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The life time of LCD screens

B

bannedagain

macrumors member
Original poster
Jan 20, 2004
89
0
Adelaide, South Australia
Everybody knows that the Good old CRT screen lasts forever and a day, however I am curious as to how long LCD screens last.

I was recently in an electronics store and a salesman told me that the globe LCD TV’s has a conservative burn time of around 10,000hours, the same for LCD projectors. After which time the globe can simply be replaced for a matter of a couple of hundred dollars. Conversely Plasma displays have a conservative lifetime of around 20,000hours at which time they are rendered useless and must be replaced.

However there appeared to be two types of LCD TV’s, ones very similar to computer monitors, and ones which appeared more like Rear projection TV’s. The comment about a 10,000hour burn time was in reference to the rear projection style LCD TV. I was unable to finish my discussion about the computer monitor type and am curious as to how long we can expect the current generation of LCD’s to last?

Discuss.
 
The screens will generally last a lot longer than the bulbs (aka backlights).

Luckily they tend to become less expensive over time and should not be too difficult nor expensive to replace, except for machines (or monitors) that have the LCD housings glued closed.
 
Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by bannedagain
Everybody knows that the Good old CRT screen lasts forever and a day, however I am curious as to how long LCD screens last.

I was recently in an electronics store and a salesman told me that the globe LCD TV’s has a conservative burn time of around 10,000hours, the same for LCD projectors. After which time the globe can simply be replaced for a matter of a couple of hundred dollars. Conversely Plasma displays have a conservative lifetime of around 20,000hours at which time they are rendered useless and must be replaced.

However there appeared to be two types of LCD TV’s, ones very similar to computer monitors, and ones which appeared more like Rear projection TV’s. The comment about a 10,000hour burn time was in reference to the rear projection style LCD TV. I was unable to finish my discussion about the computer monitor type and am curious as to how long we can expect the current generation of LCD’s to last?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the amount of hours, but an LCD TV WILL last longer than a PLASMA TV. On another note the LCD screen is not affected by still pictures and therefore is used for computers, while the plasma TV can be affected even by the little network logos during television programming as these are static images.

The rear projection LCD you were speaking of is probably the Sony rear projection LCD which combines an LCD screen with a lamp. The lamp is the part that will burn out and is usually inexpensive to replace.
 
Re: Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by oldschool
On another note the LCD screen is not affected by still pictures and therefore is used for computers,
Click to expand...

Any screen will 'burn' if you leave an image on it long enough, just some screen types are more prone to it than others.
 
Re: Re: Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by bannedagain
Any screen will 'burn' if you leave an image on it long enough, just some screen types are more prone to it than others.
Click to expand...

okay. so how long does is a typical PowerBook screen rated to last?
 
Re: Re: Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by bannedagain
Any screen will 'burn' if you leave an image on it long enough, just some screen types are more prone to it than others.
Click to expand...

screen burn in is not really a problem with CRT's anymore, you'd really have to leave it on the same image for probably a month to get any burn in. LCD's aren't really affected by it either, not easily anyway as is my undersatnding. plasma on the other hand, from what I understand, can be pretty susceptible to it and those network icons can burn in pretty readily and for computer use, they could be a real problem.
 
good to hear that modern screens won't get burn in.

and about plazma screens.... i thought that you could just get them re-gassed after they die. it seems a bit stupid that you would spend so much money only to eventually throw it out.:confused:
 
Apple covers themselves at least

Well, if a screen lasts 20,000 hours, and you have it on like all the time (18 hours a day average) it'll last just over 3 years, so Apple's got themselves out of trouble with AppleCare. Another question. When an LCD does kick it finally, is there any sign? Does it start to get dimmer or something? Or does it just *poof* stop working out of the blue?
 
Re: Apple covers themselves at least

Originally posted by stoid
Well, if a screen lasts 20,000 hours, and you have it on like all the time (18 hours a day average) it'll last just over 3 years, so Apple's got themselves out of trouble with AppleCare. Another question. When an LCD does kick it finally, is there any sign? Does it start to get dimmer or something? Or does it just *poof* stop working out of the blue?
Click to expand...

usually, it's the backlight that will go first. TFTs in front of the backlight is just controlling how much of that backlight gets transmitted. so if your backlight goes, your screen will be completely black. (much like if you turn down the brightness all the way down... but if you shine light through the semi-transparent white apple, you can still see the image on the screen...)

if peripheral line electronics go, either entire horizontal or vertical lines will go bad. i don't know which side is the gate and data sides, but either way, it will affect the entire line at once.

indiv. TFTs not working... well, that's just dead/stuck pixels.
 
Originally posted by cb911
good to hear that modern screens won't get burn in.

and about plazma screens.... i thought that you could just get them re-gassed after they die. it seems a bit stupid that you would spend so much money only to eventually throw it out.:confused:
Click to expand...

-cb911

Actually, this is why Plasma is about half the price of LCD - or rather LCD is twice the price.

The gasses that make up the pixels of a Gas Plasma display begin to go inert the moment the cells are sealed. And even though it is technically possible to refresh each of the cells with gas, there is nobody to do it - you do, in fact just throw away the set. If a salesman tells you that you can get a screen regassed, find another salesman, this fellow is either spreading "what he heard" or is making it up - the ability to regas a plasma is patently false. And plasmas are highly susceptible to burn-in as stated.

This is why I'm saving my pennies for an LCD. The others are correct that LCD's die via the backlight dimming, but the dimming curve is quite good. It only appreciable dims at the end of its lifetime. Ironicallly, the backlight of an LCD is the same basic technology as what is used in the individual cells of a Gas Plasma screen - phosphorescence. The LCD layer itself really doesn't have a measurable EOL.

CRT's are the stalwarts, but they can have burn-in (but it takes talent), this is why screen savers exists. Also, the CRT itself (Cathode Ray Tube) will eventually lose its vaccum. But that's after the electromagnets saturate.

CRT's most commonly exhibit death by the screen shrinking vertically - black bands, almost letterbox-like, appear at the top and bottom of the screen.

Nothing lasts forever, and CRT's still have the price/lifetime award, but LCD's are catching up.

And plasma will likely fade (pun, I know) into obscurity.
 
Re: Re: Apple covers themselves at least

Originally posted by jxyama
usually, it's the backlight that will go first. TFTs in front of the backlight is just controlling how much of that backlight gets transmitted. so if your backlight goes, your screen will be completely black. (much like if you turn down the brightness all the way down... but if you shine light through the semi-transparent white apple, you can still see the image on the screen...)

if peripheral line electronics go, either entire horizontal or vertical lines will go bad. i don't know which side is the gate and data sides, but either way, it will affect the entire line at once.

indiv. TFTs not working... well, that's just dead/stuck pixels.
Click to expand...

When the backlight goes, you can still see the image on the screen, it is just not very bright. Take any consumer device with an auto backlight; you will notice you can see the image it's just not very vibrant. The backlight is what makes it shine and that is why LCD's also cannot do a true black as well.
 
Re: Re: Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by bannedagain
Any screen will 'burn' if you leave an image on it long enough, just some screen types are more prone to it than others.
Click to expand...

Really? Mechanistically, is there a way for an LCD to burn? the only thing I can think of is that the backlight (which is pretty high temp in the blue-end-of-the-spectrum sense) might differentially discolor the plastic or glass more in the areas where the pixels are largely transparent (white), than in the places where they are almost black.

Anyway, I have definitely seen plasma screens that have logos burnt in. We have one at one of our plants that frequently rests on a logo in a bar shape in the center of the screen and the logo is burnt in.
 
Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by bannedagain
Everybody knows that the Good old CRT screen lasts forever and a day, ...
Click to expand...

Um, no. CRTs fail all the time. At home I've had to dispose of three of them from maybe 1990. We've had a lot more of them go bad at work.

As far as LCDs go, in the three years or so I've been around them I haven't seen any fail. A couple power supplies have went, but replacing those wasn't a big deal.

I'm sure the backlights will need to be replaced somewhere down the road, but all in all the LCDs seem more reliable than CRTs.
 
Re: Re: The life time of LCD screens

Originally posted by Westside guy
Um, no. CRTs fail all the time. At home I've had to dispose of three of them from maybe 1990. We've had a lot more of them go bad at work.

...
Click to expand...

FWIW I have had two TVs over about 10 years that went bad eventually in the sense of the guns or the scanner going bad. The first was an old TV from home that I used in my freshman dorm room, and after a while it wouldn't stay synced, so that it couldn't keep the image aligned to the screen.

The second I haven't replaced yet...my current TV has one of the guns going bad so all the colors are wrong. But it lasted through 2 years in an apartment in school where everyone's schedules were such that it would be on for 8 hours a day, and then about 8 more years of normal use....

OTOH, if the original author meant the glass screen itself is unlikely to go bad (in the sense of burn-in, etc), I'd say that's more accurate. It seems more common for some aspect of the electronics to go.
 
The life for a plasma of 20-30,000 hrs is not the point where the screen just dies, but where you may need to crank up the brightness some more. In any event for a TV, watching 6 hrs/d, that would equate to more than 10 years (25,000 hr life). Now from what I can guess, technology would have advanced quite a bit by then and throwing out the plasma may not be such a bad idea. What is the point of paying double for an LCD TV that lasts 20 years when after 8-10 years, you throw out the lot because TV systems advance (HDTV version xyz etc).

Regassing plasmas - load of bollocks!
 
technology would have advanced quite a bit by then and throwing out the plasma may not be such a bad idea. What is the point of paying double for an LCD TV that lasts 20 years when after 8-10 years, you throw out the lot because TV systems advance
Click to expand...

i see what you're getting at, but you're also saying that you'd rather (knowingly!) waste money in the long run than not have reason to buy a new set for a longer time because you're so cutting edge? can i have that swiss bank account number too?

anyone with sense isn't going to just throw out whatever hardware they have when something new comes out. figure this with the adoption rate of new technology - for instance regular tv sets vs. hd, which few have yet percentage-wise - and you'll find the old stuff has a bit of life left after all. don't worry about being left for the buzzards for quite a while; backward compatibility is all the rage.

also, look at how long it's taken tv to evolve this far. i doubt you'll see that many changes in the next decade to warrant replacing your otherwise perfectly functioning display, you know, the one you'll be congratulating yourself for spending the extra hundred or whatever because it is in fact still working.

as for myself, i'm holding out for lcds with longer life (my system is on 24/7, which brings 20k hrs down to 2.28 yrs) as well as more accurate color and greater pixel density. got a little wait ahead.
 
Quite the opposite:

In the UK, 42in plasmas are £2500 vs LCD that are more than double.

So if I buy a plasma now and replace it in 10 years time, I will pay less for the new LCD (or whatever) that will last me the next 10 years.

Alternatively I can pay double now for an LCD and keep it for 20 years.

-----------

Perhaps you missed the 1st point, the plasma won't die after 25k hrs - so may very well last for 20 years anyway.

Just a point of clarification.

BTW - I do have a 50" plasma and went through the cost options before making the decision. My previous TV (20" Sony died on me after 10 years anyway).

-----------

I think the life of the plasmas is an argument taken out of all proportion see http://www.plasmatvguide.com/faq.htm
 
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