Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Thinking of a mid-range specced Mac Studio... Is it overkill, or not enough?

J

jrm27

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 3, 2008
579
31
Hello all,

I'm a longtime Apple user, and my refurb MBP from 2015 is getting loooooong in the tooth. I'd been waiting for an upgraded iMac, but the Mac Studio was a pleasant surprise that I think would be a great solution.

I'm a Graphic Designer, Illustrator, Photographer, Videographer, and Motion Graphics guy that keeps my gear for a long time. I live in the Adobe Creative Suite. I'd hope to get a solution that works for at least 6-7 years if possible. Since I don't have an unlimited budget, I've been thinking that a mid-range studio would suffice. Something like this:
  • Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
  • 64GB unified memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
My question is twofold:
1. Is it worthwhile to upgrade the GPU and Memory on this machine? Or, are gains minimal for the extra costs? Basically, am I overpowering the purchase just because I like to go above base-model?
2. Conversely, am I shooting myself in the foot for not springing for the base Ultra model?

I'm sure there are tons of these kinds of questions asked everywhere, so if there is another thread I should be in I can certainly move over there. Thanks for any advice you might be able to give!
 
I doubt anyone can give you solid answers that absolutely apply to your situation. Relative to a 2015 MBpro, your needs will probably be met with ANY Studio model. That's a 7-year leap of technology.

Do you tax that MBpro now doing the things you describe? If not, you might want to hop in the refurb store and buy a base Studio for a few hundred less than "starting at" (new). That will probably be plenty and most easily resold in a few years if your use needs rise up to tax the hardware.

If you DO tax the MBpro, things become more complicated. Obviously, the more power you get for the things you do, the faster you get some of them done. So someone could make the case to MAX out everything while someone else will claim base unit is all you could possibly need vs. a 2015 laptop. A lot of people around here will spin that these are the most powerful computers in the world and nothing is close... but reality is that these may be the most powerful Macs (in many ways) right now.

I went Ultra 48-core on a similar technology leap and I'm very impressed with the power when doing graphics and video work with it. I do not feel anything I've done has really taxed it except perhaps a whole bunch of Blu Ray conversions in Handbrake, converting 4 at a time into HEVC files while also doing a bunch of other tasks. That was shockingly fast compared to trying to do the same with Intel Macs... so fast I was spot checking the early renders thinking that they couldn't have possibly converted as fast as they did.

There are many media producer videos working with Studio on YouTube. Watch some that aren't obvious koolaid drinkers and you'll get more objective insights into what these can do in your areas of need. The general message seems to be "incredibly powerful Macs" but NOT actually "most powerful computers" (contrary to so much that is slung around here). Again, I'm pretty content with my Studio but just don't buy the hype when objective comparisons prove otherwise. It's definitely the best Mac I've ever owned and certainly feels very powerful.

Try to get into an Apple store. It's likely you can get time on some Studios using the software you like to use. Take that time and try to get it to do some stuff that typically slows you down on that MBpro. You'll probably be very impressed. Maybe take in a complex project at a time of day when they are less busy and then do some of the intensive steps of the project using one in store? That should illustrate power far better than Apple people opinions.

Option 2: best guess at your need, buy and test it like crazy within Apple's return window. You can always swap for more power if your guess comes up short of your wants/needs.

As to 6-7 year longevity, I fear that macOS updates will obsolete these even faster than traditional Macs... that these are being set up to magically become "long in tooth" in only a few years to try to get us turning over our computers like we turn over our phones. We'll see about that- perhaps I'm being too pessimistic? I also hope the >$6K I shelled out for Ultra means I have a Mac that can roar for 6+ years too. I gambled that it will have such legs but only time will tell.

Based on all I've seen and read, if I could go back to launch day and order again, I'd probably choose MAX over ULTRA and "mid-spec" it as you say... though I'd probably still pay way too much for a big internal storage upgrade from Apple. That IS fast storage and there seems to be a speed benefit that scales with size. I bring my projects internal to that fast storage to work on them and then store them to slower connected storage when done. While Apple pricing is pretty much (fool and his money) robbery (IMO) on SSD, I'd give some serious thought to also being a fool vs. the thinking about 1TB.

One more thing: for the kinds of stuff you do, perhaps the bigger impact "feel" is going to be the screen choice. Doing that kind of stuff on a laptop screen vs. a big desktop screen or perhaps even ultra-wide should feel like a huge leap. I went 5K2K ultra-wide and the extra RE vs. a former 27" iMac screen is night and day. Be sure to carefully consider and select your screen too. There are many good choices for productive work... not limited to only two choices with a favorite logo on them.

And one more, one more thing: since you are replacing a laptop here, this thing is not very big... like a cube-shaped bowling (not) ball. There are already carrying case makers for those who might want to transport this like a portable. If you think you will miss some Mac mobility, that might be an option to explore too. Screen at work, screen at home and carry the computing guts back & forth.
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much. This is an absolutely stellar response!

Yes, I'm sure that any upgrade at all will be MILES ahead of where I am at now. It sounds like we both have a similar project management approach. I keep my projects on internal storage when in the edit, and once those are done, they move to a 16TB raid. Then if I need it back for edits later, I pull it back to the internal drive. The main exception is my Lightroom library which lives on the raid at all times. Saying that, I'd likely choose 1TB of internal storage and call that "good enough".

Re: Screen, yes, this is another consideration for sure. I currently have an external 27-inch 4k Dell monitor that I use with my MBP. I really should replace it, but for now, it will likely make the leap to be used in the new setup. The screen solution deserves more research.

As far as portability is concerned... I'm not too worried. I remember traveling with my Mac Mini back in the day, and I could do something like that again. But, in truth, I'll still have my MBP since there's such little resale/trade-in value left in it, so when I'm in need of a mobile computing solution I have something that will still limp along for a while.

Thanks for the in-depth thoughts. I really apprecaite them.
 
It's a business cost which you can write off on your taxes. Seems like a good spec for your needs, especially since you will use it for a long time. Companies even make padded cases you can use when traveling; I remember lugging my SE30 in a shoulder bag to and from college on weekends.
 
Yep, it's a business cost, but a self-employed business cost ;) The tax writeoff is great, but trying to keep in that sweet spot of cost/benefit as things slow down a bit! Thanks for the insight on the specs too. I appreciate it!
 
jrm27 said:
Yep, it's a business cost, but a self-employed business cost ;) The tax writeoff is great, but trying to keep in that sweet spot of cost/benefit as things slow down a bit! Thanks for the insight on the specs too. I appreciate it!
Click to expand...
After considering the specs, you could probably go 64GB, 10/24, 512GB, and a fast external drive since it's a desktop. Get that one and throw all your existing projects at it during the 15 day return period.
 
Last edited:
HobeSoundDarryl said:
...As to 6-7 year longevity, I fear that macOS updates will obsolete these even faster than traditional Macs... that these are being set up to magically become "long in tooth" in only a few years to try to get us turning over our computers like we turn over our phones. We'll see about that- perhaps I'm being too pessimistic? I also hope the >$6K I shelled out for Ultra means I have a Mac that can roar for 6+ years too. I gambled that it will have such legs but only time will tell.
Click to expand...
People have figured out how to run newer unsupported OSes on older computers so you should be fine past Apple's window.
 
jrm27 said:
Thanks so much. This is an absolutely stellar response!

Yes, I'm sure that any upgrade at all will be MILES ahead of where I am at now. It sounds like we both have a similar project management approach. I keep my projects on internal storage when in the edit, and once those are done, they move to a 16TB raid. Then if I need it back for edits later, I pull it back to the internal drive. The main exception is my Lightroom library which lives on the raid at all times. Saying that, I'd likely choose 1TB of internal storage and call that "good enough".

Re: Screen, yes, this is another consideration for sure. I currently have an external 27-inch 4k Dell monitor that I use with my MBP. I really should replace it, but for now, it will likely make the leap to be used in the new setup. The screen solution deserves more research.

As far as portability is concerned... I'm not too worried. I remember traveling with my Mac Mini back in the day, and I could do something like that again. But, in truth, I'll still have my MBP since there's such little resale/trade-in value left in it, so when I'm in need of a mobile computing solution I have something that will still limp along for a while.

Thanks for the in-depth thoughts. I really apprecaite them.
Click to expand...

One more bit of input that may be helpful to you: if that 16TB RAID is SSD, you MAY be OK. If it is HDD-based, there is a broad mix of experience in terms of HDD RAIDS remaining consistently attached. For example, I have a HDD RAID that will NOT remain attached to this Studio Ultra for more than 3 hours max. The same RAID through the same cable has no problem at all remaining attached to my Intel Macs running earlier versions of macOS.

There is a LOT of this discussed in many threads both here and on other sites, including Apple's own support forums. I tried every possible user solution before finally giving up (for now) and going with a single big drive in a new box. With each Monterey .X upgrade, I've checked again and no change. I've tried all of the ports front and back and even trying it through powered and unpowered hubs attached to Studio. No difference. Basically the U in USB is not fully applying with Monterey (and possibly Big Sur too based on other people's comments).

My own plan was to take full advantage of a fast HDD RAID I had been using with no issue on Intel iMac before this purchase. It was my video editing "scratch" drive for bigger video projects. However, that quickly became impossible as that RAID would disconnect even while transferring files to or from it. Ultimately, it could not be trusted to work as expected with this "latest/greatest" Mac.

In communications with others, this problem seems much less with SSD RAIDS but some report it with those too. Others claim that some HDD RAID boxes will remain connected. So basically, it might work or it might not. If you go for it and yours doesn't, be prepared to buy something else until Apple gets around to resolving this bug(s). If as some imply, it has been a problem since Big Sur, don't assume it gets addressed soon.

There's also the speed (of ports) issue covered here.

Again, I'm pretty happy with my Studio but those issues really bug me- especially needing to buy a new external enclosure because the existing RAID wouldn't stay connected. I'm mostly confident this is a macOS bug(s)- not Studio hardware (though that speed test issue offers some concern about that)- that will probably get addressed eventually but "when?" is always the question in such things. Ventura? Or beyond?
 
Last edited:
HobeSoundDarryl said:
If it is HDD-based, there is a broad mix of experience in terms of HDD RAIDS remaining consistently attached.
Click to expand...

Depends on the enclosure and vendor. I have used some expensive Promise RAID enclosures for years and don't remember any ejects other than when I did something stupid. In contrast I've had trouble with other enclosures and software RAID. You get what you pay for.
 
Yes I know. This is an OWC enclosure, a brand that generally works very well with Apple stuff. It still works fine with Intel Macs too, those running macOS before Big Sur. No such problem for about 2 years that I've owned it.

The replacement single HDD box that does work with Studio is also from OWC... and IMO, not "expensive." No problem with it staying connected for many weeks now, but it is NOT a RAID box.

OP currently has an Intel Mac and is using a RAID box, exactly as my setup was before I purchased Studio. That RAID box may or may not stay connected to the new Studio. There's no easy way to tell except connect it after buying one and hoping for the best.

The U in USB should mean what it means… as it does on Intel Macs. OP needs good input and what I offered very well may prove to be an issue for them… or not. That’s the problem. With Monterey, some things work and some don’t. And you can’t even proceed with confidence from things that work fine on Intel Macs.

"Just works" used to mean something. Studio is "latest & greatest" and even an Apple guy like me should expect something as commonplace as USB jacks to "just work" as they have on Intel Macs and PowerPC Macs before them. I acknowledge that some things DO work and some don't... but that doesn't exactly live up to the U in USB. It's not billed as MSB for Maybe or Might work.
 
Last edited:
This is all great info! I hadn't been aware of the RAID box issues. I'm currently running a CalDigit T4, and it has been questionable for a while. They stopped updating the software after Catalina (10.15), so it's working but I'm always assuming every day that it'll probably stop for some reason. I've thought about changing over to an OWC Thunderbay 4 mini... but that'll be down the road a bit too (hopefully). Thanks for the heads up on the refurb as well! Looks like I missed it, but I'll be keeping my eyes open for sure,
 
HobeSoundDarryl said:
This is an OWC enclosure, a brand that generally works very well with Apple stuff.
Click to expand...

Actually it was an OWC hub that I had to discard as as it was continually ejecting my optical drives. But that was a long, long time ago.

jrm27 said:
I've thought about changing over to an OWC Thunderbay 4 mini.
Click to expand...

I have OWC Thunderbay 4 and 8 enclosures and haven't had any problems with them as JBODs. Not as reliable with SoftRaid though.
 
HDFan said:
Actually it was an OWC hub that I had to discard as as it was continually ejecting my optical drives. But that was a long, long time ago.



I have OWC Thunderbay 4 and 8 enclosures and haven't had any problems with them as JBODs. Not as reliable with SoftRaid though.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not using SoftRaid for the RAID controls- just macOS itself... which again, showed/shows no issue hooked to Intel Macs running macOS before BigSur using the same cable (no other variable changes but Macs and version of macOS).

This Studio is the only Mac I have running macOS Monterey and apparently its macOS RAID software has select issues with SOME- but not all- external hardware hooked to USB-C, USB-A and/or Thunderbolt (I've tried all options throughly), including trying powered and unpowered hubs in between. I've tried "redirecting" blame to everything else myself and have since worked through many cables, all of the jacks, various tips & suggestions offered from deep research all across the web, etc and I can only come back to either Mac Silicon or Monterey (and apparently Big Sur too) having issues with macOS-driven HDD (and some SSD) RAIDs.

I fully grant that some RAID hardware apparently works fine and others don't... but no way to tell which is which unless people chime in confirming their setup details and swearing that theirs definitely does work... or not. Even then, I wasn't confident about such suggestions after my own frustrating experiences until I hooked a replacement to my own Studio and found that a single drive box (Ministack STX) from OWC would remain consistently connected (for many weeks now). A big HDD in that gives me about HALF the RAID storage I have in the other (now idle) box and delivers the added "cost" of single drive speeds instead of RAID speed... something that matters to those using external RAIDs for video editing as it appears OP intends to do.

OP also references storing their entire Lightroom library on their existing RAID and pulling things they wish to edit in and out of onboard SSD. That may be complicated by files suddenly being orphaned by "unexpected ejections" while working on them or while writing them to the RAID... as I've experienced many times.

Thus, to OP, I suggest giving added thought to internal SSD size > 1TB even at Apple's incredible markups. Else, be prepared to find that your existing RAID may not work well with your new Studio and you need to toss some added money towards a replacement (that may or may not work either... leading to a sequence of trial & error fun). Through much experimentation and interactions, it seems Monterey generally "just works" with single drive options- I even dug some ancient hardware out of retirement to really test all kinds of USB hardware.

However, if you need RAID (for size and/or speed) and must replace, SSD RAIDs seem like they are working much better (but not always) than HDD RAIDs... through there are a few of the latter people claim do work: HDFan in this thread claims an expensive Prometheus HDD RAID is working fine and another guy in another thread about this claims that LACIE HDD RAIDs with Lacie-installed drives work fine too.

Since economics is a factor in your decision making, be prepared to potentially need even more than cost of Studio to cover the additional purchase. Given my own testing, I'm confident this is either a Silicon or macOS issue (very much hoping the latter) and that Apple will get around to debugging this portion of macOS to suddenly revive "unexpectedly ejected" hardware uses again. But since we can't know WHEN, the short-term solution seems to be buy more stuff- maybe having to try several different boxes to find one that works- to get by until we can confidently use our "Universal" hardware again with our latest & greatest Mac.
 
Last edited:
darngooddesign said:
64GB on the M1-Max is a BTO order so I don't think they will come up refurbished very frequently; you should be prepared to grab one.
Click to expand...
is the 64gb of memory overkill then? I've always tried to invest more in the memory when possible, but, moving from my current setup to the new architecture.. maybe I don't need that custom build option.
 
HobeSoundDarryl said:
Actually, I'm not using SoftRaid for the RAID controls- just macOS itself... which again, showed/shows no issue hooked to Intel Macs running macOS before BigSur using the same cable (no other variable changes but Macs and version of macOS).

This Studio is the only Mac I have running macOS Monterey and apparently its macOS RAID software has select issues with SOME- but not all- external hardware hooked to USB-C, USB-A and/or Thunderbolt (I've tried all options throughly), including trying powered and unpowered hubs in between. I've tried "redirecting" blame to everything else myself and have since worked through many cables, all of the jacks, various tips & suggestions offered from deep research all across the web, etc and I can only come back to either Mac Silicon or Monterey (and apparently Big Sur too) having issues with macOS-driven HDD (and some SSD) RAIDs.

I fully grant that some RAID hardware apparently works fine and others don't... but no way to tell which is which unless people chime in confirming their setup details and swearing that theirs definitely does work... or not. Even then, I wasn't confident about such suggestions after my own frustrating experiences until I hooked a replacement to my own Studio and found that a single drive box (Ministack STX) from OWC would remain consistently connected (for many weeks now). A big HDD in that gives me about HALF the RAID storage I have in the other (now idle) box and delivers the added "cost" of single drive speeds instead of RAID speed... something that matters to those using external RAIDs for video editing as it appears OP intends to do.

OP also references storing their entire Lightroom library on their existing RAID and pulling things they wish to edit in and out of onboard SSD. That may be complicated by files suddenly being orphaned by "unexpected ejections" while working on them or while writing them to the RAID... as I've experienced many times.

Thus, to OP, I suggest giving added thought to internal SSD size > 1TB even at Apple's incredible markups. Else, be prepared to find that your existing RAID may not work well with your new Studio and you need to toss some added money towards a replacement (that may or may not work either... leading to a sequence of trial & error fun). Through much experimentation and interactions, it seems Monterey generally "just works" with single drive options- I even dug some ancient hardware out of retirement to really test all kinds of USB hardware.

However, if you need RAID (for size and/or speed) and must replace, SSD RAIDs seem like they are working much better (but not always) than HDD RAIDs... through there are a few of the latter people claim do work: HDFan in this thread claims an expensive Prometheus HDD RAID is working fine and another guy in another thread about this claims that LACIE HDD RAIDs with Lacie-installed drives work fine too.

Since economics is a factor in your decision making, be prepared to potentially need even more than cost of Studio to cover the additional purchase. Given my own testing, I'm confident this is either a Silicon or macOS issue (very much hoping the latter) and that Apple will get around to debugging this portion of macOS to suddenly revive "unexpectedly ejected" hardware uses again. But since we can't know WHEN, the short-term solution seems to be buy more stuff- maybe having to try several different boxes to find one that works- to get by until we can confidently use our "Universal" hardware again with our latest & greatest Mac.
Click to expand...
Good info. I'm not very knowledgeable about RAIDS and such... I just know what has been working for me. Sounds like I'll need to do more research so I can troubleshoot correctly when the time comes.

For my Lightroom library, I never really copy that over to my internal SSD. It stays external precisely so I don't risk duping things, or havgin unsynced files.
 
Then, I'd be ready with a SINGLE drive option for Lightroom library. If the RAID you have is already seeming to give you some trouble on the Intel, I'd be pretty pessimistic of it working well with "finicky" Studio.

The good news is that big single drives are pretty cheap and I can confirm that at least OWC Ministack STX DOES maintain a consistent connection to a Studio.

The "research to troubleshoot" scenario may send you into a ton of tests- as it did me- to only arrive back at it simply not working with Studio. Of course, you can try (as I did) attempting to find SOMETHING that will make it work reliably. Nevertheless, I'd still be ready to go solo drive if you find that yours won't remain attached. Else, maybe your Lightroom works stays on the laptop and the rest moves to your new Studio.
 
jrm27 said:
is the 64gb of memory overkill then? I've always tried to invest more in the memory when possible, but, moving from my current setup to the new architecture.. maybe I don't need that custom build option.
Click to expand...
It's hard to say what you will be doing six years form now. It's possible that your MBP's RAM amount will be sufficient if your workload doesn't change, but its also possible that you will take on more complex projects since you will have a computer that can handle it.

Getting 64GB as part of a refurbished computer makes the upgrade costs easier to bear, but you probably could get by with 32GB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jrm27
HobeSoundDarryl said:
Then, I'd be ready with a SINGLE drive option for Lightroom library. If the RAID you have is already seeming to give you some trouble on the Intel, I'd be pretty pessimistic of it working well with "finicky" Studio.

The good news is that big single drives are pretty cheap and I can confirm that at least OWC Ministack STX DOES maintain a consistent connection to a Studio.

The "research to troubleshoot" scenario may send you into a ton of tests- as it did me- to only arrive back at it simply not working with Studio. Of course, you can try (as I did) attempting to find SOMETHING that will make it work reliably. Nevertheless, I'd still be ready to go solo drive if you find that yours won't remain attached. Else, maybe your Lightroom works stays on the laptop and the rest moves to your new Studio.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have a 16TB single drive that I got on a black Friday sale last year that backs up all the data on my RAID everyday... overkill, but it gives me peace of mind. But this is a good structure to think through. Thanks for the direction to think in.
 
No prob. One option for backup-minded strategy (which I've dealt with too) is flipping the approach. Now my single drive on that STX is my video scratch drive for editing, etc and my RAID plays the occasional backup role. I just hook both up to an Intel laptop to sync the new stuff on the single to the RAID until I can bring the RAID back into normal service again. That approach seems like it could work well for you too.

And again, I really like my Studio. So in spite of some of the above, I'd readily buy it again if today was launch day... though I'd prob choose MAX instead of the ULTRA in a redo. ULTRA is generally faster but not the implied 2X faster... often just a little faster in many measures. So I'd rather have that $2K back.

If you get yourself one, it should feel like an incredible leap from 2015 technology. Enjoy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jrm27
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back