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Thunderbolt Raid for new RMBP

R

Rmafive

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 25, 2008
296
1
Richmond, Virginia
Hey guys,

I just purchased my first Thunderbolt equipped computer! I am ready to do away with my slow fw800 drives I use for Aperture and Time Machine (yay!). I am looking to get the most speed when working on pictures in aperture and I have a few questions. I was thinking about a 6tb Lacie 2big in raid 0 for the ultimate speed, but then I realized that I would be leaving my data unprotected. I also would like to backup my 512gb computer drive as well. Then I was considering possibly getting one 4tb raid 0 2big and another 4tb 2big in raid 0 for backing up my computer and the other thunderbolt 2big (with my Aperture library on it). Would this be the most economical solution if I am looking for the most performance out of Aperture?
 
Had you considering the LaCie option for the primary storage, then having a cheap USB backup of everything that runs clones of the LaCie and Time Machine for your computer during the night?
 
blevins321 said:
Had you considering the LaCie option for the primary storage, then having a cheap USB backup of everything that runs clones of the LaCie and Time Machine for your computer during the night?
Click to expand...

I guess I really do not need thunderbolt for my backups. Once the initial backup is done thunderbolt wouldn't affect it much.

----------

I'm thinking about picking up a lacie 4tb usb 3.0 2big for about $400 on ebay for backing up both drives and then buying a 6tb thunderbolt version (which I will probably never fill up) for my aperture library and other stuff.
 
I went with the 4TB Thunderbolt Graid combined with a 4TB Gdrive for backup. Best performance and most reliable drives for the money.
 
Last edited:
I'm in a similar position. However I'm not very happy with the available thunderbolt RAID enclosures mostly due to price. The new MacBook Pros also support USB3 and there're a number of USB3 enclosures that do a great job for a much lower price. Have you considered one of those?
 
bump....
I have the same question... looking for some of the forum's collective wisdom. Same goals as the OP.
 
Have you considered the Promise Pegasus in a RAID 5 configuration?

You'll have speed and continuous backup in 1 enclosure, 1 Thunderbolt connection, 1 power connector.
If 1 drive fails just pull it and replace with another and keep going.
 
mmomega said:
Have you considered the Promise Pegasus in a RAID 5 configuration?

You'll have speed and continuous backup in 1 enclosure, 1 Thunderbolt connection, 1 power connector.
If 1 drive fails just pull it and replace with another and keep going.
Click to expand...

RAID is not a backup substitute. If you're keeping working files on a RAID enclosure, then you still need to create backups on separate storage. If the whole enclosure dies (which can happen) then you're most likely out of luck, even with RAID 5.
 
Promise Pegasus R6

I have the Pegasus R6 connected to my MacBook Air and Apple Cinema Display. I have the R6 in a RAID 5 configuration and I've it partitioned into various sized partitions. I'm mainly using it to store my digital photos which I have around 200k images in conjunction with Adobe Lightroom 4. Speed is incredible and fantastic to use.

The R6 gives me a degree of redundancy, but I regularly clone the photos partition using SuperDuper onto an external USB HDD for offsite backup and disaster recovery. In fact, I've also got another photos clone HDD which I keep at home too. I repeat the same procedure for the other partitions on the R6. I've also got one partition dedicated to a Time Machine backup.

Just remember, a RAID configuration isn't a backup, it just gives you redundancy if one of your hard drives in the RAID were to fail (Assuming RAID 5). Ideally, keep 3 copies of your images, and one offsite.

As a photographer, you will be amazed at the speed of Thunderbolt, whichever TB solution you choose.

Sam.
 
eclipsetime said:
bump....
I have the same question... looking for some of the forum's collective wisdom. Same goals as the OP.
Click to expand...

Did you take a look at what I ended up choosing? I love the GRaid with thunderbolt for its insane performance! I then chose a cheaper USB 2.0 drive for backing up my internal drive and my GRaid. The backup drive doesn't need to be extremely fast. I considered the promise Pegasus, but it was a little out of my price range.
 
Thunderbolt vs USB 3: Performance is looking about the same. But most USB bridge chipsets suck and don't pass through all ATA commands. If SMART testing and monitoring, and Secure Erase are important to you, you need to find a product with a proper chipset. Some bridge chipsets that do work are listed here, although most are USB 2. Otherwise it's primarily a cost question, between Thunderbolt and USB.

RAID 0:
I think anyone with a lot of important data is poorly served by having large RAID 0 arrays holding all of their data. Go with smaller but fast as you can afford local storage for working files. But keep the bulk of your stuff on more reliable, but slower, network storage.

Big arrays take a long time to rebuild, many hours for one disk, to days for an entire array. In RAID 0 if one disk fails, the whole thing has to be rebuilt from backup and that will take days for any appreciably sized array. So if you're (stubbornly) considering a large such array anyway, it should be RAID 10. This is not for backup, but to keep the data available and reduce rebuild time in the event of a disk failure. Disk Utility can even do nested RAID (i.e. first you mirror pairs of disks, then you stripe them together).

RAID 5 suffers from write performance penalty, and the write hole problem making consumer implementations with many disks statistically ripe for total array loss in a single disk failure. RAID 6 suffers write performance as well, but does not have the write hole problem.


Anyway, I think it's a big mistake people make buying very large and fast single point arrays. If you want that and resilience, prepare to pay. That's the realm of 10GigE NAS, ZFS RAIDZ2 plus SSD cache for L2ARC/ZIL, and remote (off-site) replication.
 
what does a set-up like that cost fully configured?

Rmafive said:
Did you take a look at what I ended up choosing? I love the GRaid with thunderbolt for its insane performance! I then chose a cheaper USB 2.0 drive for backing up my internal drive and my GRaid. The backup drive doesn't need to be extremely fast. I considered the promise Pegasus, but it was a little out of my price range.
Click to expand...
 
sam67uk said:
I have the Pegasus R6 connected to my MacBook Air and Apple Cinema Display. I have the R6 in a RAID 5 configuration and I've it partitioned into various sized partitions. I'm mainly using it to store my digital photos which I have around 200k images in conjunction with Adobe Lightroom 4. Speed is incredible and fantastic to use.

The R6 gives me a degree of redundancy, but I regularly clone the photos partition using SuperDuper onto an external USB HDD for offsite backup and disaster recovery. In fact, I've also got another photos clone HDD which I keep at home too. I repeat the same procedure for the other partitions on the R6. I've also got one partition dedicated to a Time Machine backup.

Just remember, a RAID configuration isn't a backup, it just gives you redundancy if one of your hard drives in the RAID were to fail (Assuming RAID 5). Ideally, keep 3 copies of your images, and one offsite.

As a photographer, you will be amazed at the speed of Thunderbolt, whichever TB solution you choose.

Sam.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Pegasus is a great unit. I use an R4 which is enough for my needs. I have it set up for RAID10, for the reasons that murphychris stated.

The one piece of advice I would give is to NOT think of your clones as a substitute for backup. The problem with clones is that there is no history... so once an undetected error occurs in your database, it gets cloned and the history is gone.

I personally do the following:

1) Backup everything every hour to a 3TB time capsule (local backup)
2) Backup everything every 15 minutes to the cloud for disaster recovery using Crashplan+

Both of those are fully automatic, and continue day/night, 365 days a year. I never shut off my iMac. I have two real backups... including full history for all of my data. I can turn back the clock at any time... and no additional backup is necessary

However... given that I am on the lunatic fringe of backup... I do one additional thing for my media,

3) Whenever my A3 library has a significant change (like completing a big project)... I will make a clone of my A3 library onto a portable drive, and rotate it with an identical drive at my work office. Hence, I always have a "fairly recent" A3 library to continue my work in an emergency.

BY FAR... Item #3 is the least important aspect of my backup strategy.

/Jim
 
G-Safe

I purchased a G-Safe 4TB dual drive set up. Running in raid 1. Partitioned 500GB for time machine and 1.5TB for storage. When I purchased from B&H Photo, they offered extra hot swappable 2TB drives for $90. Of course I jumped on that. About every two weeks, I swap one of the drives with the spare and bring it to my office. That way if one drive fails, I'm covered. If the unit is destroyed by fire / water, I'm covered. G-Safe's are no longer made, so if you can find one in old stock somewhere, grab it. They are great drives.
 
what about CalDigitVR in RAID1?
through USB3, you get almost 180MB/s
and it's cheaper than Thunderbolt RAID.
 
watergun said:
Please check the max supported size of HDD supported by R4/R6. I thought it was 2TB but I am not sure now.
Click to expand...

I talked to them today and they said they have tested them and they work, but they are "not yet" on their AVL list so I could be without support if something happened.

That kind of made it sound like they work fine and are going to be added to the list.

Anyone know how often they update the list?

It looks like it was last updated in 2011 and only lists 2 hard drives right now.
 
Lance-AR said:
The last firmware update from Pegasus increased the support to 4TB drives. I haven't seen anyone use the 3TB reds but it should work.
Click to expand...

I wish they had told me that on the phone last week. They said no when I had a conference call with their engineers.

If I had known they updated their support to 4TB drives I would have ordered it then.

I don't doubt they did as it seems odd they wouldn't after this long, but the people I talked to said no to anything other than 2TB until their compatibility list is updated.

I can't find any recent updated list or firmware on their website.

Do they not post updates there? Are you downloading yours through the Pegasus interface?

Thanks.
 
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