I have heard of "paint by numbers" it just doesn't make sense in the context. So if Metal isn't paint by numbers for you, then what about DX12, OpenGL, Vulkan and GNM? What features are paint by numbers for you, what are not? I don't see a difference for these APIs when it comes to "paint by numbers". Some have more boilerplate code than others. I don't see why someone would pick one API over the other unless it's for platform specific reasons or porting from A to B.
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Time to fork MacOS back to x86 with a partner like Sony driving?
- Thread starter Imhotep397
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Apple and Sony are currently negotiating a gaming deal. It could still fall through, but if it happens I called it first when everyone said Sony and Apple would never consider even being in the same room for a gaming deal. Epic's litigation win against Apple likely put them in a difficult spot and they are now likely losing a substantial amount gaming micro-transaction money so it only makes sense for them to seek out more traditional games sales expansion to bring their gaming revenue back up. Sony is looking for deep pocketed allies and they really want to eliminate whatever Windows dependency they may have left since MS has taken the "abusive partner" label to the extreme.
Assuming this is true (currently very debatable given the "source"), I could see two paths this could take. Beyond what most people are assuming (Sony porting titles to Mac OS), there's another possibility that could make sense - building the next PlayStation around ARM, perhaps even a custom-designed SoC for Sony. In that scenario, porting from console to the Mac become very trivial and sets Sony up with a major point of distinction between itself and Microsoft, and could also lead to the next Sony console being smaller and more streamlined than the PS5. Between Rosetta 2 and the Game Porting Toolkit Apple already has the pieces in place for converting existing titles from x86 to ARM.
Could Sony scrap an x86 PS6 this "late" in the design phase and still come out by 2027?
I don't think so, because Sony would have to build a platform, get developer kits ready and distributed, and also allow time for the AAA developers to actually build quality titles for the next-generation console. Assuming AMD still has the contract for the PS5 successor, there's probably language in the contract that would provide for significant penalties for a breach by either party. However, this would not prevent Sony from building a new handheld gaming device while still honoring existing contracts with respect to the next Playstation. That could actually be a smarter move in the long run given the efficiencies of Apple Silicon compared to the AMD chips used in the Steam Deck, ROG Ally, Lenovo Legion Go, etc.
After reading recent news of Apple and Sony working to get PSVR2 Sense controller support for Apple Vision Pro it makes me believe the rumors about Sony and Apple working towards that broader strategic partnership may be true after all.
www.theverge.com
Apple and Sony are working on Vision Pro support for PSVR2 controllers
But controller support doesn’t mean more games.
www.theverge.com
I agree that that probably won't happen, but Sony is committed to 10-year console cycles now which would mean that PS6 won't be released until 2030 and 5-6 years from now is a long time in technology development time so it's not out of the question. Playstation has a pretty long history of growing partnerships slowly over time. What I suspect will happen is that the rumored modular Playstation 5 portable and standalone hardware for a modular PSVR3 that will apparently use the same screen will both be running on Apple Silicon with Sony integrating their PlaystationOS with iOS and Metal. Once that is successful they will have a foundation to build the PlaystationOS either through MacOS or iOS for PS7. Whether AMD would be involved or not I don't know. I do think that if Sony drops AMD I would expect AMD to get into the game console race directly with their own game console.
Sony using Apple hardware for the next (or any) PlayStation has as much chance of happening as Apple buying Nintendo (and it not be a hostile takeover).
I’d love to be proven wrong.
Sony apparently rejected Intel CPUs over potential backwards compatibility problems, but it's very likely they wouldn't have that issue MacOS/ARM.
PS6 rumor: Intel reportedly rejected for the next-gen console — here's why
Sony doesn't want to risk losing backward compatibility.
mashable.com
Sony does have a fair bit of proprietary low level customized RDNA code that's seemingly unique to AMD hardware, but AMD is already integrating with ARM CPUs though. Maybe an Apple/AMD reunion is in the cards.
AMD teams up with Arm to unveil AI chip family that does preprocessing, inference and postprocessing on one silicon — but you will have to wait more than 12 months to get actual products
Versal AI Edge Series Gen 2 is expected late 2025
Do we seriously think Sony could get Apple hardware powerful enough to play PS5Pro games via backwards compatibility and still have that hardware come in at $399/$499 (in 2028 because that is the same number of years between the PS4Pro and PS5)?
While it's no guarantee, PlayStation for the last eight years of VR tech development have had little to no interest in MR/AR and in the same week News of Sony working with Apple to bring Sense controllers to Apple Vision Pro information about Sony incorporating hand tracking in the PSVR2 SDK for future use when Apple has fairly advanced hand tracking code in their AVP HMD. I suspect there's been a swap collaboration:
mixed-news.com
Sony shows off hand tracking for Playstation VR 2
Sony surprises with a hand tracking demo for Playstation VR 2, raising hopes for a new PSVR 2 feature.
mixed-news.com
Well...Sony movies 120M consoles vs. a couple million desktop Macs which will substantially reduce component pricing. Also, the new Mac Mini is already under $600.
In 4 years we think Apples base computer will be as strong as the M4 Max, which is basically as fast as a PS5?
Ehhhh...The "Power" of the PS5 is a bit murkier than CPU vs. CPU discussion as a lot of the functionality is in the between the GPU and high levels of software optimization to take advantage of that. I don't believe the AMD Zen2 CPU that's in the PS5 is dramatically faster than an M2 in every measurable area, but on the GPU side of functionality it's a different story.
Personally, I suspect the little back and forth of Apple helping bring Sony's Sense controllers to the Apple Vision Pro and Sony integrating Apple's hand tracking software (potentially) running on AMD hardware (PS5) that Sony stealth dropped over last weekend isn't a coincidence and in the background each is taking baby steps evaluating the other's technology, methods, practices etc. with longer term larger goals in mind.
It seems like Sony may be trying to convince Apple to bring AMD GPU tech back into Apple fold so that a transition of the PlaystationOS for console and mobile to Apple Silicone are smoother since Sony has so many years of investment of R&D developing their graphics standards built around AMD GPU tech, but this is all speculation on my part.
Sony very much wants to release a portable console, but it's improbable that they will do that if they have to use a separate PlaystationOS and hardware than what's in their console that will have a separate library that they would have to support. Apple has a distinct advantage in developing scalable, modular OS' and hardware that can cover mobile to desktop class systems. Apple wants a legitimate stake in the gaming business to cover the lost revenue from no longer being able to lock app/software microtransactions and their revenue split of them to their app store exclusively (previously like 70% of Apple's total annual revenue I think.).
If Macs have exclusive access to everything Playstation has it would grow their desktop market substantially, which is something they haven't seen in a couple of decades on top of being associated with the global brand leader in games publishing and distribution.
I was really referring to the GPU as that is going to be the major speed bump in running any PS5/PS5Pro game. Not saying the CPU doesn't mater, but it isn't as important as the GPU is.
From a portable game perspective Sony has used ARM with the Vita. They didn't have a bunch of developer support for it though. IMO the only way the new PS handheld would do well is if it can play existing games, so that developers don't have to make specific versions of the game for the hardware.
Correct, and the only way that will happen is if they can run essentially the same OS on both sets of hardware like Apple does with MacOS and iOS.
That's certainly a possibility. With the persistent rumors of Sony pursuing building a handheld and their past insistence that they would never pursue a two tiered system requiring two completely separate ecosystems again if they do it it probably would be with Apple or they'll find a way to shrink the current PlaystationOS for mobile. BSD is CPU agnostic anyway so ARM or x86 doesn't really matter.
AMD Strix Halo could probably fit the bill, though it would probably need to have a different memory controller to support higher bandwidth (GDDR6) RAM.
AMD already has multiple GDDR6 controllers on the market. Both the PS5/PS5 Pro and Xbox Series S/X use GDDR6, and AMD has been shipping graphics parts that support GDDR6 since at least 2019. Given that the APUs used in both the XBox and PS5 are custom and AMD's use of chiplet designs in their processors, they would have a far easier time of updating the memory controller than Intel would.