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This is why carriers are no longer granting exceptions on early upgrades...

So you're telling me that carriers lose money in the long haul? It may cost them upfront, but they will make that up over the life of the contract. I have a feeling the $150ish that I pay to At&t a month is not used completely for infrastructure upgrade/upkeep. I'm sure they are still making a pretty high profit each month off of me, making up for the subsidized price that they give subscribers. I'm sure they make the subsidized money back within the first year of the contract. Of course this is all speculation. I don't have anyway to access At&t's financials.
 
redman042 said:
I think this article says it all.
I for one am learning to accept being on a 2 year upgrade cycle from now on.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is a given that carrier won't offer early upgrade in the future. It is a push and pull between carrier desire to grow by offering a better deal to attract customers from other carrier and the end user demand of Iphone. In less than one day, both ATT and Verizon already sold out their initial day allotment of Iphone 5. There is no real reason for them to do anything more. The only time a carrier like ATT or Verizon offer incentive is when order too many Iphone from Apple (yes, they are just a reseller that will stuck with unsold inventory) but worry that they may not be able to sell it all. Looks like all of them are much smarter in this cycle and did not over order their Iphone and hence no sweet deal. But in the future, one of these telecom may decide to grow their network substantially and will start to order more Iphones and offer discount again. It is capital market working.

Of course this is all speculation. I don't have anyway to access At&t's financials.

You can look at the 10K or 10Q (yearly report and quarterly report) and they are all making tons of money. It is a war between greedy telecom and a greedy phone manufacturer trying to decide how to divide the profit from a phone user. For ATT, Verizon, and Sprint, they would love to see phone manufacturer like Apple to sell them their phone at cost and let the carrier get all the profit. But unfortunately they ran into a big consumer brand like Apple where user will stick with the manufacturer rather than the network. There is a reason that only Apple and Samsung make money in smartphone space. Everyone else loss money because Telecom carriers suck out all their profit. There are too many phones out there that has no standout feature and can be easily replaced by phone from another brand.
 
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Hopsdaballa04 said:
So you're telling me that carriers lose money in the long haul? It may cost them upfront, but they will make that up over the life of the contract.
Click to expand...

They won't make it up over the life of the contract if people keep slicing it in half every time apple makes new stuff.

Which is why all this "OMG I SHOULD GET FREE STUFF BECAUSE I"M TRAPPED 4 2 MO YRS" stuff is nonsense because some people apparently have never fully finished an entire 2 yr contract with their iPhones (having gotten subsidy every year).
 
I don't know, prior to my discount, Verizon is quoting around $100/month for my service. That isn't chump change consdering the last time I paid for my own cell service, it was somewhere in the $20-$30/month range :)
 
Eddyisgreat said:
They won't make it up over the life of the contract if people keep slicing it in half every time apple makes new stuff.

Which is why all this "OMG I SHOULD GET FREE STUFF BECAUSE I"M TRAPPED 4 2 MO YRS" stuff is nonsense because some people apparently have never fully finished an entire 2 yr contract with their iPhones (having gotten subsidy every year).
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. Ultimately it's At&t's choice on what they want to do. I believe the other poster said it best. The carriers don't need to subsidize the iPhone, due to the large following it has. It still sold out on all major carriers and Apple.com in less time than it to the iPhone 4 or 4s.

If something occurs every year is it truly nonsense? I don't think it is. I have been able to upgrade on the yearly cycle myself. I can understand peoples frustration and with our free market economy they have the right to move to another carrier. If At&t didn't have such a large HSPA+ network; I would have paid the $215 and went to Verizon.
 
The 2 year is just an arbitrary timeframe. No reason to act like it's heaven sent or taught at every business school.

It could just as easily be a 1 year contract if some analyst had decided that was profitable enough.

The market demands a 1 year contract.

Even cable tv contracts are typically only 1 year.
 
Scott6666 said:
The 2 year is just an arbitrary timeframe. No reason to act like it's heaven sent or taught at every business school.

It could just as easily be a 1 year contract if some analyst had decided that was profitable enough.

The market demands a 1 year contract.

Even cable tv contracts are typically only 1 year.
Click to expand...

it used to be 1 year. changed around 2005
 
Scott6666 said:
It could just as easily be a 1 year contract if some analyst had decided that was profitable enough.

The market demands a 1 year contract.
Click to expand...

Clearly there is a disconnect between the demands of the market and what the market is actually willing to bear.

Because one can recieve service SANS contract and pay full price for the phones.
But they are unable (unwilling) to pay retail price of $650 and go to a carrier who will provide the month to month service. They are willing to get the phone for a full discount and "spread" the payments throughout the life of the term. Then you have spoilt iPhone users who want a discount, don't want to pay full retail price, aren't happy with a discount ($199 + $250 early upgrade fee) and want to renew their contract to "two years" but not finish it out.
 
Eddyisgreat said:
some people apparently have never fully finished an entire 2 yr contract with their iPhones (having gotten subsidy every year).
Click to expand...

I'm proud to be one of those people. Take advantage when you can.

I would much rather just pay for the phone full price, and not have that added into the cost of the plan, but go and buy a full price phone on Verizon, guess what, your plan is the same cost. So, screw'em where you can.
 
racer1441 said:
I would much rather just pay for the phone full price, and not have that added into the cost of the plan, but go and buy a full price phone on Verizon, guess what, your plan is the same cost. So, screw'em where you can.
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I actually agree with you on this.

That's why I get a new one every year (alternating lines). I figure, if i'm gonna pay the price for the same service why not right?

But I don't kick+scream because all of my lines aren't eligible for 100% new customer subsidy when it hasn't even been less than a year. The fact that we've gotten it so many times was a bonus.
 
oh wow 10 billion in subsidies when they are making like 700 billion in profits (not exact number, but you get the point)
 
The carriers have been trying to do 2 year contracts for a long long time. They did not have them if you had your own phone. The 2 year thing was if the carrier paid or paid for part of the phone.

You do not have to get a new phone
You do not have to have data
You do not have to have messaging

These are all options that you can take or leave.

Geez.
 
The real theme of that article is that Wall Streeters ( the people quoted in the article) have become like the general populace and want to only focus on what comes in and never expect to pay out. (it could be argued that they caused this effect in the populace not emulated it) I'm old enough to remember when they were about investing.

FACT: Phones cost money.

FACT: Customers (at least in the US) have shown that we do not want to pay full price for our phones up front. (remember the first iPhone launch?)

FACT: If the above is true and it is, then the only way to attract customers is to in effect finance the phone.

FACT: What this is really about is that they want us to pay an interest equivalent for this financing.

FACT: If these carriers don't get the message that we don't have any more to pay them and as time goes on we will have LESS, then they will one day wake up to a very sad reality.
 
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I'm on the same boat as everyone else in that I want to get all I can get from the carriers. Why not try? I work hard for my money. But I also understand how business works and I knew that these early subsidies weren't going to last forever. Even if the carriers are making big profits, they are obligated to their shareholders not to hand money to customers unless the payback justifies it. It may have been justified when AT&T's networked sucked and they lost iPhone exclusivity and had to "buy" customer loyalty for two more years, but things are different now. So I'm not going to piss and moan now that all the carriers are holding us to our two year contracts. It was inevitable.

And when you stop to think about it, upgrading iPhones every single year is a little ridiculous. This is cutting edge technology, and we are going to chuck it and replace it every single year from now until we die?? Seems a little excessive. It made some sense when the technology was still "catching up" (earlier generation iPhones had poor cameras, laggy processors, and insufficient RAM, and each new generation improved on those deficiencies) but for the last several years their phones have been damn good. Seems like a new iPhone should be fine for two years.
 
Keep it real people! AT&T's average profit has been nearly $4 billion a quarter for the past years. The only dent in that is when they took a hit b/c of T-Mobile failed acquisition. The carriers aren't losing money b/c of the iPhone they are making truckloads of money. Think about this I have 2 iPhones and my average bill is $150 a month. I barely use the phones anywhere other than on my home wi-fi. I'm lucky if I use 2 gb a month and I am probably consider a big user. Then the text message package they charge $30 for; get real it is not about them losing money it is just how much money they can fleece us for. If you don't think so you are kidding yourself.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443570904577546622104067712.html

Comments like this along with the CEO of AT&T making remarks about regretting unlimited data plan which has made them billions of dollars just really makes me mad. If Verizon would have gotten the iPhone first there is no doubt AT&T would be where Sprint is at today. The only company playing this right at this time is Sprint they understand that unlimited data really doesn't cost that much and makes people happy.

I really hope Apple starts their own cell service so we can get rid of the dog meat offering we currently have and move something that will actually be top quality.
 
codelode84 said:
Keep it real people! AT&T's average profit has been nearly $4 billion a quarter for the past years. The only dent in that is when they took a hit b/c of T-Mobile failed acquisition. The carriers aren't losing money b/c of the iPhone they are making truckloads of money. Think about this I have 2 iPhones and my average bill is $150 a month. I barely use the phones anywhere other than on my home wi-fi. I'm lucky if I use 2 gb a month and I am probably consider a big user. Then the text message package they charge $30 for; get real it is not about them losing money it is just how much money they can fleece us for. If you don't think so you are kidding yourself.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443570904577546622104067712.html

Comments like this along with the CEO of AT&T making remarks about regretting unlimited data plan which has made them billions of dollars just really makes me mad. If Verizon would have gotten the iPhone first there is no doubt AT&T would be where Sprint is at today. The only company playing this right at this time is Sprint they understand that unlimited data really doesn't cost that much and makes people happy.

I really hope Apple starts their own cell service so we can get rid of the dog meat offering we currently have and move something that will actually be top quality.
Click to expand...

Except sprints data is pure garbage...Unlimted garbage is still garbage. Nothing is functional when out and about because the data isn't fast enough to load a map or stream pandora. Sprint sucks because they are stingy buttholes that won't spend money to make money.
 
You guys are complaining about 2 years? You have no right to complain. We have to put up with 3 year contracts.
 
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