The Offices

[CalBoy]

So I need to buy Office for my Mac (in sig). However, it doesn't look like Microsoft will have Office 08 ready by late August. So I try to wait out the time until 08 comes out? Will I have compatability issues with 08 (like not being able to open it in 04 or something)? Opinions would be greatly appreciated. Give me your Office for Mac experiences please

 

[thebrain74]

I have the current version of office for mac (if you call 2004 current) and it takes a second of two to load the first time (but its minor, even though its PPC , its not a dog like say, PS elements 4). When the program opens it runs fine. I think I have heard of the possiblity of a new format for 08 (users of Office for win can comment on this.....if there are any here..) and if thats the case you might have to use the same as command. I have heard that some people really like the new interface of Office win 07 while others find it strange and awkward. However that mac versions of office differ from their pc counterparts (sometimes very little sometimes a little more) so it remains to be seen if MS's new UI changes will come over to mac. Also I have heard a release by the end of this year, but I would suspect Oct at the earliest, prob more like Nov.

Also, IMO (as a student) word is the only necessary part of office. I like word alot (comments, notebook, built in voice memos,etc) but the rest of the suite....meh. I know that Excel is very necessary for some users, and entourage for business types. But my preferred combo is MS word and Apple keynote to replace powerpoint.

 

[CaptainCanuck]

If its at all possible, I'd hold off until Office 2008. As much as Office 2004 does run on Intel Macs, having it run through Rosetta makes things a bit of a pain. Office 2004 tends to be a lot more unreliable than it ever was on a PPC. Tie in the probability that Office 2008 files will have to be converted to the Office 2004 format, I wouldn't bother spending money twice and wait until Office 2008 comes out (whenever that'll be).

You could try something like NeoOffice for the time being.

Personally, I'm waiting to see what iWork '08 will bring; if a basic spreadsheet app is added, then I'll jump ship from Office at least at home.

 

[CalBoy]

You could try something like NeoOffice for the time being.

Personally, I'm waiting to see what iWork '08 will bring; if a basic spreadsheet app is added, then I'll jump ship from Office at least at home.

I have NeoOffice now, but I don't care for it as much as I like Office. I know, but I'm very used to Office. Plus, I need to know that if I have to send documents to professors and such, that it'll be the same. That's why iWork is not an option. It's also why I need an Office soon. Hopefully it'll be out before I think it'll be out.

 

[CalBoy]

I know that Excel is very necessary for some users, and entourage for business types. But my preferred combo is MS word and Apple keynote to replace powerpoint.

I've heard nothing but good things about Keynote, but I'm not sure if I'm going to put down money for both Office and iWork. I think one is enough.

Excel isn't really needed in my case, so NeoOffice is fine there, but Word is the deal breaker. I guess I'll just be waiting

 

[Father Jack]

Personally, I'm waiting to see what iWork '08 will bring; if a basic spreadsheet app is added, then I'll jump ship from Office at least at home.

Me too ...... As long as it's capable of reading Excel files.

 

[CaptainCanuck]

I have NeoOffice now, but I don't care for it as much as I like Office. I know, but I'm very used to Office. Plus, I need to know that if I have to send documents to professors and such, that it'll be the same. That's why iWork is not an option. It's also why I need an Office soon. Hopefully it'll be out before I think it'll be out.

I had a feeling that was the problem. I just wrapping school up (at last), so I'm looking more towards iWork rather than Office.

From what I can find, the official word from MS is for a second half 2007 release of Office 2008, which ranges between now and the end of the year. I'd try to hold off as long as possible, just for Office 2008 being a universal app.

If you do decide to get Office 2004, here's a link for a $25 rebate off of their student/teacher edition (which is what I have). That might lessen the blow.

 

[CalBoy]

If you do decide to get Office 2004, here's a link for a $25 rebate off of their student/teacher edition (which is what I have). That might lessen the blow.

Well, if nothing else, I'll just write in NeoOffice and then put it on my flashdrive and print from my school's computer lab. I'm sure that Office will be out far before October/November...it would kill sales that would have gone to all those who are like me.

 

[weckart]

Wait until 2008 comes out. There are some important updates if you use Excel if Office 2007 is anything to go by. Not least the removal of the 65000 rows limit, so that larger spreadsheets are possible, quite apart from the predicted speed boost due to Intel support.

There is a new file format, but you can always save down a version, and Microsoft have released the converter for .docx files already, for Office 2004 and v.X users, although still in beta format.

Another plus is that from Office 2007, the Student and Teacher edition becomes a Home and Student edition, so no edu IDs are required. Again, this is based on the Mac version following what has happened with the Win version.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Office 2008 for Mac licence, since the Student and Teacher edition 2004 was identical with the full price licence in terms of program content.

 

[CalBoy]

Wait until 2008 comes out. There are some important updates if you use Excel if Office 2007 is anything to go by. Not least the removal of the 65000 rows limit, so that larger spreadsheets are possible, quite apart from the predicted speed boost due to Intel support.

There is a new file format, but you can always save down a version, and Microsoft have released the converter for .docx files already, for Office 2004 and v.X users, although still in beta format.

Another plus is that from Office 2007, the Student and Teacher edition becomes a Home and Student edition, so no edu IDs are required. Again, this is based on the Mac version following what has happened with the Win version.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Office 2008 for Mac licence, since the Student and Teacher edition 2004 was identical with the full price licence in terms of program content.

I'm going to wait until 08 is out. I think I'll end up buying from my college bookstore, which will hopefully have a discount on it. Even so, it's going to be a lot for me.

 

[Father Jack]

Wait until 2008 comes out.

I don't think so !! .....
I have Office 2007 running via parallel Desktop and Win xP I think the new version looks like "Feck all" and I for one will not be going down that route. I would sooner stay with Office 2004 ..... if I really have too.

 

[CalBoy]

I don't think so !! .....
I have Office 2007 running via parallel Desktop and Win xP I think the new version looks like "Feck all" and I for one will not be going down that route. I would sooner stay with Office 2004 ..... if I really have too.

Well the question is whether 04 will be better than 08: I doubt that very much. Even though Office 07 looks horrible, it's going to be the new standard for a few years, so I might as well use it

 

[thebrain74]

These all very good tips and points.

a few more things....

A had to use neooffice for a while when I just got my first mac to get my ms files. I HATED IT. slow to load, ugly interface, not completely stable. IDK I used it when I had to, but after that I used appleworks (used to come on the computers, its ridiculous how nowadays new macs don't even come with a word processor) and converted when I had to send to other computers/send to teachers, etc.

About the note on not wanting to buy both iwork and Office. Valid point, however, with edu discount, iwork in only $50 (and maybe less at a uni--its $39 at mine--, I even have the older PPC version that runs fins on my MBP) so its not like your buying two $150 programs. And Pages isn't completely useless either, I wouldn't use it for everyday essays, but it shrines it more complicated (especially multimedia projects).

 

[After G]

I have NeoOffice now, but I don't care for it as much as I like Office. I know, but I'm very used to Office. Plus, I need to know that if I have to send documents to professors and such, that it'll be the same. That's why iWork is not an option. It's also why I need an Office soon. Hopefully it'll be out before I think it'll be out.

If you want your documents to remain the same, you could always make them PDFs before you send them out. It's not like the professor's going to edit your work.

Heck, I'd send plain text or RTF before I ever sent a Word document. I've seen Word docs crap out between two school lab computers running the same version of Word.

A had to use neooffice for a while when I just got my first mac to get my ms files. I HATED IT. slow to load, ugly interface, not completely stable. IDK I used it when I had to, but after that I used appleworks (used to come on the computers, its ridiculous how nowadays new macs don't even come with a word processor) and converted when I had to send to other computers/send to teachers, etc.

I use OpenOffice and I haven't had a problem with it. I actually like the X11 interface more than the Aqua one (though they still are working on it, so it might get better looking).

TextEdit does a nice job of making documents too and converting decently to Word when necessary. I used it before OpenOffice was around.

I don't want other people to think they have to keep using Word, so I actively try not to send any Word documents out. I've even had people come back to me and say, "I can't open this, please resend in Word." when it's an RTF file. They probably took a look at the extension and panicked when it wasn't ".doc".

 

[CalBoy]

TextEdit does a nice job of making documents too and converting decently to Word when necessary. I used it before OpenOffice was around.

I don't want other people to think they have to keep using Word, so I actively try not to send any Word documents out. I've even had people come back to me and say, "I can't open this, please resend in Word." when it's an RTF file. They probably took a look at the extension and panicked when it wasn't ".doc".

Text edit is a good basic word processor, but it's just not usable for long documents (like a 50 page thesis). iWork really isn't too bad I guess, but I just don't want too many programs that can all do the same thing. I guess I want it simple.

I don't like Microsoft's monopoly on word processors either, but Word is a good standard to have around. I just wish that Microsoft would use the Open Office standard...that way we wouldn't have to worry about formats accross different applications.

 

[bonafide]

With all of this discussion on word processors I thought I would bring a couple questions to the table:

1) Can Google Docs save/open Word documents?

2) Can Openoffice save/open Word documents?

3) Obviously Office:mac can open them but why would you want too I understand there is like 500 script viruses created to target Office:mac...True/Not True?

If Google Docs/OpenOffice can save Word documents.. why would you buy Office:mac?

 

[mkrishnan]

1) Can Google Docs save/open Word documents?

2) Can Openoffice save/open Word documents?

3) Obviously Office:mac can open them but why would you want too I understand there is like 500 script viruses created to target Office:mac...True/Not True?

If Google Docs/OpenOffice can save Word documents.. why would you buy Office:mac?

I'll give you the benefit of assuming this isn't just blatant trolling....

1) True, but not with adequate formatting compatibility with Office on other computers, and not in a way that is clearly compliant with HIPAA at this time.

2) True, but not with adequate formatting compatibility with Office on other computers.

3) True (opening Word files), with adequate formatting compatibility with Office on other computers, and to be quite frank, the last time I personally encountered a macro virus was in 1997 (I think it was on a Windows PC, it might have been on a PPC 603e PowerMac).

So, as you can infer, as for why I would get Office when (1) and (2) are Trues, it would be because I use Office documents in a collaborative environment and want good formatting compatibility purely for selfish reasons of wanting less re-work.

Not to mention, for Google docs, which didn't exist when I last bought office anyway, it's not clear at present that it addresses HIPAA concerns well enough for me to use it. Neo, I like generally, although MS Office 2004 is decidedly faster on my PPCs than Neo is. I do understand Intel users getting Neo because they want an Intel binary.

 

[krunk]

Wait if you can. For example, office 2007 documents cannot be opened by earlier office versions. This is normally true from version to version.


Excel is excellent, there simply isn't a competitor out there that matches it for ease of use and simplicity.

I'm not fan of Word though. Most word processors I run in to, including the OO variants or abiword, are far to focused on format micro management. Microsoft word seems to be the worst of the bunch though.

I would encourage you look into a hands off word processor like LyX. It creates professional looking documents with zero time spent on formating. And by zero, I mean zero. As in none. Not one margin set, no need to create a table of contents, nada. Just focus on content and structure (part I, part II, section 1, section 2).

I've introduced many a student to LyX and about every one to a person was amazed that people still insist on fighting applications like Word and OO to get their docs looking right.

As a previous poster mentioned, unless your dealing with someone who will be editing your document you should get out of the habit of sending people .doc's. They're not private (just open it in a text editor and the entire history of the file is open for all to see), they give unfettered access to your private works, and they are not viewable by everyone (especially if you define viewable as "appears as I intended it to"). PDF's are the best format for about anything except collaborative works.

long documents (like a 50 page thesis

It should be mentioned that LyX and bibliography software that works well with it (or any LaTeX variant) were made with these sorts of projects in mind. Scientific, literary, and technical writing where content and clear, consistent presentation is what counts.

 

[bonafide]

I'll give you the benefit of assuming this isn't just blatant trolling....

It wasn't trolling..

Thanks for answering my questions..

 

[mkrishnan]

It wasn't trolling..

Thanks for answering my questions..

Sure, and sorry. I do think Neo/OOo is actually coming along excellently. I did, after I posted that, open up some documents to compare, and they weren't perfect, but they were closer than I expected.

If I were establishing a new work environment (like, say, going into private practice) and dictating the setup, I think I actually would seriously consider putting everyone on Neo and not using MS Office.

 

[bonafide]

I've been taking university classes through correspondence. So I need a program that will open/save .docs (Word files) because that is what the professors/school uses.

So I guess I'm stuck with Office:mac even though I don't want anything to do with MS/PCs anymore.

 

[mkrishnan]

I've been taking university classes through correspondence. So I need a program that will open/save .docs (Word files) because that is what the professors/school uses.

If you need to open and read them, and you need to send files, but you don't need them to be perfectly formatted identically, Neo might be just fine for you. What I mean is that, if I'm working on a patient report or some other note with two or three other people, I need it so that the carriage returns and spacing and page breaks are all the same, and table cell widths, and so on. I haven't found that satisfactory with Neo, so that we can shoot the file back and forth and whoever prints it, it will look the same. It's just an efficiency issue.

If you don't have those sort of needs, Neo might do you just fine. I'm not saying no one should use Neo; I'm just saying that it isn't quite true that everyone can / should just walk away from Office, or that Office isn't advantageous to some of us. It is.

 

[jackiecanev2]

I'm in the same boat that you are; office2004 is ok, but its nothing fantastic. Feature for feature, NeoOffice has it beat, as far as I'm concerned. I use it for school (docs, spreadsheets, calculations, etc), and I also have iWork for little things in between, like presentations and whatnot. I'm personally holding off for office 2008, just to see how it is, but don't be fooled; just because neoOffice is open source, don't discount it. It's is a full-featured office suite that is just as capable as MS Office.

 

[CalBoy]

I would encourage you look into a hands off word processor like LyX. It creates professional looking documents with zero time spent on formating. And by zero, I mean zero. As in none. Not one margin set, no need to create a table of contents, nada. Just focus on content and structure (part I, part II, section 1, section 2).

Thanks for that. I'm going to try it out. I might PM you if I have any questions.

 

[krunk]

I've been taking university classes through correspondence. So I need a program that will open/save .docs (Word files) because that is what the professors/school uses.

So I guess I'm stuck with Office:mac even though I don't want anything to do with MS/PCs anymore.

TextEdit opens and reads .doc's quite well I believe. It's what I read them with I think. iWork does too.

Since every mac editor can print to pdf natively so anyone in the world can read your documents, the only reason to *have* to use MS Office is in a collaborative environment where people need to open and *edit your docs* frequently or if your courses need a first class spreadsheet. (most spread sheet stuff can be done with free programs like Gnumeric...but if your doing a lot of linear regressions, etc. excel all the way)