of the new pros, the thicker, heavier machines are a non starter for me. I will never understand wanting a thicker and heavier machine just to not have to plug an adapter in. No big deal to me, but it seems I am in the minority on that. Unfortunately I don't think they will ever make a 15/16 inch consumer machine. They want people to spend the extra money on a 16 inch pro.

 

[StoneJack]

Don't worry
Apple will find a way to take away current MBA and introduce something more expensive
Hopefully 2020 stays in some capacity

 

[Jamison7]

Same camp here as I have the 2015 Macbookpro 15". Needing to pay extra for a larger screen and overpowered 16" MBP should not be necessary as many consumer PCs have large screens. People on these forums continue to make the case that such an option would result in a net reduction in sales/revenue but I honestly don't think the loss of sales for 16" MBP would be greater than the gains made from 13" MBA users upgrading to a larger screen. Fight me.

 

[JPack]

The problem is such a product would be contradictory and have very few use cases.

Most people have large monitors at home and at the office. What kind of professionals need to work in the field with a large display but don't need the processing power? And at home/office they don't have an external monitor and rely solely on the 15-inch display?

If you're a mobile warrior, you will likely be displeased with the 15-inch footprint. A 15-inch MacBook Air would weigh 3.5 lbs minimum (likely closer to 4 lbs similar to Dell XPS 15).

 

[JPack]

But lots of people who would otherwise get a 13" MacBook Air for $999 and an external monitor by Dell or LG will happily spend more for the larger laptop. Specs needn't be amazing -- lots of us are professionals who use office-type applications and do not give two ***** about high performance.

I would disagree. If those people want a larger display, they would simply buy a larger monitor. If they have an external monitor, it means they spend quite a bit of time at the desk.

• $999 MacBook Air 13-inch

vs​

• $1,500 to $1,700 MacBook Air 15-inch

For $200 to $300, anyone can buy a 27-inch Dell QHD monitor. Why would they spend $500 to $700 on a larger MacBook Air?

 

[TechRunner]

I've typed the same reply in other threads like this one: Yes, I would definitely buy a 15" non-Pro laptop. Having said that, it would surprise me if Apple ever builds one, as this has been a gripe for some time now among Mac users, and we've yet to see this unicorn device materialize.

Make a fool out of me, Apple. Prove me wrong!

 

[diggy33]

Apple can do it. Will they do it? I dont think so.

 

[alphasports]

I think a 15" MBA would be amazing but I suspect Apple fears it might be creating a gray area that would result in cannibalizing MBP sales (at least once more peeps figure out the M1 MBA is far more power than they need).

 

[Admiral]

Priced somewhere between $1200 and $2500 (presumably $1700-1800? Maybe $1500?).
Same internals as the upcoming 2022 MacBook (Air), but with more battery to compensate for larger screen.

Keep dreaming. The real inflation rate for 2021 will end up as 15%. Next year we may see inflation greater than 30%. If you want a fifteen-hundred dollar Apple laptop, buy today.

 

[jerryk]

I am sure Apple has floated the idea of creating a larger-screened Air internally. But, my guess is they don't see a large enough customer demand to warrant the effort.

Steve Jobs famously said that one of the things the made Apple strong was the ability to say NO to many more ideas than they said YES. It let them focus their efforts and capital on making fewer products a lot better.

They already make a 16" at the same price as the old 15", $2499. I do not see them making a $1999 16" version that would impact sales of the 14" models, also priced at $1999.

 

[va1984]

Unfortunately I don't think they will ever make a 15/16 inch consumer machine. They want people to spend the extra money on a 16 inch pro.

I suspect Apple fears it might be creating a gray area that would result in cannibalizing MBP sales (at least once more peeps figure out the M1 MBA is far more power than they need).

This point often gets made. Even if it was true that Apple was thinking about upselling people to the Pro line, my point is exactly that, by making the latest generation of Pro laptops thicker and heavier, they have broken the unspoken agreement that allowed wealthy consumers who want a large laptop to upgrade to the Pro line. Price-conscious consumer were never able to, but others could, and did. I know a dozen MacBook Pro 15” and 16” users and none of them has ever opened Final Cut Pro in their lives. If you need to do serious editing, even if you’re, say, an academic in the social sciences or humanities, you need the screen space. Price is negotiable (also because you can buy used, refurb, or work can pay for it) but weight and heft are not.

I honestly don't think the loss of sales for 16" MBP would be greater than the gains made from 13" MBA users upgrading to a larger screen. Fight me.

Exactly. I think they would sell like crazy. And, knowing Apple, they could tack on a generous profit margin and they would still sell like crazy.

The problem is such a product would be contradictory and have very few use cases.

Most people have large monitors at home and at the office. What kind of professionals need to work in the field with a large display but don't need the processing power? And at home/office they don't have an external monitor and rely solely on the 15-inch display?

If you're a mobile warrior, you will likely be displeased with the 15-inch footprint. A 15-inch MacBook Air would weigh 3.5 lbs minimum (likely closer to 4 lbs similar to Dell XPS 15).

I would disagree. If those people want a larger display, they would simply buy a larger monitor. If they have an external monitor, it means they spend quite a bit of time at the desk.

• $999 MacBook Air 13-inch

vs​

• $1,500 to $1,700 MacBook Air 15-inch

For $200 to $300, anyone can buy a 27-inch Dell QHD monitor. Why would they spend $500 to $700 on a larger MacBook Air?

Setting aside the fact that MacOS external monitor integration leaves a lot to be desired, or that, as many have commented, there are very few passable Retina-compatible usb-c external displays on the market, the two are not incompatible. Once you’re over 35 and your eyes weaken if you read and type all day, you just need a big screen. I’m not thinking of 21y.o. in coffee shops.

I am sure Apple has floated the idea of creating a larger-screened Air internally. But, my guess is they don't see a large enough customer demand to warrant the effort.

Steve Jobs famously said that one of the things the made Apple strong was the ability to say NO to many more ideas than they said YES. It let them focus their efforts and capital on making fewer products a lot better.

They already make a 16" at the same price as the old 15", $2499. I do not see them making a $1999 16" version that would impact sales of the 14" models, also priced at $1999.

This is precisely the trick that I don’t think works anymore. There is a WAY larger customer demand for a 15” MacBook Air than there is for any of the Pro line. Apple knows this. This is why in the past they made “sort-of” Pro machines that were OK for the casual professional to use.

The argument that Apple wants ‘normal’ professional to upgrade to the Pro line for profit used to be true, but it died when Apple released the iMac Pro for $5k, then the new Mac Pro, then the Pro Display. They have started making Pro machines that are truly for Pros and priced as such. This is no longer stuff that ‘normal’ professionals can upgrade to — both because of cost and because the features are tailored very precisely to the Pro market. So there is now an obvious gap in the market.

 

[JPack]

Setting aside the fact that MacOS external monitor integration leaves a lot to be desired, or that, as many have commented, there are very few passable Retina-compatible usb-c external displays on the market, the two are not incompatible. Once you’re over 35 and your eyes weaken if you read and type all day, you just need a big screen. I’m not thinking of 21y.o. in coffee shops.

Think of it this way. How many 15-inch light ultrabooks do the top three PC manufacturers offer? Lenovo, HP, and Dell. That will give you a clue on actual demand. People buy chunky 15-inch notebooks as expensive desktop workstation replacements or cheap models for grandparents with poor eyesight.

The people reading and typing all day on a MacBook already have a 27- or 32-inch 4K external display. A 15-inch MacBook Air isn’t going to solve the lack of 5K external monitor options. Those are two separate issues.

Basically, the overlap in a Venn diagram of people who need a large display but not processing power on the go is very small.

 

[va1984]

Think of it this way. How many 15-inch light ultrabooks do the top three PC manufacturers offer? Lenovo, HP, and Dell. That will give you a clue on actual demand. People buy chunky 15-inch notebooks as expensive desktop workstation replacements or cheap models for grandparents with poor eyesight.

The people reading and typing all day on a MacBook already have a 27- or 32-inch 4K external display. A 15-inch MacBook Air isn’t going to solve the lack of 5K external monitor options. Those are two separate issues.

Basically, the overlap in a Venn diagram of people who need a large display but not processing power on the go is very small.

I think you got your logic inverted. Apple doesn't look at $500 Dell laptops and think they'd like some of that marketshare. The reason nobody has been buying in that particular segment is that nobody has yet made anything worth the money in that particular segment (see for example the early Microsoft Surface Laptop 15", which failed miserably at having even basic battery life). I've been hearing "Apple won't do this" arguments for 20 years. Won't switch to Intel, won't drop the cd drive, will never drop firewire, will not make a phone --absolutely Apple will NEVER make a phone, what idiot thinks anybody would buy an Apple phone?, won't make a watch, won't make a notch, etc etc etc etc. The truth is, when Apple is at a point where it can make a great product, it will. Then people take notice and buy it -- not the other way around.

For the last three weeks I've put aside my iMac 24" to experiment with life with the MBP 16". It works for me, screen-wise. The only problem of this machine is that it's a pound too heavy and way too powerful for my needs. I think the Apple Silicon transition will enable Apple to make a marvelous large laptop for consumers and I hope they do. The good news: you don't have to buy one if you don't want one!

 

[JPack]

I think you got your logic inverted. Apple doesn't look at $500 Dell laptops and think they'd like some of that marketshare. The reason nobody has been buying in that particular segment is that nobody has yet made anything worth the money in that particular segment (see for example the early Microsoft Surface Laptop 15", which failed miserably at having even basic battery life). I've been hearing "Apple won't do this" arguments for 20 years. Won't switch to Intel, won't drop the cd drive, will never drop firewire, will not make a phone --absolutely Apple will NEVER make a phone, what idiot thinks anybody would buy an Apple phone?, won't make a watch, won't make a notch, etc etc etc etc. The truth is, when Apple is at a point where it can make a great product, it will. Then people take notice and buy it -- not the other way around.

For the last three weeks I've put aside my iMac 24" to experiment with life with the MBP 16". It works for me, screen-wise. The only problem of this machine is that it's a pound too heavy and way too powerful for my needs. I think the Apple Silicon transition will enable Apple to make a marvelous large laptop for consumers and I hope they do. The good news: you don't have to buy one if you don't want one!

Yes, you're probably right. The top three PC manufacturers with over 60% of market share haven't figured this out. We know Apple executives discussed a 15-inch MacBook Air back in 2007 but turned it down. It all comes down to, what's the business case for such a product?

 

[bluespark]

I would absolutely kill for the computer you are describing. It's my dream machine and would be a day one purchase. I spend all of my computing time in business apps or on the web. I have a need for portability (so, thinner and lighter is better) but need a large screen for displaying multiple documents side by side. None of this is in any way taxing on a computer's processor, so the processing muscle that some view as "pro" is anything but for me.

 

[alphasports]

I'm a PC guy out of necessity...my company produces specialized broadcast graphics for network sports...you would think a textbook case for MBP-type hardware but totally false. The near-industrial grade hardware we use is ALL PC and that will never change: I'm talking basic Thunderbolt 3 connectivity to drive external frame-buffer cards that output SDI video direct to stadium control rooms and broadcast trucks. These are all run on higher-end i7 laptops using graphics software that is not only the live-sports-industry standard but firmly PC only. The PC software we run, by a major industry player, is so mature and efficient that it easily runs on mid-tier hardware; I use i7's with 16gb just as a precaution/buffer. Mac plays virtually no role in the live-sports world, so other than rendering giant youtube vids I don't really know what everyone does with these monster MBP's!!!

All this to say that despite my PC affliction I recently bought an M1 MBA base model 256/8gb and love it, I mean it's just such a great mobile computer, a true "laptop", much more useable than my Surfaces and other PCs. If they made a 15" I'd be all over it, but again it's for general use in my case, not my TV gigs, though it effortlessly runs all Adobe apps on 8gb of RAM. Even if they do port Bootcamp over to Apple silicon I can't risk running that sort of a hybrid thing in a mission-critical broadcast space.

So if Apple is a non-entity on the Gaming space and MBA's eat Adobe for breakfast, WTH does everyone need these MBP's for???!!!

 

[TechRunner]

I'm a PC guy out of necessity...my company produces specialized broadcast graphics for network sports...you would think a textbook case for MBP-type hardware but totally false. The near-industrial grade hardware we use is ALL PC and that will never change: I'm talking basic Thunderbolt 3 connectivity to drive external frame-buffer cards that output SDI video direct to stadium control rooms and broadcast trucks. These are all run on higher-end i7 laptops using graphics software that is not only the live-sports-industry standard but firmly PC only. The PC software we run, by a major industry player, is so mature and efficient that it easily runs on mid-tier hardware; I use i7's with 16gb just as a precaution/buffer. Mac plays virtually no role in the live-sports world, so other than rendering giant youtube vids I don't really know what everyone does with these monster MBP's!!!

All this to say that despite my PC affliction I recently bought an M1 MBA base model 256/8gb and love it, I mean it's just such a great mobile computer, a true "laptop", much more useable than my Surfaces and other PCs. If they made a 15" I'd be all over it, but again it's for general use in my case, not my TV gigs, though it effortlessly runs all Adobe apps on 8gb of RAM. Even if they do port Bootcamp over to Apple silicon I can't risk running that sort of a hybrid thing in a mission-critical broadcast space.

So if Apple is a non-entity on the Gaming space and MBA's eat Adobe for breakfast, WTH does everyone need these MBP's for???!!!

Your final sentence is the conclusion I came to. I wanted a 15" laptop, but had been saving to buy a 14" MBP, even though I would in no way use all that power and would be stuck with a slightly smaller screen. Finally, after much agonizing, I ordered myself a base spec Dell XPS 9510, and got the laptop that more aligned with my use case, and for significantly less money. I still have my M1 Mini system for the desktop, but after two weeks of ownership I can say that I have no regrets "settling" for the XPS 15 as my mobile machine.

Having said that, if Apple ever does build a 15" consumer laptop, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[avalon68]

I would be. While I would love the display of the new pros, the thicker, heavier machines are a non starter for me. I will never understand wanting a thicker and heavier machine just to not have to plug an adapter in. No big deal to me, but it seems I am in the minority on that. Unfortunately I don't think they will ever make a 15/16 inch consumer machine. They want people to spend the extra money on a 16 inch pro.

I think the pros have moved to a price bracket where most people just wont do that anymore. Having used Mac laptops for a very long time, I just purchased a windows machine. I needed a bigger screen. I have no need for the added power. I still dislike windows relative to MacOS, but its not as bad as I remember. If they made a 15/16inch macbook/air, I'd be back in a flash. The battery on my phone is starting to fade a bit now too, and for the first time ever I have started thinking about ecosystems and whether or not I should stay with ios, purely because I am now no longer all in with apple.

 

[avalon68]

The problem is such a product would be contradictory and have very few use cases.

Most people have large monitors at home and at the office. What kind of professionals need to work in the field with a large display but don't need the processing power? And at home/office they don't have an external monitor and rely solely on the 15-inch display?

If you're a mobile warrior, you will likely be displeased with the 15-inch footprint. A 15-inch MacBook Air would weigh 3.5 lbs minimum (likely closer to 4 lbs similar to Dell XPS 15).

Lots of people work between sites. I also like to sit on the couch sometimes or just move around the house. I would absolutely prefer a 15 inch screen. I don't particularly care if its a bit heavier - Im not that frail, and Im not going to be hiking 20 miles through the jungle with it.

 

[va1984]

Yes, you're probably right. The top three PC manufacturers with over 60% of market share haven't figured this out. We know Apple executives discussed a 15-inch MacBook Air back in 2007 but turned it down. It all comes down to, what's the business case for such a product?

I’m sorry but by your “logic” Apple should never have launched a watch (no meaningful market existed beforehand), an iPod (ditto) and many other products that went on to become near monopolies for Apple. By the same token, according to your “logic” it’s unclear why these mighty PC manufacturers have not managed to make a meaningful dent in high-end phone sales, for example.
For better or worse, the world of tech is splitting up in a way where a few companies (Apple in most segments) are taking up all the profits at the high end, and an endless series of bumbling nameless companies come and go, live a minute in the limelight, but eventually they just end up going for volume, cheap prices and low margin. The smartphone segment is a prime example. The PC space is a little more detailed, but still the point remains: what those “top three PC manufacturers” do is absolutely irrelevant to Apple. Apple creates its own markets, it has always done. You’re fond of quoting Steve Jobs so you certainly also know that he hardly thought in terms of Venn diagrams and business cases. He thought that you must make great products and people will eventually recognize that. Now with Apple Silicon Apple could release a great large consumer laptop, before, it couldn’t. Doesn’t mean they 100% will, but old computations from 2007 certainly no longer apply without mods.

 

[alphasports]

Finally, after much agonizing, I ordered myself a base spec Dell XPS 9510, and got the laptop that more aligned with my use case, and for significantly less money. I still have my M1 Mini system for the desktop, but after two weeks of ownership I can say that I have no regrets "settling" for the XPS 15 as my mobile machine.

Having said that, if Apple ever does build a 15" consumer laptop, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Zero shame in the 9510 it's an amazing laptop, I actually have one or order as a backup unit for our NHL projects since they are exactly what we need...good quality, small footprint, high power, Thunderbolt , etc.

 

[TechRunner]

Zero shame in the 9510 it's an amazing laptop, I actually have one or order as a backup unit for our NHL projects since they are exactly what we need...good quality, small footprint, high power, Thunderbolt , etc.

I'm really enjoying it so far. I still prefer MacOS, but Windows 11 has been fine. The biggest attractions were the easily upgradeable RAM and storage, which enabled me to buy the base model with an eye to the future.

 

[alphasports]

I'm really enjoying it so far. I still prefer MacOS, but Windows 11 has been fine. The biggest attractions were the easily upgradeable RAM and storage, which enabled me to buy the base model with an eye to the future.

I ordered an i7 16gb 512 version just to make it a bit more futureproof, but I'm still running XPS's from 10 years ago still on Win 7...I upgraded them to SSDs and they still scream. Good product!

 

[TechRunner]

I ordered an i7 16gb 512 version just to make it a bit more futureproof, but I'm still running XPS's from 10 years ago still on Win 7...I upgraded them to SSDs and they still scream. Good product!

I was hesitant to order one based on what I'd heard about Dell's QC issues, but mine rolled out of the box absolutely flawless, and has stayed that way these first two weeks. Enjoy your new XPS when it arrives!