Two Course Tracks: ASP.NET vs Flash MX

[Earendil]

For Jan term I am taking CS 301, or "Web Application Development".
I'm currently a Freshmen who has only completed CS 171, Or the C++ language up to the *basics* of arrays, classes, and objects.

There are two tracks for the current class I am in. Because we get a lot of kids taking the class that aren't in the CS department, they split the class between ASP.NET and Flash MX, depending on programming experience and what each student desires to learn.

My question for the Mac community is, WHAT is ASP.NET?! I've been around the block as far as nerds go, but haven't ever heard of ASP.NET, and after my Profs short description, I feel I should have. Is it a Windows proprietary scripting language? Is it possible to write ASP.NET code on my Powerbook? I survived C++ on my Laptop fine, in fact I was one of the only students that had an IDE environment on his computer (*kisses xCode*). Now I am unsure of which track to take. I'm positive that ASP.NET will serve my future carriers better, but I'm taking this class so I can learn a skill that can be used NOW, not later. And let's face it, if I can't use ASP.NET on my Apple computer, I'm probably not going to go to the labs and spend my ha ha "free time" fiddling with ASP.NET, Flash MX is far more likely as that is something I have invested in, and have some experience in.

Any Apple folks out there want to give an opinion?
Thanks in Advance guys
-Tyler

PS
Of course I could ask my profesor what he thinks, but he retired from Microsoft, so I'm not so sure he's gonna know jack. He didn't even list Safari under "tabbed browsers" in his huge list of browsers, though he himself uses FireFox, so maybe he isn't completely evil.

 

[jeremy.king]

ASP.NET is Microsofts newest version of Active Server Pages using their .NET framework with support of more than 25 languages and supposedly less code than its earlier versions. Obviously can't be run on a mac (almost true, an outdated version of their CLR exists, but is most likely out of date), but would definitely cater toward someone who will eventually build web based applications in a Microsoft environment. Basically .NET and J2EE dominate the enterprise market. Personally I chose the Java route - which definitely appeals to mac developers, but everyone has a choice and preference. Are you really going to let your platform of choice determine your career? Is your goal money or happiness

For more information check out http://asp.net/Default.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1

 

[zimv20]

it's amazing to me what passes for "computer science" these days. do any CS programs teach the theory of computability anymore? or turing machines?

has anyone who is currently in a CS program been taught the idea of NP complete? how about the predicate calculus?

 

[Earendil]

ASP.NET is Microsofts newest version of Active Server Pages using their .NET framework with support of more than 25 languages and supposedly less code than its earlier versions. Obviously can't be run on a mac (almost true, an outdated version of their CLR exists, but is most likely out of date), but would definitely cater toward someone who will eventually build web based applications in a Microsoft environment. Basically .NET and J2EE dominate the enterprise market. Personally I chose the Java route - which definitely appeals to mac developers, but everyone has a choice and preference. Are you really going to let your platform of choice determine your career? Is your goal money or happiness

For more information check out http://asp.net/Default.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1

I've made a point of learning the inner workings of a PC by programming on them more than on my Mac in my dorm just because I know that many future carrier options will be closed doors if I depend on my Mac. That said, I won't be using ASP.NET in the next 3.5 years of my life as far as my "CS Major" goes, only in my free time do I see myself keeping up that skill. Like I said, if I have to travel tot he lab to ticker with ASP.NET (which it sounds like I would have to) than I probably won't at all. Flash MX on the other hand I own, and can fiddle with as I work on my own site.

I can take the class again in 2 years, as a junior with a bit more object oriented programming under my belt. So I should be ok. Thanks for the link, King!

~Tyler

 

[Earendil]

it's amazing to me what passes for "computer science" these days. do any CS programs teach the theory of computability anymore? or turing machines?

has anyone who is currently in a CS program been taught the idea of NP complete? how about the predicate calculus?

While I won't pretend to understand exactly what it is you're talking about (I'm a freshy after all), perhaps you are talking about Computer Engineering? They are two different majors these days.

What is Predicate Calculus? I know that about half my CS requirements are in the Math department
Not looking forward to upper level Calc and Linear Algebra...

~Tyler

 

[Earendil]

Oh, and this class isn't a requirement for graduating B.S. in CS. It is a fun class offered in Jan term every other year, for people CS majors wanting to pick up ASP.NET, or web design people from the art department that would like to know more advanced Flash MX and the scripting behind it.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if Computer Science as a major hasn't morphed and changed just a little with time

~Tyler

 

[D0ct0rteeth]

Speaking from experience, you absolutely cannot do .NET development on a powerbook.

I also believe that you can learn 80% of what flash has to offer in a month, while .NET is a much more advanced and valuable skill taking a much deeper commitment and understanding of web development.. but by all means do not be afraid to learn (thats what college is for), and I seriously recommend you learn both, and if one doesn't get you all hot and bothered dont persue it.

But at least you wont regret it. Learning flash on your own is actually easy. .NET for better or worse is the future of the internet, and it takes a massive undertaking to accomplish solo.

- Doc

 

[jeremy.king]

it's amazing to me what passes for "computer science" these days. do any CS programs teach the theory of computability anymore? or turing machines?

has anyone who is currently in a CS program been taught the idea of NP complete? how about the predicate calculus?

I think the Math foundations of computing are being lost as CS programs evolve. Quite frankly I'm not sure I've really applied most of that knowledge to real world problems anyway and I was a Math AND Computer Science major. Seems nowadays that schools are pushing more toward getting a solid developer/programmer out the door rather than one who understands the complexities of how a computer actually works and with exception of certification tests and low level programming, you don't really *need* to know all the details. Encapsulation at it's best

 

[zimv20]

While I won't pretend to understand exactly what it is you're talking about (I'm a freshy after all), perhaps you are talking about Computer Engineering?

i am not. i am talking about computer science as an actual science, based on mathematics.

what passes for "computer science" degrees a lot of time is simply vocational training in how to be a programmer. and i'm being kind there, as being a real programmer entails a lot more than being proficient in a language.

What is Predicate Calculus?

the predicate calculus is a logic theory which forms the basis of all programming.

 

[zimv20]

I think the Math foundations of computing are being lost as CS programs evolve.

i would say "devolve".

Quite frankly I'm not sure I've really applied most of that knowledge to real world problems anyway and I was a Math AND Computer Science major.

i worked 11 years as a programmer, designer and software architect. very little of my computer science degree was directly applicable in my day to day job, but that degree provided the basis for my being good at my job.

Seems nowadays that schools are pushing more toward getting a solid developer/programmer out the door

but they don't, from my experience. by and large, they push out people familiar w/ a couple technologies which will be irrelevant in a couple years. there are exceptions, of course, but when was the last time you saw a programmer solve a problem w/ a B-tree, or write an efficient sort mechanism?

i submit that good "programmers" are adept at software engineering, which includes an understanding of and proficiency at all phases of development, including requirements gathering, design, testing and maintenance. are these things being taught anywhere? if so, i haven't seen it.

rather, these skills are acquired on the job. and the people who become proficient at them don't always have a CS degree and often come to the table w/ more skills than a language survey.

i find the best programmers:
1. are curious
2. are arrogant
3. are always going back to fix old code
4. exhibit symptoms of OCD

if that person also has a CS degree based on mathematics and theory, and not asp.net and php, i find they'll be that much better at what they do.

/rant