Thoughts on full-size keyboards

[magic_mouse_max]

As someone who codes daily to make a living, I pay close attention to how I use input devices to avoid hurting my body. With that in mind, I felt a bit sad seeing the following image on Apple's website (https://www.apple.com/se/mac-mini/). It says a lot about the current full-size Magic Keyboard design and its potential ergonomic impact on our bodies.

As we can see, the full-size keyboard isn't centrally aligned with the monitor - It's shifted slightly to the left due to the arrow keys and numpad. This results in a slight but noticeable shift in users' body positioning. Some turn their bodies slightly, which can result in a small turn of the neck; others move their arms and shoulders slightly to reach the keyboard, which can put extra strain on one of the wrists.

The right arm angle to reach the mouse is also worth noting. Once again, the extra keys push the mouse further away from the body's centre, forcing the arm to fan out in order to reach it. This position could also add strain to the arm and shoulder over the long term.

Now, are these really issues? Yes and no. I'm not an expert so I can't give professional health advice. But, if someone uses this setup for prolonged periods without proper care and rest, then these added strains could potentially compound into larger long-term health issues.

Lastly, I'd like to add that I used full-size keyboards exclusively until my late-30s and didn't notice anything unusual. But ever since I entered my 40s, I've started noticing these details. I've also spoken to several coworkers in their 20s, and they don't find full-sized keyboards to e an issue. So, take all of the above with a grain of salt. However, I do wish that Apple at least tone down the "pro" aura from their marketing of full-size keyboards, because larger isn't necessarily better in this context.

 

[smirking]

I can answer this as I have a lot of ergonomics knowledge from my original career. The answer to almost any question about ergonomics is the same. "It depends."

Like you, I had no problem using a full sized keyboard when I was younger, but I've avoided them for some time now and have discomfort now if I use them for long. A few things changed. I've lost some flexibility, there's more wear and tear on my joints, I spend more time at my computer, and I use the mouse more.

Posture and technique can greatly affect how your body experiences devices. Mimic the posture of the man in the photo. Now slump forward like you're a hunchback. Keep your elbow pinned to your side. Pivot your right hand in and out in an arc like you're reaching for the space bar and then reaching back for a mouse that's placed too far away. Reset yourself and now stand fully upright with your shoulders pulled back slightly and do the same. You should now be able to reach further and more comfortably.

If you're young and/or only use a computer for a few hours a day, you could probably do anything and it'll be fine. If you have no pain or discomfort with what you're doing, don't worry about it. Anyone who does have discomfort, even if it's mild and doesn't interfere with their work should pay attention to that as a warning sign of future problems to come.

So how do you right yourself? That's way beyond the scope of a single post. I refer back to the standard answer about ergonomics. It depends, but it starts and ends with listening to your body.

If you have the financial means to do so, experiment with different devices to figure out how it affects your body. You may be surprised that something works for you, but not for other people. Just about everyone hated the ultra-flat butterfly keyboards and found them painful in more ways than one. I had the opposite experience (which surprised me too). It helped me tweak my typing mechanics and allowed me end 10 years of daily hand and wrist pain.

It all depends on the person, the task, and how you use a device.

 

[xraydoc]

I can't really use full-sized 104+ key keyboards anymore. I find them uncomfortable -- it requires stretching my right arm way off to the side to have enough mouse room, or I've got to slide the keyboard to the left and put it at a slant, which makes typing more awkward.

There's two shared PCs at work that I need to use (one or the other each day, depending on work assignments), usually for most of the day about three out of five days per week. They have typical Dell/HP full-sized crappy membrane keyboards on them, so I've started bringing my own 60% low-profile Nuphy Air60HE to work with me when I need to use one. I leave a USB-C cable attached to each one for easy plug-in. That little thing is so much more comfortable than the normal keyboard. It's great to have the whole keyboard right in front of me.

For my private PC at work in my private office, I use either a custom Tofu60 2.0 HHKB or a customized Nuphy Gem80 TKL (mostly depending on my mood as each one has different mechanical switches).

On my WFH PC, I usually use a Nuphy Air75v2 (a surprisingly good and relatively inexpensive 75% keyboard, though I keep eyeing some others). I'll switch to a customized Keychron Q5 Max (1800/96% layout) when I'm needing extensive use of the numerical keypad, which is usually when I'm working a periodic weekend on call. The Q5 Max is about as wide of a keyboard as I'd ever want to use, and it's still a good bit shorter than a full-size (imagine a standard full-size but without the center nav cluster).

On my home Mac, I'll switch between one of several customized keyboards, usually either a Nuphy Gem80, a Keychron Q4 Pro (60%), or a Keychron Q60 (HHKB).

I do suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists and get occasional episodes maybe once every 6 weeks or so, and though I usually take good precautions while working at the computer (good wrist support, proper posture, etc.), I will occasionally switch to a flat low-profile Air96v2 (or use the Air60HE) at home or work if I'm having a flair. Happens occasionally if I spend several full days in a row doing extensive typing work for long periods of time.

 

[MikeDr206]

I’ve thought about this issue a lot, and ultimately moved to a ten keyless (TKL) keyboard. I still need the end, home, and cursor keys in their configuration in a full size keyboard, which a TKL preserves.

I can’t say it’s really helped with my shoulder pain that’s resulted from mousing for 20+ years… but it can’t hurt.

I use a Keychron K1 Max

 

[MacGizmo]

Like everyone else, I love the smaller keyboards for the ability to allow me to have the mouse closer to avoid stretching my arm too far off to the side. But I love, and can't break the habit of, using the Num keypad – I also make extensive use of those extra F-Keys on extended keyboards.

The difference in the amount of time it takes me in daily use to start to "feel" some level of discomfort when using the two keyboard styles is noticeable but not to the point where I'm ready to chuck the full size keyboard in the bin.

To be honest, I was able to get rid of a LOT of the shoulder and arm pain when I got a better chair, and more importantly, an adjustable height desk where I can perfectly adjust the positions for my arms so they're at a better angle while typing/mousing.

Also having my displays on VESA arms so the height of my displays has helped greatly.

 

[smirking]

Like everyone else, I love the smaller keyboards for the ability to allow me to have the mouse closer to avoid stretching my arm too far off to the side. But I love, and can't break the habit of, using the Num keypad – I also make extensive use of those extra F-Keys on extended keyboards.

I have two tweaks that allow me to have things both ways. I programmed some shortcuts so that when I hold down a modifier key, the keys below my right hand become the number pad keys. This works better if you have an ortholinear keyboard instead of the usual staggered qwerty style keyboard, but with a little practice you can get used to it.

Before I got used to doing this, I kept a separate external numpad around that I'd have connected to my computer, but placed out of the way so if I started doing heavy spreadsheet work and such, I'd just grab it and pull it toward me.

 

[kasakka]

Like everyone else, I love the smaller keyboards for the ability to allow me to have the mouse closer to avoid stretching my arm too far off to the side. But I love, and can't break the habit of, using the Num keypad – I also make extensive use of those extra F-Keys on extended keyboards.

You could just move to a 75% size keyboard and get a separate numpad that you can put wherever you want.

Alternatively if the main keyboard is programmable, you could program a layer that replicates the layout of the numpad when you hold down a modifier key that activates the layer. Obviously you won't have labels on your keys for that.

As for me, I haven't used a full size keyboard for years. I find the numpad and mostly every key to the right of the Enter key to be largely useless, or something that could be moved to a layer on a programmable, smaller keyboard.