The United Police State of America

[macidiot]

Now I'm personally am not that political. Largely, I view the government as a bunch of gridlocked morons. In fact, I've mostly counted on said gridlock to keep the currently elected morons from doing anything truly stupid. But one thing I value, is my personal freedom(what a surprise, being an American and all). But ever since 9/11 there's been an increasing infringement of personal liberties in the name of "security." It was disturbing before, but now its really getting scary...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050511-4895.html

Nice to know that the "bastion of freedom" in the world is now turning into a police state. Viva President Klink! Papers please!

 

[emw]

Now I'm personally am not that political.

No, but this post is and probably belongs in that forum.

That being said, I'm not a huge fan of the ever-increasing ability of everyone from my loan officer to my barber being able to look up personal information about me. Sites like ZabaSearch make it even easier for everyday people to find out just about anything about anybody.

How long until the government finds that licensing bits of this information can help reduce the national debt?

 

[jamdr]

ZabaSearch is just like looking in a phone book. If you don't want your address out there, don't list it. As far as the government keeping personal information, oh well. You are a citizen here after all. Does it really keep you up at night that the government knows who you are, where you are, etc? I don't really see how this hurts anyone, and it may help fight crime.

 

[Lyle]

As far as the government keeping personal information, oh well. You are a citizen here after all. Does it really keep you up at night that the government knows who you are, where you are, etc? I don't really see how this hurts anyone, and it may help fight crime.

I'm still not sure where I stand on this issue, but I think my personal concerns aren't so much about how legitimate government agencies will use this information (e.g. for law enforcement), but how good of a job they'll do of protecting that information from identity thieves and the like.

The ars technica article that macidiot linked to is little more than a rant, but on the plus side it in turn links to some more illuminating discussion from security expert Bruce Schneier on the Real ID act. Unlike a lot of the commentary I've seen on this topic, Mr. Schneier sticks to the technical issues without veering off into politics.

P.S. I'm taking your post at face value and assuming that you weren't being sarcastic. Even if you were, the Schneier article is a must-read.

 

[macidiot]

No, but this post is and probably belongs in that forum.

I thought about posting to that forum, but considered this as a current event, so figured this was an appropriate forum.

 

[macidiot]

I'm still not sure where I stand on this issue, but I think my personal concerns aren't so much about how legitimate government agencies will use this information (e.g. for law enforcement), but how good of a job they'll do of protecting that information from identity thieves and the like.

The ars technica article that macidiot linked to is little more than a rant, but on the plus side it in turn links to some more illuminating discussion from security expert Bruce Schneier on the Real ID act. Unlike a lot of the commentary I've seen on this topic, Mr. Schneier sticks to the technical issues without veering off into politics.

P.S. I'm taking your post at face value and assuming that you weren't being sarcastic. Even if you were, the Schneier article is a must-read.

Agreed, the Bruce Schneier commentary is far more illuminating. But since it was linked to in the Ars article, along with a few other links, I decided to use ars. Besides, that's the article I read first, so he should be credited.

 

[Lyle]

I thought about posting to that forum, but considered this as a current event, so figured this was an appropriate forum.

The secret sauce that turns a "current events" post into a "political forum" post is usually the commentary that accompanies the post.

 

[Lyle]

Agreed, the Bruce Schneier commentary is far more illuminating. But since it was linked to in the Ars article, along with a few other links, I decided to use ars. Besides, that's the article I read first, so he should be credited.

Oh, no problem there. And I obviously agree that it's an important topic to bring up, regardless of which MR forum this thread eventually ends up in...

 

[Apple Hobo]

The American people don't exactly help themselves with these matters. The government will always to crazy stuff, but it's the sheep that let them get away with it by saying, "well, if it makes us safer, I'm all for it..." How many times have we seen this when more completely useless, illogical airport "security" restrictions are passed?

news reporter: Ma'am, what do you think of the new security restrictions that require a full strip search of passengers before they board the plane?

lady: If it keeps us safer, I'm all for it! :bleat: :bleat: :bleat:

 

[macidiot]

As far as the government keeping personal information, oh well. You are a citizen here after all. Does it really keep you up at night that the government knows who you are, where you are, etc? I don't really see how this hurts anyone, and it may help fight crime.

It hasn't kept me up at night in the past. Then again, there wasn't the ability of some private company like Checkpoint or Equifax to track my life in this much detail (I'm not all that happy with those companies either). This national id goes a lot farther than you think.

I'm all for reducing terrorist risk and reducing crime. But punishing law-abiding citizens is the wrong way to do it. Put another way, you'd probably be a lot safer if you lived in an underground concrete bunker in Wyoming or something, but do you want to? Think of it another way, there wasn't all that much crime in the former Soviet Union... doesn't mean I want to live like that.

 

[emw]

ZabaSearch is just like looking in a phone book. If you don't want your address out there, don't list it.

ZabaSearch even shows unlisted numbers.

As far as the government keeping personal information, oh well. You are a citizen here after all. Does it really keep you up at night that the government knows who you are, where you are, etc? I don't really see how this hurts anyone, and it may help fight crime.

Sure, until you read articles like this one. I'm not concerned so much about the government having it as much as I am with somebody else getting it.

 

[Crikey]

( . . . )

How long until the government finds that licensing bits of this information can help reduce the national debt?

It will never happen, because Congress would have to actually apply the income gained toward the national debt rather than spending it on current programs. This they have probably never done with any new income source. They might use a national debt argument to justify the program, but by the time the program generated any income they would have devised a means for redirecting it.


Crikey

 

[leekohler]

ZabaSearch is just like looking in a phone book. If you don't want your address out there, don't list it. As far as the government keeping personal information, oh well. You are a citizen here after all. Does it really keep you up at night that the government knows who you are, where you are, etc? I don't really see how this hurts anyone, and it may help fight crime.

Wow. How completely naive. Want to go back and live in Nazi Germany?

 

[emw]

It will never happen, because Congress would have to actually apply the income gained toward the national debt rather than spending it on current programs. This they have probably never done with any new income source. They might use a national debt argument to justify the program, but by the time the program generated any income they would have devised a means for redirecting it.


Crikey

Hmmm. Good point. Why pay off debt, when you can spend more on things like, say, war?

 

[pinto32]

....national ID = BAD....

..if I say anything more, I will single-handidly cause this to be moved to the political thread....