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The Center Of The World

wdlove

wdlove

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
I watched a 3 hour special last evening on PBS. American Experience "Then Center of the World." It covered the conception, construction, and destruction of the World Trade Center. I found the history to be very interesting, that if it had not been for the driving force of men like Rockefeller & Tobin the project would have never survived. The mainstay of the project was the NY NJ Port Authority.

I had hear it described that people had jumped from the WTC, but had never actually seen it occurr. They showed footage of of many standing in windows. But the most shocking was actually seeing them falling, it wasn't just one but many. It was a horrifying and shocking scene. Brought tears to my eyes. If you have a chance to view this on your lcal PBS it is well worth you time!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/newyork/
 
I just saw "why the towers collapsed" on PBS tonight...probably a bit more technical, but still incredibly intense. They didn't show any graphic details, but the analytical description of the tragedy and the reports from people involved was enough to start to show the magnitude of the horror...
 
Originally posted by etoiles
I just saw "why the towers collapsed" on PBS tonight...
Click to expand...

i watched that, too. i thought they did a great job of explaining all the technical aspects of the construction, how it failed and how it affected the escape routes.

even the animations of the planes hitting the towers was unsettling, eh?
 
Re: The Center Of The World

Originally posted by wdlove
I watched a 3 hour special last evening on PBS. American Experience "Then Center of the World." It covered the conception, construction, and destruction of the World Trade Center. I found the history to be very interesting, that if it had not been for the driving force of men like Rockefeller & Tobin the project would have never survived. The mainstay of the project was the NY NJ Port Authority.

I had hear it described that people had jumped from the WTC, but had never actually seen it occurr. They showed footage of of many standing in windows. But the most shocking was actually seeing them falling, it wasn't just one but many. It was a horrifying and shocking scene. Brought tears to my eyes. If you have a chance to view this on your lcal PBS it is well worth you time!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/newyork/
Click to expand...

Sounds very interesting, I hope that one of the UK stations pick it up.

I've seen most of the documentaries that have been on our tv, and they've all been fascinating, especially the ones covering the original conception and construction of the twin towers.

The ones that discuss in more depth as to why they collapsed are even more interesting, although watching the chief building engineer in tears basically blaming himself for their collapse is heart breaking to watch.
 
I bet in about 60 years someone in Holywood will make a movie about 9/11, like people have done with the Titanic.
 
In the last issue of Esquire I received, there was a story about this one guy who was photographed jumping from the tower (forgot which one). It was on the front pages of newspapers all over, and there was even a movement to try & identify the man. Very compelling story I felt.
 
Re: The Center Of The World

Originally posted by wdlove
I had hear it described that people had jumped from the WTC, but had never actually seen it occurr. They showed footage of of many standing in windows. But the most shocking was actually seeing them falling, it wasn't just one but many. It was a horrifying and shocking scene. Brought tears to my eyes. If you have a chance to view this on your lcal PBS it is well worth you time!
Click to expand...

Watching the live coverage, the scale of the whole event just made everything seem very surreal, but it was the sight of people jumping from the windows that really brought the reality home.

Since then, I watched a documentary about the firefighters (with footage by someone who was accompanying them on the day), in which they were standing in the lobby, and hearing these incredibly loud bangs from outside. I don't think they had yet realised it was people who had jumped, hitting the pavement. Truly horrendous.

And I agree with hvfsl, someone will make a movie about this - and probably turn it into a teen romance - but it'll be a lot sooner than 60 years, methinks.

Mike.
 
How about the guys who did the engineering analysis of the buildings? They watched those tapes frame by frame for months. Ugh.

I have a book someone gave me a while ago with many of the worlds tallest skyscrapers in it, it has pictures of the towers being built, and was published before the attacks. Still makes me tear up looking at them.

The guy who was the lead structural engineer has an office that overlooks the WTC site. In interviews with him it is obvious that he feels a lot of guilt over the fact that his design failed so many people. Even though the towers stood for long enough for almost everyone below the impact zones to get out, he still feels like he failed those that died. And he has to look out his office window every day at the site of what was his greatest triumph and is now his biggest tragedy.
 
September 11th was the worst way imaginable to kick off my senior year of high school. I remember it was second period gym when a kid I knew poked his head in and said that the world trade center got hit by a plane. He had a rep as a jokester, so most people thought he was just messing around. Then when he said to go look at the tv in the computer lab, our disbelief turned into horror. During my third period class we had a radio, and heard that the first tower collapsed, and that is when most of us left school. I got home as fast as could, all the while looking east to skyline 20 miles away, seeing little more than a massive cloud of smoke obscuring the world trade center area, and as I reached my house, I looked again and saw the second tower collapsing in front of my eyes...I think that too many people have stories like mine, and many with stories much worse for hollywood to even consider turning the events of that day into a movie anytime soon.
 
-All

I think there is an interesting morsel here. What the terrorists wanted was us to be frightened - e.g. "terror"-ists. Even Bin Laden said "America is full of fear".

But this isn't the truth. This didn't come to pass.

I remember that everybody I know, during and after the events, fear - besides running from the collapses in understandable self-preservation, fear wasn't what was felt. It was sadness. Unbelievable sadness.

We aren't scared - never were. Though some politicians are trying to leverage certain things.
 
Originally posted by etoiles
I just saw "why the towers collapsed" on PBS tonight...probably a bit more technical, but still incredibly intense. They didn't show any graphic details, but the analytical description of the tragedy and the reports from people involved was enough to start to show the magnitude of the horror...
Click to expand...

I also saw, "Why The Towers Collapsed." It was aired on our local PBS several months ago. I found it to be very interesting. Agree that it was technical, but thought that they explained the problems very well!
 
I've been absolutely fascinated by the details of how this happened, and more importantly, how this will change building design as a result. (I'm an architecture student after all;) ) We have had many discussions in class about what the appropriate response should be.

Basically all of the building codes are there as a result of someone being killed. Sadly, tragedy seems to drive code adoption. So what will we learn from 9/11?

Buildings can be hardened against attack, but at what cost, and at what loss of design asthetic? Will we continue to build that tall? How can fires be fought at heights of over 100 stories? All of these and other questions are intimately tied up in what we learn from 9/11 at both the WTC site and the Pentagon. (Which did pretty well, considering a plane was deliberately crashed into it.)
 
Originally posted by hvfsl
I bet in about 60 years someone in Holywood will make a movie about 9/11, like people have done with the Titanic.
Click to expand...

You're probably right...

Although it is unfortunate to think about people capitalizing on such tragedies, it won't seem so tragic after 60 years...Unless you were alive at the time of the occurrence.

Thus far, many movies about historical events have come to represent the events themselves. Most people's image of Gandhi is really Ben Kingsley's portrayal, for example.

Now, we have much more of a visual record of events, so this might not be true in 60 years. But if it were, it would be interesting to compare the actual events to the movie (the latter being what we might believe will be that by which people will reference the event).

At the very least, it will be intriguing to compare the reality (or our impression of it) with the artists' rendering...Especially since the writers and director will probably not have experienced the event first hand...Since the video record is extensive, their rendering would probably be close, and since the emotions felt are nothing unique, they would probably be able to get that, too...

Well, then, I guess that comparison exercise won't be as interesting as it might have been between the reality and the dramatization of, say, the episode depicted in Titanic.

Of course, if the writers then are like the ones now, you can rest assured that a cheesy love story will ruin the entire movie, a la Titanic & Pearl Harbor.
 
Originally posted by hvfsl
I bet in about 60 years someone in Holywood will make a movie about 9/11, like people have done with the Titanic.
Click to expand...

I hope that it won't be that long before they make a movie. If it is 60 years I won't get to see the film! A love story, if it occurs would probably have to be about a fireman or policeman survivor!
 
Originally posted by patrick0brien
I think there is an interesting morsel here. What the terrorists wanted was us to be frightened - e.g. "terror"-ists. Even Bin Laden said "America is full of fear".

But this isn't the truth. This didn't come to pass.

I remember that everybody I know, during and after the events, fear - besides running from the collapses in understandable self-preservation, fear wasn't what was felt. It was sadness. Unbelievable sadness.

We aren't scared - never were.
Click to expand...

You're not serious, I hope. Many, many americans were, and are, terrified - of flying, of Arabs and muslims, of bioterrorism, of countless things. I'm not passing any judgement on whether this fear was appropriate or not... but to pretend that America wasn't and isn't scared... talk about your revisionist history.
 
Originally posted by QCassidy352
You're not serious, I hope. Many, many americans were, and are, terrified - of flying, of Arabs and muslims, of bioterrorism, of countless things. I'm not passing any judgement on whether this fear was appropriate or not... but to pretend that America wasn't and isn't scared... talk about your revisionist history.
Click to expand...

-QCassidy352

Perhaps you are right, that was a generalization. But everybody I've met since haven't actually been scared. Sure they've been wary but not scared. The difference? Wary is looking around a corner to avoid a potential collision, scared is avoiding the corner completely.

I've only encountered the former. And all persons I know have only encountered the former as well.

And four more degrees of separation, I'm sure Kevin Bacon feels the same.

And to talk to me of revisionist history, careful. That was an accusation.
 
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-QCassidy352

Perhaps you are right, that was a generalization. But everybody I've met since haven't actually been scared. Sure they've been wary but not scared. The difference? Wary is looking around a corner to avoid a potential collision, scared is avoiding the corner completely.
Click to expand...

Then how would you see the dramatic downturn in the number of US citizens travelling abroad? Isn't that 'avoiding the corner'?

I live in Ireland, and so am far, far less likely to experience a terrorist attack than someone in the US; and yet (as I live close to an airport) the sound of jets flying very low overhead still gives me the shudders. I think the terrorists have been quite effective in their objectives, not that that's at all praiseworthy.

Mike.
 
Originally posted by whooleytoo
Then how would you see the dramatic downturn in the number of US citizens travelling abroad? Isn't that 'avoiding the corner'?

I live in Ireland, and so am far, far less likely to experience a terrorist attack than someone in the US; and yet (as I live close to an airport) the sound of jets flying very low overhead still gives me the shudders. I think the terrorists have been quite effective in their objectives, not that that's at all praiseworthy.

Mike.
Click to expand...

-whooleytoo

It's possible.

However, I live in Chicago, home of the worlds busiest airport and airspace, and most of the travelers I talk to only do so for business, and grudgingly so, due to the idiocy of the TSA security checkpoints. Also, in the wake of 9/11/01 most folks around here have rediscovered family, and are sticking around them.

Going back to the airport security thing, as a former full-time traveler, there was a mathmatical rule of thumb. That was the comparison of travel times, before 9/11 it would take an hour to park and get to the gate, and assume 30minute minimum on the back end. Then add commute to the airport, say another hour, and commute from the other end, andother hour. Finally add the flight time itself, say 1.5 hours in this case. So we are dealing with a 4 hour travel time to fly 1.5 hours. Well 1.5 hours can get you far on a plane - especially an Ebraer or greater. the rule applies to locations where going through an airport would actually take longer. And example would be for me to go to Indianapolis.

That's a 2.5 hour travel time by car. It would make no sense to burn 4 hours with a more expensive flight on journey I can do in 2.5. Since 9/11 and the TSA checking shoes and nail clippers, that average travel time, minuse the actual flight time is doubled. So it would be more practical for me to drive to Cleveland, a 6 hour 390-mile drive, than fly. In actuality the travel-to-drive times to Cleveland is right about the same, but if I drove, it would be cheaper, and I'd be in my own car - beholden to my own schedule.

So what? Yeah, this is a lot of crap to build a point, but it's so damn inconvenient to travel by air right now, and I don't see a resurgence in domestic, let alone international travel until the security situation is streamlined,and due to the increased acceptance and cost savings of telecommuting, I don't think we'll ever recapture the travel rates of the mid-'90's again, remember, most flyers are business travelers.
 
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